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Hi 94,
Biblically what you said about 6 p.m. and 6a.m needs to be inlined with scriptures, or else it's all assumption. Therefore lets examined what the scripture says..
Deut.16:6
But at the place which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice the passover at even, AT THE GOING DOWN OF THE SUN, at the season that thou camest forth out of Egypt.
This clearly shows that the lamb was ALWAYS slain as the SUN WAS GOING DOWN. God does things exactly on time! The time is once a year, at night, in the beginning of the 14th of Abib—after the sun has set!
The crucifixion day was called “the preparation,” or day before “the sabbath” (Matt. 27:62; Mark 15:42; Luke 23:54). This day ended at sunset, according to Bible (Lev. 23:32).
Jesus cried out soon after “the ninth hour” or three o'clock in the afternoon (Matt. 27:46-50; Mark 15:34-37; Luke 23:44-46).
Yet Jesus was buried before this same day ended — before sunset (Matt. 27:57; Luke 23:52-54; John 19:42). John adds, “There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day.” According to the laws observed by the Jews all dead bodies must be buried BEFORE the beginning of a Sabbath or feast day. Jesus was buried BEFORE sunset on the same day He died. He died shortly after 3 p.m.
Therefore — notice carefully — the burial of Christ's body was in the late afternoon! It was between 3 p.m. and sunset as these scriptures prove.
And since the resurrection had to occur at the same time of day, three days later, the resurrection of Christ occurred, not at sunrise, but in the late afternoon, near sunset. Startling as this fact may be, it is the plain Bible truth!
“For that sabbath day was an high day” (John 19:14, 31) Just what is a “high day”? Ask any Jew! He will tell you it is one of the annual holy days, or feast days The Israelites observed seven of these every year — every one called a Sabbath! Annual Sabbaths fall on certain annual calendar dates, and on different days of the week in different years, just like the Roman holidays now observed. These Sabbaths might fall on Monday, on Thursday, or on Sunday.
If you will notice the following texts, you will see these annual holy days were all called Sabbath days: Leviticus 16:31; 23:24, 26-32, 39.
Notice Matthew 26:2: “Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.” And if you will follow through this chapter you will see that Jesus was crucified on the Passover!
And what was the Passover? In the twelfth chapter of Exodus you will find the story of the original Passover. The children of Israel killed the lambs, and struck the blood over the doorposts and on the side posts of their houses, and wherever the blood had thus been applied the death angel passed over that house, sparing it from death. Following the Passover was a holy convocation or annual Sabbath.
Observe the dates: “And in the fourteenth day of the first month is THE PASSOVER of the Lord. And in the fifteenth day of this month is the FEAST” (Num. 28:16-17).
The Passover lamb, killed every year on the 14th of the first month called “Abib,” was a type of Christ, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world. Christ is our Passover, sacrificed for us (I Cor. 5:7).
Jesus was slain on the very same day the Passover had been slain every year. He was crucified on the 14th of Abib, the first Hebrew month of the year. And this day, the Passover, was the day before — and the preparation for — the Feast day, or annual high day Sabbath, which occurred on the 15th of Abib.
It's clear with Mark and Luke the tomb was empty BEFORE there was even light, therefore we cannot account Sunday as a day, he was already risen.
And since we know Christ was buried late Wednesday afternoon, and that the resurrection took place at the same time of day three days later, we now know the resurrection of Christ occurred late Saturday afternoon.
The Sabbath day ended at sunset. It was late on that day, before the beginning of the first day of the week. It was not, then, a Sunday resurrection at all. It was a Sabbath resurrection!
Notice that in Matthew 28:6, the angel of the Lord gives this testimony, which we now present as evidence. “He is not here: for he is risen, as he said.” And He certainly did not rise AS He said unless He rose at the precise TIME that He had said! So we have the proof of the angel of the Lord, recorded in the sacred Word of God that Jesus did fulfill His sign — He was three days and three nights in the earth — He did rise Sabbath afternoon, and not on Sunday morning.
