The Yahweh Unity

[Lightenup]

Yahweh is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, two persons united in one spirit as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, as I understand it.

Sometimes the name Yahweh is representing the Father.

Sometimes the name is representing the Son.

Sometimes the name Yahweh is representing the unity of the Father and the Son and has single first person pronouns and sometimes plural.

As part of the great and awesome God, Yahweh, there is one true God, the Father and one true Lord, the only begotten God who is the only begotten Son of the Father.

They existed eternally in some manner and nothing came into being apart from them.

I don’t understand the Holy Spirit to be a person in addition to the Father and the Son but seems to me to be their united “inner persons” of both the Father and the Son which comes from them while remains within them at the same time and has omnipresent potential. That is not to be confused to be an impersonal force.

I do not believe this to be defined as a binity, or a trinity, but instead simply the unity of Yahweh.

This is my understanding. LU

This thread is open for discussion, I pray it becomes fruitful.

[mikeboll64]

LU: Sometimes the name Yahweh is representing the unity of the Father and the Son and has single first person pronouns and sometimes plural.

Can you give a scriptural example other than your understanding of Yahweh where a pair of persons is identified using singular masculine pronouns?

 

 

 

[Lightenup]

Mike, I can’t think of a pair of persons that are a unity and are male in scripture so I doubt that I could give you that. If I think of a pair of persons that are also a unity of some sort other than a man and wife, I will let you know. Perhaps there is a singular personal pronoun used with man and wife. I could give you a scriptural example of a group that does though.

I’ll be away for the evening. btw.

[mikeboll64]

Okay, what is the group example?

[Lightenup]

Here is one of several:

Jeremiah 31:10 Hear the word of the LORD, O ye nations, and declare it in the isles afar off, and say, He that scattered Israel will gather him, and keep him, as a shepherd doth his flock.

[mikeboll64]

Jeremiah 31:9-11…  For I am Israel’s Father, and Ephraim is My firstborn.” Hear, O nations, the word of Yahweh, and proclaim it in distant coastlands: “He who scattered Israel will gather him and keep him as a shepherd keeps his flock. For Yahweh has ransomed Jacob and redeemed him from the hand that had overpowered him…

Do you understand these poetic words to mean that there exists an “Israel Unity”, an “Ephraim Unity”, and a “Jacob Unity” – all of which are singular living beings, say “Manheads”, comprised of multiple persons?

I guess I’m asking if you truly believe that the wording in this passage offers support for a “Yahweh Unity” – a singular living being comprised of multiple persons.

Also, which Yahweh is which in this passage?  Which of them is Israel’s Father?  Which of them claims Ephraim as his firstborn?  Which of them is the “He” who scattered Israel?  And which one of them ransomed and redeemed Jacob?

[Lightenup]

Hi Mike,

Where did I say that a Yahweh Unity is “a singular living being” comprised of multiple persons?

I understand Jeremiah 31:10 to be Israel (the nation- a unity, not a singular person) as the singular masculine pronoun “him” in the passage.

[mikeboll64]

Wait, are you saying that Yahweh the Father and “Yahweh the Son” are two completely different living beings?

[Lightenup]

yes

[mikeboll64]

Oh.  Well this is why the thread is a good idea. I have always thought you believed that it was like the Trinity Doctrine, except with only two persons in the one Godhead.

Now it seems we are a lot closer than I thought we were, because I also believe that Jesus and his God are two individual gods.

[Lightenup]

I don’t think they are “two individual gods” as if they could be divided as one is god of this and the other is god of that. In the OT, they were the God of Israel together, (not separately or independently) each in his specific role with the Son always under the authority of the Father as a perfect son would be not because he is a lesser being.

[mikeboll64]

Now I’m confused again. Is the Father a god? Is the Son a god?

If so, we have two different gods who are united in purpose and vision.

By contrast, the Trinity Doctrine says that they are different persons that make up only one god.

I don’t see another option. They are either two persons who comprise one single being (one god), or they are two different beings (two different gods).

Please elaborate.

 

[Lightenup]

Let’s try this…

Let’s assume that the God of gods is one person and the Lord of lords is another (as I understand it) and this following statement is true:

Yahweh is the God of gods and the Lord of lords.

