There are 2 not 3

[david]

Epistemaniac writes:
“Even if one were to deny the Trinity, one would have to admit, if one were honest, that from within the view that the Trinity is biblical, the view teaches that WHAT ONE MEMBER OF THE GODHEAD KNOWS AS THEY ARE IN HEAVEN, ALL KNOW.”

Mark 13:32, RS: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.”
Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead.
BUT WAIT, YOU SAY, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing.
If that's true, the questions remains: WHY DID THE HOLY SPIRIT NOT KNOW?

David

[david]

Show me a scripture that says Jesus is God, and I'll show you a scripture that says Satan is God. I'll show you a scripture that say the angels are God's. I'll show you a scripture that says human judges were Gods. And indeed, they are and were.
You may show a scripture that says that Jesus is “mighty God.” But isn't Jehovah refered to as “ALMIGHTY” God 48 times?
Certainly, Jesus is Mighty. If human judges, angels and Satan are called gods, how much more can Jesus be called a god?
And I believe twice in scripture he is.
However, Jehovah is referred to as God almost 6000 times.

Does 2=6000?

Is that equal?

If they are equal, why not make it a little more apparent?

david

[NickHassan]

Quote (epistemaniac @ Oct. 21 2005,14:55)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Oct. 21 2005,04:48) Hi soxan, Here is another forum on trinity. Do you believe , as you suggested in another forum, God is in fact three equal persons in something called a godhead? Do you worship and pray to each or to the so called godhead? One of correspondents said he did and it was like going to a company and you never knew which partner you would be dealing with! the trouble with this ananlogy is that, with the Trinity, it would not and could not apply. Even if one were to deny the Trinity, one would have to admit, if one were honest, that from within the view that the Trinity is biblical, the view teaches that what one member of the godhead knows as they are in heaven, all know. Its ok to disagree, but it's noy ok to set up straw men or caricatures of your theological opponents view, and a caricature, a straw man, is exactly what this analogy does….. blessings

Hi e,
God is in heaven.
God sent His Son to earth and he returned to heaven.
God sent his own Spirit to fill His Son on earth making them one.
We too can drink from this Spirit fountain uniting us with the Father and the Son and welling up to eternal life.

No trinity, but a unity of two, bringing a unity of the many in him, in the family of God.

[liljon]

Jesus is YHVH so he is referred to as God more than twice.
see Zechariah 14

[NickHassan]

Hi liljon,
Yahsua is the Son of YHWH. Are you saying he is also YHWH Himself? How can one who is a son also be part of his own father? Mysterious indeed.
In Zech 14 the Father comes in the Son to rule the earth. They are forever in unity since he was filled with the Spirit of his Father.

[david]

Liljon, circular reasoning does not a good argument make.

“Jesus is YHVH so he is referred to as God more than twice.”

Since the very question we are considering is: Is Jesus God, you cannot skip a step and say Jesus is God because….Jesus is God. That's what we're considering. Understand? Does that make sence?

Literally A THOUSAND TIMES the word GOD is used with reference to and in connection to the tetragrammaton (Jehovah or Yahweh or the 25 other English varieties)
Literally NO TIMES do we find the name Jesus used in connection with the word God. Of course, at John 1:1 and in the prophecy of Isaiah, both clearly are referring to Jesus and he is described as a Mighty God and a god.

A 1000 times the name “Jehovah” is used in connection to the title “God.”
No times is the name “Jesus” specifically used with reference to God.

(As I've said, twice Jesus is referred to as God, but that's only one time more than Satan is called a god, or human judges are called a gods, or the angels are called gods.)

But my point, which is a fairly simple one is this:
If Jesus = Jehovah, then why does the Bible make it so clear that Jehovah is “God,” but doesn't do so at all with Jesus?

david

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Why would God beget another being without written evidence and let that being be called His Spirit? That is nonsense. Just because our simple minds cannot grasp these amazing aspects of God's nature does not give us the right to speculate on these matters. Even worse we certainly have no right to make doctrines based on those speculations and preach them as equal to the gospel of Christ. Such folly puts further sin barriers between us and God.