Another proof that Christ was in the grave the full length of time He expected to be is found in I Corinthians 15:3-4: “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures.”
His death and burial were according to the Scriptures — not contrary to them.
The third day following His Wednesday burial was the Sabbath; three full days spent in the grave ended Saturday afternoon just prior to sunset, not Sunday morning.
Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, the middle day of the week. He died shortly after 3 p.m. that afternoon; was buried before sunset Wednesday evening. Now count the three days and three nights. His body was Wednesday, Thursday and Friday nights in the grave — three nights. It also was there through the daylight part of Thursday, Friday and Saturday — three days. He rose Saturday the Sabbath — late afternoon, shortly before sunset, at the same time of day that He was buried!
It is significant that in Daniel's prophecy of the “seventy weeks” (Dan. 9:24-27), Jesus was to be cut off “in the midst of the week.” While this prophecy has the application of a day for a year, so that this 70th week became a literal seven years, Christ being “cut off” after three-and-a-half years' ministry, as He was, yet it is significant that He was also “cut off” on the middle day of a literal week.
Blessing to you!
Hi ST:
I believe that we can say that Jesus was buried before 6PM on Wednesday evening, but the scripture does not tell us the time. It may have been 5:59:30, nor does it tell us precisely when he was resurrected. The scripture only tells us that He was not in the Tomb when they went before sunrise on Sunday morning. I was reasoning 6PM to 6PM because that is when the biblical day begins and ends. Genesis states: “the evening and the morning were the first day”, for example, and you are apparently reasoning 72 hours.
At any rate I do believe that you are correct in stating that Jesus died on Wednesday at 3PM because he is our Passover lamb, that makes sense to me, and I thank you for sharing this knowledge with me.
God Bless
Seeking the truth,
WOW, You have a loving tone to your teaching. I would like to have that gift. You are very patient also.You have efinately “got it,” understaning through belief.
The one big thing I found about this whole fasinating “Passover” story, besides the fact that YHWH's Word stands forever, is that three days and three night is the only sign He would give us “this wicked and adulteress generation.”
It take “belief” in Scripture and in our Creator, as well as Y'shua to understand the Passover. There were no human witnesses to the “rising.”, as the Roman guards were made to take a nap, and the Jews were obeying the Sabbath command.
So they, just as we today must believe it by FAITH. What a wonderful Way to proove Himself and His Son are who Scripture says they are. Y'shua our Passover, YHWH our Savior.
Thank you again Seeking for just being such a good teacher.
Laurel
Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 24 2007,06:20) Quote (Jodi @ Nov. 17 2007,15:30) Quote (IM4Truth @ Nov. 17 2007,15:02) Quote (Jodi @ Nov. 17 2007,14:17) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 17 2007,14:04) Scripture leaves room for belief. When you look at Scripture from the testamony of the Torah, it shows the truth. No, I did not read it. There is no need for me to consider another way, when I understand completely, without a doubt, the truth already. I do not need the interpretation of a human being. But, I don't think it's wrong to search for the truth like you are doing.
Laurel
Laurel I would really like you to read it….come on please, pretty please….The reason why is because I would like you to take her points and show me how they are in error.
I did not say that this is what I believe. I said I find this view fascinating and that she makes some really good points.
The reason why I started this thread is specifically to get people to refute her points.
Laurel, you being firm on your understanding, makes you the perfect candidate, so if you have some time on your hands, I'd appreciate it.