If the previous statement is true, then this following statement is not true:

Yahweh is the God of gods but not the Lord of lords.

Can you see that if the first “Yahweh is….” statement is true then the second “Yahweh is…” statement is not true?

 

[mikeboll64]

That doesn’t help with the problem at all.  I’m still trying to find out whether you think the father and the son are two different gods (two individual living beings), or two different persons who comprise one single god (a single living being).

Plus we have this new problem now…

I accept that the father alone can be both a god of other gods AND a lord of other lords.

And I think that you believe that the son can be both a god of other gods and a lord of other lords.

So as I understand your doctrine so far, the “Yahweh Unity” would be comprised of “gods (plural) of gods and lords (plural) of lords.

More elaboration please.

[Lightenup]

They are two different persons who do not act as two different gods but act as one god together.

[mikeboll64]

But they ARE two different gods, right? Because if the father is a god and the son is a god, and they are two different individual beings, then there is no other option except for them to be two different individual gods, right?

Whether they act in unison (united in purpose) or not, they’d still be two completely different individual gods – each with their own minds and wills, right?

And since that must be the case, you and I believe the same thing: the father and the son are two different gods.

But in your understanding, Yahweh would be the gods of gods and lords of lords, right? And in my understanding, Yahweh is the father only, and he (singular) is the god of gods and lord of lords.

Only one of those is a title actually given in scripture.

Thoughts?

[Lightenup]

Mike, I’m going to have my son over for dinner soon and be tied up till later tonight.

For the sake of this thread, if you are going to be able to understand my view at all, I ask you to put aside your understanding that Yahweh as the God of gods and Lord of lords is only one person, the Father.

I’m not asking you to believe my view but to be open to the view as possible especially due to the fact that in the NT, 1 Cor 8:6 says that there is one God and one Lord and that they are two persons, not just the Father but the Father and the Son and that in Revelation, the Son bears the title of Lord of lords.

Can you do that, please?

[Danny Dabbs]

Hi LU,

You started a very good thread.
According to Psalm 2:2 and Acts 4:26 Yahweh is the Father
of Jesus Christ.
How can Yahweh be a unity of Father and Son, if Yahweh is the Father
of Jesus Christ?

God bless

[Lightenup]

@DannyDabbs

Hi Danny,

Thank you and thank you for your question.

Regarding your questions:

As I stated in the OP:

Sometimes the name Yahweh is representing the Father.

Sometimes the name is representing the Son.

Sometimes the name Yahweh is representing the unity of the Father and the Son and has single first person pronouns and sometimes plural.

Look in this verse which seems to be Yahweh as the Son:

Zech11:13 Yahweh said to me, “Throw it to the potter, the handsome price that I was valued at by them!” I took the thirty pieces of silver, and threw them to the potter, in the house of Yahweh.

The NT ties that thirty pieces of silver to the silver that Judas was given as a fulfillment of what Zechariah said, see here:

Matt 27:3Then when Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders, 4saying, “I have sinned by betraying innocent blood.” But they said, “What is that to us? You shall see to it yourself!” 5And he threw the pieces of silver into the temple sanctuary and left; and he went away and hanged himself. 6The chief priests took the pieces of silver and said, “It is not lawful to put them in the temple treasury, since it is money paid for blood.” 7And they conferred together and with the money bought the Potter’s Field as a burial place for strangers. 8For this reason that field has been called the Field of Blood to this day. 9Then that which was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet was fulfilled: “AND THEY TOOK THE THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, THE PRICE OF THE ONE WHOSE PRICE HAD BEEN SET by the sons of Israel; 10AND THEY GAVE THEM FOR THE POTTER’S FIELD, JUST AS THE LORD DIRECTED ME.”

Blessings, LU

 

[Danny Dabbs]

Hi LU,

If Jesus is Yahweh then Jesus is His own Father.
Regarding Zech11:13:
Actions are often attributed to Yahweh even though Yahweh himself does not carry out the actions. For instance, we read in Exodus 7:17 where Yahweh says He Himself will smite the waters with the rod in His own hand. Yet, it was Aaron that held the rod (Exodus 7:19,20). Should we conclude from this that Aaron is also Yahweh?

God bless

[Author]

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