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Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 30 2009,18:01) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 30 2009,02:00) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 30 2009,13:18) God is true to His Word. If He has spoken something He will surely bring it to pass. Having said this, I know that there are false prophets. If something is said to you that doesn't line up with His Word, He did not say it.
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Or do you have a better way to describe what happens if things don't strictly run “to plan”?
When I review my file later, I won't be saying “oh that didn't happen it can't be marked as from God”, I'll be saying “that was wrong actually” (and exactly what could predict anything so accurately it could model people in every little detail?). Now some of the things are so improbable timescale really doesn't matter for validating them – other things are probable enough they'd either have to happen very quickly (after prediction) or be extremely significant when they did occur.
Automatically rejecting anything because it doesn't align with pre-existing beliefs or doesn't pan out that way only runs the risk to reinforce a myth. Granted if you have a direct communication route you can at least consistency check against that data source, whereas most of us are stuck with attempting to reconcile things said by people (and presuming on an external entity, I have to say the human clutter all but drowns it out) – where you immediately have one layer of confusion, vocabulary and intellectual limitations (I don't think anything can tell people things they aren't able to understand).
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Nope, can't even consider it. If God knows the beginning from the end, then he cannot be fallable. It would be impossible.
I do not believe God is fallible. But as He handed over control of this planet to man, who in turn gave it to satan, there are limits on what God can do without having taken back control which would be in violation of His character. So at times it may look as though God is weak and evil surrounds us, but God is working within the constraints of doing all He can for our ultimate good while not taking back control.My opinion – Wm
Quote Ever since I stopped talking to God….I don't hear a bloody thing. a conversation takes two.
Quote Some say I moved away and need to move back into fellowship. Phooey! you moved away, i agree with the fellowship though, being alone at times can be the best there is to get things were they need to be.
Quote God is Almighty and loving….why would little ol' me moving away from him cause him to clam up? Not say a word? again, it take two to have a conversation, he doesn't beg or force you to come to him. you have to give it up, not him.
Quote Nah. He was never there to begin with. It was all in my mind and what I created. is it now, pray tell mandy, your daughter how is she going to handle the new mother she has?
Quote I consider a few of you pretty mature in your faith. I have listened to you and read your ideas….I've considered them thoroughly. At one point I even made a graph with a few of your names listed and various belief systems with the SAME scriptures proving all the various beliefs. It was mind-boggling! seems to me, you were never really searching, letting everyone else do the work and you trying to take it all in and sort it out. how is that going to help.
Quote Let's see…..I have a dollar…..which theory to buy? Which one, which one?? your theory is the same, only worth a dollar, tis no different then the ones you contest to.
mandy, go where you must, your daughter is the one that i have concern over, you have taught her, now you are going to unteach her, may the seed that was planted in her not be taken away.
deep down you know to your heart, and praise be, when you are being tossed and turned over life, because you know HIS word, will be a tough path. one day you will attain the peace you so desperatley look for.
and since you do not believe anymore, stating God bless and God help us all, is of no need.
kol tuv
Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 30 2009,21:00) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 30 2009,13:18) God is true to His Word. If He has spoken something He will surely bring it to pass. Having said this, I know that there are false prophets. If something is said to you that doesn't line up with His Word, He did not say it.
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Or do you have a better way to describe what happens if things don't strictly run “to plan”?
When I review my file later, I won't be saying “oh that didn't happen it can't be marked as from God”, I'll be saying “that was wrong actually” (and exactly what could predict anything so accurately it could model people in every little detail?). Now some of the things are so improbable timescale really doesn't matter for validating them – other things are probable enough they'd either have to happen very quickly (after prediction) or be extremely significant when they did occur.
Automatically rejecting anything because it doesn't align with pre-existing beliefs or doesn't pan out that way only runs the risk to reinforce a myth. Granted if you have a direct communication route you can at least consistency check against that data source, whereas most of us are stuck with attempting to reconcile things said by people (and presuming on an external entity, I have to say the human clutter all but drowns it out) – where you immediately have one layer of confusion, vocabulary and intellectual limitations (I don't think anything can tell people things they aren't able to understand).
Hi Douglas:No, God is not fallible, and in my experience, God spoke to me through visions and in and audible voice regarding his plan for me and my family shortly after I was born again, and then he confirmed what he spoke to me through prophecies many times along my 29 years of waiting as He prepared me for the ministry.