Jodi! Why do you find it so important to listen to another Humans point of view. Should we not rather go to our Bibles and search out what is true? I think there is a scripture that tells us that we need no Human beings, we need God's Holy Spirit who will reveal all truths to us. If not here now then in the future in the millinium. Then there will be a Highway of Holiness and only those that are righteous will walk on it. For me I will be glad to wait till then, if the Holy Spirit does not show me now, but I belief the Holy Spirit has shown my Husband and I a lot of new truths. Seek and you will find, knock and you will receive. But I do not think that is meant to knock on another Human Door. I did not read that tape either, I have no intrest in what Humans have to tell me . I am here to share what I understand. If I see that I am wrong in anyway, I will of course change. But so far I just have not seen that. Ken has very good points on keeping the Sabbth for instant, but I understand it somewhat diffrent. All is written in our Hearts and Jesus magnefied the Law and made it spiritual. The road is steep and few will find it. Many are called and few are chosen. So who is going to be chosen, that of course is the question of the century. One day we will find out.Peace and Love Mrs.
You seem to be contradicting yourself.If you are not here to listen to other peoples points of view then why are you here?
Wow, where would the Israelites be if they did not listen to Moses. Where would the Gentiles and Jews be if they did not listen to Paul? Where would the peoples be if they, in Jesus' time did not listen to Jesus.
In case you didn't NOTICE Lorraine Day, author of the paper, used SCRIPTURE for all her points. But no you didn't notice because you didn't even look, which is fine, but don't criticize my methods of bible study.
I use this forum to fascilitate my bible studies. I like to look up various doctrines by various people. This does not mean that I am looking directly to humans to find truth. I read what they have to say and then I look into the bible and draw my own conclusions, ones that I hope that God is beside me, leading me to.
Jodi! I really do not appreciate the way you talk to me. I said nothing wrong in my Post to you earlier. Just because I dont follow your advise, gives you no right to be so mean.
IM4Truth,
I mean you no disrespect. I was not trying to be mean in my post. You accused me of looking towards a human over the bible for truth and I felt like you were putting words in my mouth, making assumptions that didn't need to be made. No offense but at times I find you to be a little confusing. In the pre-existence thread, because I didnt agree with you, you told me you would never speak to me again. Then later in the Sabbath thread you agreed with me, and all a sudden you wanted to know where I lived. What is up with that?Hi all!
Friday crucifixion
Sunday resurrectionThree days and three nights
Jesus said: Luke 13:32 “Behold, I cast out demons and perform cures today [Fri] and tomorrow [Sat], and the third day [Sun] I reach My goal.”
God said to Moses: “Go to the people and consecrate them today [Mon] and tomorrow [Tues], and let them wash their garments; and let them be ready for the third day [Wed], for on the third day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people.” Exodus 19:10-11
The Bible clearly teaches Yeshua rose on the “Third day” which is not a 36 hour period as the above shows.
Mk 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.This scripture clearly teaches that Yeshua rose “Early” the first day of the week.
Early church Fathers spoke of the sunday ressurection.
250 AD IGNATIUS: “On the day of the preparation, then, at the third hour, He received the sentence from Pilate, the Father permitting that to happen; at the sixth hour He was crucified; at the ninth hour He gave up the ghost; and before sunset He was buried. During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathaea had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord's day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale's belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord's Day contains the resurrection.” The (Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians, chapter 9)
150AD JUSTIN: “But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.” (First apology of Justin, Weekly Worship of the Christians, Ch 68)
The Jewish time system was not the same as ours.
A. Interchangeability of terms “3 days”
B. Parallel passages which prove interchangeability:
C. Actual Bible examples of calculating 3 days & 3 nights!
C1. From the mouth of Jesus!
C2. The case of Cornelius in Acts 10:3+9+23+24+30
C3. The case of Queen Esther: Esther 4:16 + 5:1
C4. The case of the faithless Jews: Matthew 27:63-64
C5. The case of the starving servant: 1 Samuel 30:12-13
D. Day as defined in Genesis
E. “Preparation”, the first century word for Friday!
F. Scholars and commentaries on 3 days & 3 nights
G. Jewish usage of expression “Next Day”.http://www.bible.ca/d-3-days-and-3-nights.htm#V
There is no scripture that says Yeshua rose on the 7th day Sabbath.
Mk 16:19 and others show he arose early on sunday morning.
Why would Yeshua wait and hide for 12 hours before appearing to the saints?
