Thomas Paine

[Cato]

Why do you seek to denigrate them?

I honor them because they set up a system of governance by and of the people based on law.  They walked away from autocratic rulers who claimed divine and right and claimed God made all men equal.  They acknowledged the Almighty and set up a government that stepped away from the abuses of state religion.  They made a working and respectable republic that was a model for its day.  They were men who could hold power and walk away from same in the interest of their beliefs.  These were men of many accomplishments in many fields who acknowledged the Creator but not those who claimed they spoke for him in revelations and anonymous scripture.  That, especially for their times, was something special.

[NickHassan]

Hi cato,
I see no reason to elevate them.
Their works were of the world
and the world is passing away.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2008,11:44)

Hi cato, I see no reason to elevate them. Their works were of the world and the world is passing away.

Why couldn't they be inspired like Paul? Albeit Paul supposedly had a vision of Jesus and spoke to him, but we don't know that perphaps Jefferson did too? In your words, “Were you there?” Maybe it wasn't Jesus, but God who guided their early efforts.

[Not3in1]

Paul was just a man, too.

God didn't stop inspiring after Paul. I still think our God is inspirational!

[NickHassan]

Hi mandy,
So what was their eternal fruit?
Not human achievements but spiritual fruit.

Gal5
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

You cannot pick figs from thorn bushes.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2008,11:51)

Hi mandy, So what was their eternal fruit? Not human achievements but spiritual fruit.   Gal5 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. You cannot pick figs from thorn bushes.

How can you say these fruits are attributed to Paul?
Certainly the works of the above mentioned men have produced such fruit for the world.

[NickHassan]

Hi Not3,
Paul lived everyday from the Damascus Road in risk of his life for the sake of love of God and man.

[Not3in1]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 13 2008,12:00)

Hi Not3, Paul lived everyday from the Damascus Road in risk of his life for the sake of love of God and man.

There have been many world leaders who have done the same. I can think of a half dozen just sitting here…

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
I wonder if God agrees with you..

[Not3in1]

I don't know if that is the question we should be asking?

Whether or not he agrees – he knows the facts, and the facts are that many of men have risked life, limb and liberty for freedom and salvation.

In fact, I've had the honor of chatting with a POW and the stories he could tell…..

[Author]

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