He has also spoken to me through dreams, and through His Word in answer to my prayers.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (princess of the king @ Oct. 31 2009,10:11) mandy, go where you must, your daughter is the one that i have concern over, you have taught her, now you are going to unteach her, may the seed that was planted in her not be taken away.
And when you brainwash the next generation to become a clone parroting your own beliefs it is one of the greatest crimes to human progress you could commit.Better to teach them to be open minded, yet intelligently critical – and leave them the freedom to make up their own mind on what they want to believe in. Better still encourage them to think things through and figure them out for themselves as an individual – the more people who do that the greater the range of human thought – on any given matter, not just religious ones.
Teach them how to think, not what to think.
I'm also going to note that in my experience of people who communicate with God – delays of days, weeks or even months in between messages aren't exceptional. The phenomenon does not seem to be “on demand” as a general rule.
The other comment I have is that you seem to be critical of her for “letting everyone else do all the work” – have you actually tried building a world view from as near scratch as possible? (ironically throwing out all your inherited and indoctrinated beliefs is a good starting point). Not only is it hard work but then you find you believe different things to everyone else and don't fit in any more. Altogether easier to follow the herd, of course.
Anyway, not to come over as too hostile – but I think it's always easy to throw the stones.
Quote (princess of the king @ Oct. 31 2009,10:11) Quote Ever since I stopped talking to God….I don't hear a bloody thing. a conversation takes two.
Quote God is Almighty and loving….why would little ol' me moving away from him cause him to clam up? Not say a word? again, it take two to have a conversation, he doesn't beg or force you to come to him. you have to give it up, not him.
Quote Nah. He was never there to begin with. It was all in my mind and what I created. is it now, pray tell mandy, your daughter how is she going to handle the new mother she has?
Quote I consider a few of you pretty mature in your faith. I have listened to you and read your ideas….I've considered them thoroughly. At one point I even made a graph with a few of your names listed and various belief systems with the SAME scriptures proving all the various beliefs. It was mind-boggling! seems to me, you were never really searching, letting everyone else do the work and you trying to take it all in and sort it out. how is that going to help.
kol tuv
wise words here i think
Quote (942767 @ Oct. 31 2009,11:17) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 30 2009,21:00) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 30 2009,13:18) God is true to His Word. If He has spoken something He will surely bring it to pass. Having said this, I know that there are false prophets. If something is said to you that doesn't line up with His Word, He did not say it.
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Or do you have a better way to describe what happens if things don't strictly run “to plan”?
When I review my file later, I won't be saying “oh that didn't happen it can't be marked as from God”, I'll be saying “that was wrong actually” (and exactly what could predict anything so accurately it could model people in every little detail?). Now some of the things are so improbable timescale really doesn't matter for validating them – other things are probable enough they'd either have to happen very quickly (after prediction) or be extremely significant when they did occur.
Automatically rejecting anything because it doesn't align with pre-existing beliefs or doesn't pan out that way only runs the risk to reinforce a myth. Granted if you have a direct communication route you can at least consistency check against that data source, whereas most of us are stuck with attempting to reconcile things said by people (and presuming on an external entity, I have to say the human clutter all but drowns it out) – where you immediately have one layer of confusion, vocabulary and intellectual limitations (I don't think anything can tell people things they aren't able to understand).
Hi Douglas:No, God is not fallible, and in my experience, God spoke to me through visions and in and audible voice regarding his plan for me and my family shortly after I was born again, and then he confirmed what he spoke to me through prophecies many times along my 29 years of waiting as He prepared me for the ministry.
He has also spoken to me through dreams, and through His Word in answer to my prayers.
Love in Christ,
Marty
I'd say ultimately the jury is still out for me for final accuracy – but I don't see how anything can run strictly “to plan” when people don't always cooperate. If you can't run things to plan then the original plan fails and requires modifications, that at least is my view (and the origin of that particular line of thinking).Quote (Douglas @ Nov. 01 2009,01:49) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 31 2009,11:17) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 30 2009,21:00) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 30 2009,13:18) God is true to His Word. If He has spoken something He will surely bring it to pass. Having said this, I know that there are false prophets. If something is said to you that doesn't line up with His Word, He did not say it.