Jodi,
Mrs does it to me and Ken too. She takes everything personally and as I explained to her, we are debating and prooving Scripture here.She accuses us of hurting her feelings, then goes and says things to those who hurt her that are direct personal low blows.
She does it without realizing it I guess, because I told her about it a few times already, but she just keeps repeating it.
Mrs. Now a few of here have felt the little jabs you throw. Do you understand what we are telling you yet?
Me
WJ,
Your quote proove nothing!!In your Luke 13:32 quote you “added” to His Word, to proove a lie!!
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Deu 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.Does anything more need to be said?
Hi.
More reasons Christ didnt rise on the Sabbath…
Problems with Wednesday/Thursday crucifixion and Saturday Resurrection:
A. Saturday Resurrection totally unbiblical
- The fact that Mary did not anoint body on Friday when she had time, and chose to wait for two more days till Sunday morning to anoint the body.
- Nisan 10 (according to “View #5 Wednesday crucifixion”) would also have been a Sabbath and hundreds or thousands of people would have broken the Sabbath on that day by cutting palm branches. Christ also would have broken the Sabbath by making the donkey carry a burden.
- Another reason this date is not acceptable is because it would have eliminated Christ rising on the day of First Fruits/Wave Sheaf
- Since you reject that Mk 16:9 gives the actual time of Jesus resurrection, you must accept that the Bible never actually tells us what day Jesus arose. Where is YOUR Bible verse that says (or even hints at) your belief that Jesus was actually raised on Saturday? In light of such emphasis the Bible places upon the first day of the week are you comfortable knowing that you must admit that GOD NEVER SPECIFICALLY TOLD US the day Jesus was raised. We view this as completely unacceptable to consider and believe this one fact alone proves that Mk 16:9 is giving the actual time Jesus was raised, rather then just stating that he “had been risen before Sunday and thus was in his resurrected stated on Sunday”.
- Why did the two men on the road to Emmaus feel that Sunday was “the third day” since Jesus was crucified. How do you account for the fact that these two men were EXPECTING JESUS TO RAISE (Sunday-the third day) that very day they walked on the road while talking to Jesus.
- How do you explain the fact that the universal uninspired history record of Christians before 300 AD teaches that Jesus died on Friday and was raised on Sunday?
- If Jesus was in the tomb from Wednesday to Saturday, BUT NO ONE SAW HIM TILL SUNDAY MORNING, then no man was really a true witness to the fact that Jesus was not in the tomb LONGER THAN 72 hours or 3 1/2 days literal days if Jesus died on Wednesday, and was resurrected at 3:00 PM on Saturday, He was in the ground 4 days and 3 nights as the Jews counted time?
B. Literally 3 days & 3 nights = 72 Hours impossible!
Those who insist that we must literally interpret 3 days & 3 nights = 72 Hours “It is the sign of Jonah” they say, haven’t understood that it is impossible to harmonize LITERALLY all the data.
If Jesus was resurrected If he rose AFTER the third day, after 72 hours, then all the above verses would read on the FOURTH day.
“On the third day” vs. “after three days” are literally quite different:
If Jesus was raised literally “on the third day”, then the third day was not yet over, it is literally less than 72 hours.
If Jesus raised literally “after three days”, then Jesus would have risen sometime literally after 72 hours. But this would be ON THE FOURTH DAY.Notice that the chief priests and Pharisees wanted the tomb guarded only until the third day, because that is when the resurrection was to occur, NOT on the fourth day! And remember, the watch at the tomb began at the end of the seventh day Sabbath, so that it could be guarded for all of the third day, which Sabbatarians say is Saturday. It was at the end of the duration of 3 days, using their own literalness, that guards STOPPED guarding the tomb. This proves that Jesus was going to raise before, not AFTER 72 hours had elapsed!