[liljon]

God is threefold So the son can be the son of YHWH. The bible claims Jesus is YHWH so that make him automatically God.

[NickHassan]

Quote (liljon @ Nov. 03 2005,21:05)

God is threefold So the son can be the son of YHWH. The bible claims Jesus is YHWH so that make him automatically God.

Hi liljon,
The bible does not claim Jesus is Yahweh. It says and he says that he is the son of God. The pharisees thought he meant he was God too but who would want to join in their deception?
Where does scripture read that God is threefold? Men have made that one up and it would be wiser not to follow them

[liljon]

Jesus answered them with an affirmative so he meant it to.
Already told you Zech 14 plus Hebews 1:10 and Romans 10

[NickHassan]

Hi liljon,
So when did Jesus say he was God? Instead he said the Father was their God.

In Zech 14 the father returns in the vessel of His Son they being eternally united in the Spirit.

[liljon]

at his trial when they asked was he the son of god

[NickHassan]

Yes liljon,
And once again he told the truth and said he was.
Do you agree with him?
Is he the Son of God?
So if he says he is the Son of God is he not telling the truth?
Does that surprise you that he would speak the truth?

Now the interpretations of that statement by those who should know better were foolish. Do you agree with them? Would you too condemn the Son of God for speaking the truth?

[NickHassan]

Hi a7,
Here is another forum on the Spirit of God.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Only two beings are in the bible are shown to be of true divine nature.
They are Father and Son.
We worship one.
For us there is one God the Father.. and One Lord Jesus Christ[1Cor8]

[seminarian]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 16 2004,08:12)

Firstly, I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is currently in heaven. He's here on earth indwelling His church. Since you disagree with my interpretation, perhaps you might do me a favour and enlighten me with the “real meaning” of the verses. You dont have to explain them all to me, Mat 3:16,17, 2 Cor 13:14 and Ps 2 will suffice.

Is,

Firstly? O.k. If you go to the original Greek texts and Codices you will find there are no capitalizations or lowercase letters at all. In fact, there aren't even spaces between the words. Therefore capitalization of holy spirit to make it appear to be a god-person was added by translators. In many instances the holy spirit has no gender article either. The holy spirit is simply an “it”.

Here's your scriptures: Mat 3:16-17

If we are to read this the way you wish us to, the thrid person of the so called trinity, i.e., the Holy Spirit became a dove and landed on Lord Jesus' shoulder after baptism. Now, does the Bible actually say this. No.

2 Corn 13:14

The word “fellowship” is also translated as the “communion” of the holy spirit. This would make sense because it is through our spirit and God's that we commune with Him. No big revelation there. Still there's no “he” or “him” present in the original Greek. I would suggest purchasing a good Greek-English Interlinear so that you can better see what I am talking about.

Psalm 2 (I don't know what verse you are referring to. I could find nothing pertaining to the holy spirit there. Maybe this is another type-o?)

The last point is pretty obvious because it is so simple. God the Father has a name, Yahweh. So does His Son, Yahshua. So why doesn't the Holy Spirit have a name? If you can find it in scripture, I would like to see it, (or him).

Blessings,

Semmy

[NickHassan]

Hi,
The Spirit of God from God
fills His Son
and all in the Son
thus making God
all in all unto eternity.

“This is My Son. Listen to Him”

[NickHassan]

Hi,
The essence of the bible is that God and His only begotten Son are in a beautiful relationship and because of our difficulties we are privileged to be allowed to be involved in this loving relationship.

[NickHassan]

This is topical

[malcolm ferris]

Hi Seminarian

Good point about the Holy Spirit not having a name

Mt 28:19 mentions a name (singular) that is the one name that the whole family in Heaven and earth is named.
Also Mt 1:18 credits the paternity of Jesus Christ to the Holy Spirit.

Is this a third person? No
It is the same one person of God – the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus did not come in his own name but in the name of his Father God.
And the only name (singular) we have record of pertaining to baptism and therefore the answer to Mt 28:19 is Jesus Christ (Acts 2:38, Acts 8:16, Acts 19:5)

EPHESIANS 3:14-15
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

[Author]

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