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Or do you have a better way to describe what happens if things don't strictly run “to plan”?
When I review my file later, I won't be saying “oh that didn't happen it can't be marked as from God”, I'll be saying “that was wrong actually” (and exactly what could predict anything so accurately it could model people in every little detail?). Now some of the things are so improbable timescale really doesn't matter for validating them – other things are probable enough they'd either have to happen very quickly (after prediction) or be extremely significant when they did occur.
Automatically rejecting anything because it doesn't align with pre-existing beliefs or doesn't pan out that way only runs the risk to reinforce a myth. Granted if you have a direct communication route you can at least consistency check against that data source, whereas most of us are stuck with attempting to reconcile things said by people (and presuming on an external entity, I have to say the human clutter all but drowns it out) – where you immediately have one layer of confusion, vocabulary and intellectual limitations (I don't think anything can tell people things they aren't able to understand).
Hi Douglas:No, God is not fallible, and in my experience, God spoke to me through visions and in and audible voice regarding his plan for me and my family shortly after I was born again, and then he confirmed what he spoke to me through prophecies many times along my 29 years of waiting as He prepared me for the ministry.
He has also spoken to me through dreams, and through His Word in answer to my prayers.
Love in Christ,
Marty
I'd say ultimately the jury is still out for me for final accuracy – but I don't see how anything can run strictly “to plan” when people don't always cooperate. If you can't run things to plan then the original plan fails and requires modifications, that at least is my view (and the origin of that particular line of thinking).
Hi Douglas:His plan does not change to meet the people's agenda, but it is up to us to change to meet His agenda, and Jesus is our example for living our life in accordance with his standards, not “the people”.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 26 2009,10:42) Brother's and sister's (and even those who don't consider me such because their theories will not allow it), I've been doing a lot of back reading here at HeavenNet. I daresay that I've read nearly every thread now.
My faith is shot. I believe there is a God/Creator and that is all.
Everyone has their theory and verse. Everyone is so convinced they are right (most have 'heard from God' to deepend their brand of conviction).
What I have found in comparing the scriptures to various theories is this – the bible can be manipulated to ANY idea out there. And the Holy Spirit? Well….”he” says different things to different people. I think he enjoys sending children around the mullberry bush…
Why should I believe any of it? And if I am to believe some of it or portions of it…..which theories should I choose? Yours?
Sometimes I truly feel like God has abandoned me.
Love,
Mandy
Hello again Mandy,If you would like to find out once and for all if God has abandoned you, would you be willing to allow me to pray for you? Wouldn't it be nice to find out about that issue once and for all so you can lay it to rest? If so, then I will look forward to your response, and I know that the Lord will honor my prayers. I'm not saying I'm something special. I am saying that I would like to pray some very special prayers that will cut through everything and get right to the heart of the matter between you and God.
Love ya,
ChrisQuote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 27 2009,05:42) Brother's and sister's (and even those who don't consider me such because their theories will not allow it), I've been doing a lot of back reading here at HeavenNet. I daresay that I've read nearly every thread now.
My faith is shot. I believe there is a God/Creator and that is all.
Everyone has their theory and verse. Everyone is so convinced they are right (most have 'heard from God' to deepend their brand of conviction).
What I have found in comparing the scriptures to various theories is this – the bible can be manipulated to ANY idea out there. And the Holy Spirit? Well….”he” says different things to different people. I think he enjoys sending children around the mullberry bush…
Why should I believe any of it? And if I am to believe some of it or portions of it…..which theories should I choose? Yours?
Sometimes I truly feel like God has abandoned me.
Love,
Mandy
If that is the fruit, then why do you come here?If I drank beer and it made me break out in spots, I would stop drinking it.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 10 2009,22:03) Quote (Not3in1 @ Oct. 27 2009,05:42) Brother's and sister's (and even those who don't consider me such because their theories will not allow it), I've been doing a lot of back reading here at HeavenNet. I daresay that I've read nearly every thread now.
My faith is shot. I believe there is a God/Creator and that is all.
Everyone has their theory and verse. Everyone is so convinced they are right (most have 'heard from God' to deepend their brand of conviction).