Since we have irrefutable Bible evidence that 3 days & 3 nights may in fact be literally less than 72 hours or 3 days & 2 nights or 3 nights & 2 days (Cornelius: Acts 10:3,9, 23,24,30; Starving servant: 1 Sam. 30:12,13; Queen Esther 4:16; 5:1) we must call into question the literal length of time Jonah was in the sea monster!!! In light of the Bible passages, how can we be sure that Jonah was literally (Roman time thinking) 72 hours in the sea monster??? We come full circle to the well established point that the Jews would have viewed Friday 3 PM to Sunday 6 AM as being 3 days & 3 nights!
http://www.bible.ca/d-3-days-and-3-nights.htm#VIIIBlessings.
WJ,
Then to back up the lie you qoute some “men” who are not the Messiah, obviously teaching the doctrines of men!
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
How do you suppose Mariam had time??? Do you know how far she had to walk to find the spices. Did you consider in your heart that she ran to the local grocery store or what?
Wed, the Passover is not a Sabbath. The Sabbath of Unleavened Bread began at sunset on Wed evening!
Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 25 2007,17:25) WJ,
Your quote proove nothing!!In your Luke 13:32 quote you “added” to His Word, to proove a lie!!
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Deu 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.Does anything more need to be said?
lauralIs this a lie?
Mk 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.Now if you teach against that scripture then you will be the liar right?
This is the closest thing you have in the New Testament showing when he arose.
Give me a scripture that says he rose on the 7th day Sabbath, or even where it says he rose on the Sabbath.
Apart from this all you have is speculation.
Luk 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
Luk 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.Below will explain the three days since these things were done for you WJ.
Mat 27:62 Now the next day, that followed the day of the preparation, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate,
Mat 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.
Mat 27:64 Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away, and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
Mat 27:65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.
Mat 27:66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 25 2007,17:36) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 25 2007,17:25) WJ,
Your quote proove nothing!!In your Luke 13:32 quote you “added” to His Word, to proove a lie!!
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Deu 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.Does anything more need to be said?
lauralIs this a lie?
Mk 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.Now if you teach against that scripture then you will be the liar right?
This is the closest thing you have in the New Testament showing when he arose.
Give me a scripture that says he rose on the 7th day Sabbath, or even where it says he rose on the Sabbath.
Apart from this all you have is speculation.
Your quote from Mark,Says that Mariam woke up early on the first day of the week and went to the tomb, so He appeared to her first.
WJ,
you will need to look very closely at your version of Scripture. The words you quoted are not the same as my version. There must be some side bar note to explain yours.Mine says this:
And having risen early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mariam….Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 25 2007,17:47) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Nov. 25 2007,17:36) Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 25 2007,17:25) WJ,
Your quote proove nothing!!In your Luke 13:32 quote you “added” to His Word, to proove a lie!!
Deu 12:32 What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Deu 29:19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:
Luk 12:25 And which of you with taking thought can add to his stature one cubit?
Deu 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.Does anything more need to be said?
lauralIs this a lie?
Mk 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.Now if you teach against that scripture then you will be the liar right?
This is the closest thing you have in the New Testament showing when he arose.
Give me a scripture that says he rose on the 7th day Sabbath, or even where it says he rose on the Sabbath.
Apart from this all you have is speculation.
Your quote from Mark,Says that Mariam woke up early on the first day of the week and went to the tomb, so He appeared to her first.
LauralNo it clearly says Yeshua rose early…
Mk 16:9
When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.Quote (Laurel @ Nov. 25 2007,17:50) WJ,
you will need to look very closely at your version of Scripture. The words you quoted are not the same as my version. There must be some side bar note to explain yours.Mine says this:
And having risen early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mariam….
LauralYou version says the same thing…
And having risen early on the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mariam….
He, not Miriam rose. The context is about Christ rising from the dead.
Mar 16:9 Now1161 when Jesus was risen450 early4404 the first4413 day of the week,4521 he appeared5316 first4412 to Mary3137 Magdalene,3094 out of575 whom3739 he had cast1544 seven2033 devils.1140
Here is the KJV with Strong's too.
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