The word Prince

[Phoenix]

Did you even read every word that was in my post? man that was quick lol

[Phoenix]

And what of this?

Rev 1:5
5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood

[NickHassan]

Hi P,
He is King of kings.

[Phoenix]

but Nick it says in scripture that He is the prince of kings too

[NickHassan]

Hi P,
So?
To be a prince of princes is to be one who rules over the angelic princes just as the king of Kings rules over kings.

Likewise the one called messiah prince, the unique, firstborn and the greatest being under God rules over all earthly kings as king of kings.

[Phoenix]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,03:03)

Hi P, So? To be a prince of princes is to be one who rules over the angelic princes just as the king of Kings rules over kings. Likewise the one called messiah prince, the unique, firstborn and the greatest being under God rules over all earthly kings as king of kings.

LOL so?? seriously

It says, and the prince of the kings of the earth

the prince of the
Kings of the
earth

[NickHassan]

Hi P,
So do you read that as meaning he is less than the kings of earth??

[Phoenix]

Hi Nick

Not at all. I was reading it as a parallel to Michael. That was all. You know me being a newbie in all this I honestly do find that the bible contradicts itself. I honestly cant wait till I understand it all. If it ever happens.

Hugs
Phoenix

[NickHassan]

Hi P,
A prince cannot be appointed but must be born.
A prince belongs to only one king.
Christ, the prince of princes, rules the kings of earth.

Ps 2
' 10Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

There is no need to imagine Michael is any more than he is shown to be.
He is not shown to be Christ.

[Is 1:18]

Hi Phoenix,

From Strong's Concordance
G758
archōn
ar'-khone
Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): – chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler.

Check a few different translations and you'll see the Greek word 'archon' basically means first in order of rank or power, a chief or ruler etc.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage….;51;47;

[Is 1:18]

Sorry, if it was not clear, the above post was in reference to the word sometimes translated as “prince” in Revelation 1:5

[Phoenix]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 25 2007,03:44)

Hi Phoenix, From Strong's Concordance G758 archōn ar'-khone Present participle of G757; a first (in rank or power): – chief (ruler), magistrate, prince, ruler. Check a few different translations and you'll see the Greek word 'archon' basically means first in order of rank or power, a chief or ruler etc. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage….;51;47;

Hi Is

Hey thats a cool way of looking at biblegateway. Here I was flicking between screens hehe. But now I have bookmarked that one you sent so that I can continue to use it that way. I didnt know it could be done like that

Anyway, Ok I see your point in regards to the translation.

Then what about this…

Is 9:6
6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Now in my opinion this is even uglier because now I have to accept the trinity if I am to trust in that verse. But the funny thing is… this will mean that Michael is also … God

Oh BTW trust me I used your cool passage thingy.

Hugs
Phoenix

[Is 1:18]

Hi Phoenix,

Prince (Hebrew = “sar”) in Isa 9:6 means rirst in rank, 'ruler' or 'chief' as well….

From Strong's Concordance
H8269
śar
From H8323; a head person (of any rank or class): – captain (that had rule), chief (captain), general, governor, keeper, lord, ([-task-]) master, prince (-ipal), ruler, steward.

I'm not sure how you see Michael in that verse, you'll have to explain it to me I think.

[Phoenix]

Hi Is

Ok, in the bible Michael is referred to being the Prince at least 3 times that I know of in Daniel. He was a prince, your prince and the Great Prince. Isaiah speaks of the Prince of Peace. So is it wrong for me to think that maybe these 2 prophets are speaking of the same person? Actually, Daniel refers to Jesus and Michael both being a Prince. (Dan 8:25 for Jesus)(Dan 10 & 12 for Michael) In Dan 9:25 goes that Prince ruler thing amongst the different translations.

So, depending which bible you trust in is your belief. I thought KJV was the closest.

Hugs
Phoenix

[Is 1:18]

Hi Phoenix,
The word has quite a broad application in the OT, that certainly extends outside of the parameters of Michael and prophetic references to Yeshua…

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword….nend=73

[NickHassan]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 25 2007,04:42)

Hi Phoenix, The word has quite a broad application in the OT, that certainly extends outside of the parameters of Michael and prophetic references to Yeshua… http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword….nend=73

Hi Is 1.18,
Prophetic?
He comes as KING
He is the prince of the princes shown with him, including Michael, in Daniel.
He is a son with the sons shown in Jb 1,2 38.

[Is 1:18]

The OT references to Yehsua were prophetic, yes….what else could they be?

[NickHassan]

Hi Is1.18,
I see what you mean but he was not spoken of as a prince as prophetic.
If so the reference to Michael as a prince was also prophetic.

[Phoenix]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,05:26)

Hi Is1.18, I see what you mean but he was not spoken of as a prince as prophetic. If so the reference to Michael as a prince was also prophetic.

Ok now Im confused LOL

Is… Nick has me confused. I assume you know what he is talking about.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 25 2007,05:26)

Hi Is1.18, I see what you mean but he was not spoken of as a prince as prophetic. If so the reference to Michael as a prince was also prophetic.

Okay. But the word prince in Hebrew (“sar”) is really just a reference to pre-eminence in rank, it can (and does) apply to more than just angelic beings….it has quite a broad range of applications.

Am I being clear?

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