What I have found in comparing the scriptures to various theories is this – the bible can be manipulated to ANY idea out there. And the Holy Spirit? Well….”he” says different things to different people. I think he enjoys sending children around the mullberry bush…
Why should I believe any of it? And if I am to believe some of it or portions of it…..which theories should I choose? Yours?
Sometimes I truly feel like God has abandoned me.
Love,
Mandy
If that is the fruit, then why do you come here?If I drank beer and it made me break out in spots, I would stop drinking it.
When I drank beer, ir made me see spots.Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 31 2009,01:29) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 30 2009,18:01) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 30 2009,02:00) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 30 2009,13:18) God is true to His Word. If He has spoken something He will surely bring it to pass. Having said this, I know that there are false prophets. If something is said to you that doesn't line up with His Word, He did not say it.
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Or do you have a better way to describe what happens if things don't strictly run “to plan”?
When I review my file later, I won't be saying “oh that didn't happen it can't be marked as from God”, I'll be saying “that was wrong actually” (and exactly what could predict anything so accurately it could model people in every little detail?). Now some of the things are so improbable timescale really doesn't matter for validating them – other things are probable enough they'd either have to happen very quickly (after prediction) or be extremely significant when they did occur.
Automatically rejecting anything because it doesn't align with pre-existing beliefs or doesn't pan out that way only runs the risk to reinforce a myth. Granted if you have a direct communication route you can at least consistency check against that data source, whereas most of us are stuck with attempting to reconcile things said by people (and presuming on an external entity, I have to say the human clutter all but drowns it out) – where you immediately have one layer of confusion, vocabulary and intellectual limitations (I don't think anything can tell people things they aren't able to understand).
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Nope, can't even consider it. If God knows the beginning from the end, then he cannot be fallable. It would be impossible.
I do not believe God is fallible. But as He handed over control of this planet to man, who in turn gave it to satan, there are limits on what God can do without having taken back control which would be in violation of His character. So at times it may look as though God is weak and evil surrounds us, but God is working within the constraints of doing all He can for our ultimate good while not taking back control.My opinion – Wm
There are several pages of this, but your first post caught my eye. Consider this. Why was this world dark and without form? When God created this Earth IMO it was beautiful and the Angels shouted for joy. I don't believe the Angels shouted for joy for a dark and void Earth. God had send Satan down here to take care of this Earth and it was he that made it that way. God then recreated IMO the Earth for us to live on. That goes right along with Science. Satan already was here when God created man. That makes sense to me, what do you all think about that?
Peace and Love IreneQuote (banana @ Dec. 11 2009,02:01) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 31 2009,01:29) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 30 2009,18:01) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 30 2009,02:00) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 30 2009,13:18) God is true to His Word. If He has spoken something He will surely bring it to pass. Having said this, I know that there are false prophets. If something is said to you that doesn't line up with His Word, He did not say it.
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Or do you have a better way to describe what happens if things don't strictly run “to plan”?
When I review my file later, I won't be saying “oh that didn't happen it can't be marked as from God”, I'll be saying “that was wrong actually” (and exactly what could predict anything so accurately it could model people in every little detail?). Now some of the things are so improbable timescale really doesn't matter for validating them – other things are probable enough they'd either have to happen very quickly (after prediction) or be extremely significant when they did occur.
Automatically rejecting anything because it doesn't align with pre-existing beliefs or doesn't pan out that way only runs the risk to reinforce a myth. Granted if you have a direct communication route you can at least consistency check against that data source, whereas most of us are stuck with attempting to reconcile things said by people (and presuming on an external entity, I have to say the human clutter all but drowns it out) – where you immediately have one layer of confusion, vocabulary and intellectual limitations (I don't think anything can tell people things they aren't able to understand).
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Nope, can't even consider it. If God knows the beginning from the end, then he cannot be fallable. It would be impossible.
I do not believe God is fallible. But as He handed over control of this planet to man, who in turn gave it to satan, there are limits on what God can do without having taken back control which would be in violation of His character. So at times it may look as though God is weak and evil surrounds us, but God is working within the constraints of doing all He can for our ultimate good while not taking back control.My opinion – Wm
There are several pages of this, but your first post caught my eye. Consider this. Why was this world dark and without form? When God created this Earth IMO it was beautiful and the Angels shouted for joy. I don't believe the Angels shouted for joy for a dark and void Earth. God had send Satan down here to take care of this Earth and it was he that made it that way. God then recreated IMO the Earth for us to live on. That goes right along with Science. Satan already was here when God created man. That makes sense to me, what do you all think about that?
Peace and Love Irene
Personally I think it is nonsense. I will stick with the biblical version, and you can embrace your scientific version, call me a prude, but if Genesis states 6 days it was created then it is good enough for me.
Hi CON,
So 6000 years does not fit for you?[Ps 90]
We look forward to the seventh day[millenium]No fallible God in our bibles.
The earth was already present when Genesis begins and the impact of visible creation on eternity is momentary.
hi nick
the scriptures said that the foundation were created in the very beguining what geneses tells is the transformation of the rough earth into living quarters for live.
the time frame maybe the problem depending if you believe the JW VERSION OF 7000 years per day of creation but is this biblical ?
as fare that i know is the time frame in which God has performed is creation and transformation.
i believe it is a speculation to change it to years.God is not locked in time.
as for satan the scriptures said that he became saton only after man was created,and in the book of Job it explain what is the chalange oposed to God for all creation men and angels.
this is why we are in this delema ,but with the grace of God and the sacrifice of Christ we will be able to succeed.
this is my understanding.I think what Nick is referring to is the 6 days of creation and a seventh day of rest, foreshadowed the 6000 years since creation and the millennial rest.
My opinion – Wm
hi seek
forgot
6000+1000=7000 x 7days=49000years = pre-jubile+1000=50000=jubile ,this is not my idea it is the JWQuote (banana @ Dec. 11 2009,16:01) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 31 2009,01:29) Quote (Constitutionalist @ Oct. 30 2009,18:01) Quote (Douglas @ Oct. 30 2009,02:00) Quote (942767 @ Oct. 30 2009,13:18) God is true to His Word. If He has spoken something He will surely bring it to pass. Having said this, I know that there are false prophets. If something is said to you that doesn't line up with His Word, He did not say it.
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Or do you have a better way to describe what happens if things don't strictly run “to plan”?
When I review my file later, I won't be saying “oh that didn't happen it can't be marked as from God”, I'll be saying “that was wrong actually” (and exactly what could predict anything so accurately it could model people in every little detail?). Now some of the things are so improbable timescale really doesn't matter for validating them – other things are probable enough they'd either have to happen very quickly (after prediction) or be extremely significant when they did occur.
Automatically rejecting anything because it doesn't align with pre-existing beliefs or doesn't pan out that way only runs the risk to reinforce a myth. Granted if you have a direct communication route you can at least consistency check against that data source, whereas most of us are stuck with attempting to reconcile things said by people (and presuming on an external entity, I have to say the human clutter all but drowns it out) – where you immediately have one layer of confusion, vocabulary and intellectual limitations (I don't think anything can tell people things they aren't able to understand).
Ever consider the idea that God might sometimes be fallible too?Nope, can't even consider it. If God knows the beginning from the end, then he cannot be fallable. It would be impossible.
I do not believe God is fallible. But as He handed over control of this planet to man, who in turn gave it to satan, there are limits on what God can do without having taken back control which would be in violation of His character. So at times it may look as though God is weak and evil surrounds us, but God is working within the constraints of doing all He can for our ultimate good while not taking back control.My opinion – Wm
There are several pages of this, but your first post caught my eye. Consider this. Why was this world dark and without form? When God created this Earth IMO it was beautiful and the Angels shouted for joy. I don't believe the Angels shouted for joy for a dark and void Earth. God had send Satan down here to take care of this Earth and it was he that made it that way. God then recreated IMO the Earth for us to live on. That goes right along with Science. Satan already was here when God created man. That makes sense to me, what do you all think about that?
Peace and Love Irene
I agree Irene,
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.There could have been any length of time between 1 & 2 but smarter people then me have been arguing on both sides of that issue for a long time so I do not expect to prove it to anyone.
From the time that God spoke let there be light there followed 6 time periods called days, personally I believe they could have been 24 hour days because it speaks of evening, and there was morning, but it wouldn't shake my faith if it referred to ages, not worth arguing over IMO.
I also agree that satan was around before this time period and may well have inhabited this and possible other worlds.
however I do believe that satan had no clear rights to the planet when God gave dominion over to man.
Just my opinion – Wm
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