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Hi MB,
Did you read Ps 139 7-10?The Word returned to God within and as Jesus Christ.
The Word is of the Spirit of GodYour two statements contradict each other, Nick.
God's Spirit is never separate from God, and therefore could never “return to” God.
God's Word, on the other hand, is said to have been sent FROM God, and return back TO God.
One thing is forever connected to God, and can never leave Him. The other thing is not.
I do, however, agree with you that the Word returned to God as our savior Jesus Christ. That is because the Word, 33 years earlier, actually BECAME Jesus Christ.
Hi MB,
You cannot grasp spiritual things yet Mike.
You try to make the ways of God fit in your ways.Let the word teach you and don't let your intellectual mind fight it
God has been teaching me this whole time, Nick…… through various vessels. I don't fight what He has shown me. I only try to share those things with people like you.
Btw, your claim that I can't understand spiritual things is as weak as that other Trinitarian claim you make about things not having to make sense to us.
Who then, ARE those things supposed to make sense to, if not us? The angels? The demons?
Of course the scriptures were written for the benefit of mankind, and they make sense to mankind.
So don't go saying that I don't understand – just because my last post has you stumped.
I want you to tell me how “The Spirit”, which is never separate from God, was able to say he would RETURN back to heaven – as if he had LEFT heaven.
Could “The Spirit” say such a thing? Or could that only be said by someone who literally came down from heaven completely, and would go back to heaven eventually?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2014,14:03) And that means the Word completely LEFT God for a while, right?
Mike B.The Word of God never left God,He was just placed
on earth,and God is still there speaking through Him.
It's always God speaking,through His Word,even in the garden,or to Moses,Abraham.
God's mind is always in frequency with His Word no matter
where He is.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 08 2014,00:16) It's always God speaking,through His Word………
So then God prayed to Himself to remove the cup from Himself?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2014,01:16) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 08 2014,00:16) It's always God speaking,through His Word………
So then God prayed to Himself to remove the cup from Himself?
Mike B.Quote So then God prayed to Himself to remove the cup from Himself? I never said that the Word is God himself: Did I?
The trinies believe that.
The Word is the Word *OF* God.
Always in subjection to God.Since He was made human;He also has his own feelings
and own words to say.
But He did not come to earth to please himself, and to do his own affairs; but to do the work of his Father.
God was speaking through him most of the time.
Jesus Himself as a person; did not speak his own words, most of the time.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 07 2014,12:52) God's Spirit is never separate from God, and therefore could never “return to” God.
Mike……..This is Right, that is why you should believe God was indeed “IN” Jesus, Just as he said He was. God The Father can exist in anyone because he is Spirit> You problem is, you simply do not understand what Spirit is, nor what it can do. Now if you body is the “Temple of God,” then why wouldn't God let you understand this. It is God who is “IN” us that is the Hope of our Glory. If you do not have the Spirit of God “IN” you, you simply are not none of His, according to scripture that is. But if his Spirit abides “IN” you, it will quicken our mortal bodies, we are told.You understand demon spirits, can inter a persons, but you seem to not understand God who is Spirit also, can do the same thing. You just do not believe what Jesus said, The FATHER was “IN” Him. Now be Honest and admit it Mike. What do you think Jesus meant when Jesus said I am not alone The Father who sent him, was with him and “IN” him. Just as he said he was. The only time God The Father left him was when he yelled out “My God , My God , have you FORSAKEN ME”. IMO
God's Spirits form words and His power carries them out, in all creation. Your viewing God as a HUMAN PERSON, not as a SPIRIT . Also, Spirits are not words they (spirits) Form Words, (intelligent utterances), because they effect the heart and Mind and cause us how to perceive the things.
God must be “IN a Person in order for him to Perceive the things of God, or haven't you read . what knows the things of a man save the spirit in man , and again, what knows the things of God except the Spirit of God, and we have the Spirit of the living God “IN” us so we Perceive as Jesus did, and the Holy Spirit of God, which “abides” in us, brings to us the memory of his words, it is our teacher and imparts to us just as it pleases. Our bodies are not just a temple for us to live in, they are the temples of the Living God, Paul said know you not , your “BODIES” “ARE”, the temple of the LIVING GOD.
Mike your carnal mind, is causing you to only reason from a pure human standpoint, and it is blocking you. All those who have God's Spirit in them, are being taught by God himself, or haven't you read, you shall “ALL” be taught by God
We do not rely on just human reason, but on the Spirit of the Living God. Just as it says, WE have not “RECEIVED” the SPIRIT of FEAR, but of Power and Love, and of a Sound Mind. all of that should tell you, Spirit is what effects our minds and hearts, and that is where our WORDS come from, Surely you do understand that right?
Mike these are things blocking your understanding. IMO
1……….Jesus is not a God of any kind.
2……….Jesus is not, the word, he never said he was, even
though he spoke God the Fathers words to us. Being
produced from the Spirit of God which was “IN” Him.3……….Jesus did not Preexist as a sentinel being before his
berth on this earth. He existed only in the plan and
will of God the Father, from the very foundation of
the earth.4………..John 1:1, is speaking of God alone and no one else.
5………..Jesus the “MAN” became a Son of GOD when he was
baptized in the Jordan river and after that he was
sent and tested in the wilderness forty days.6………..You view as Jesus not being only a human being, is
causing you not to relate with him or God, properly.7……….. Preaching this “DOCTRINE OF SEPARATION” is not of
God, but of the synagogues of Satan Himself. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………………gene
Gene,
All 7 of your points are wrong – plain and simple.
Concerning #4, do you really think “The Being of God” could have been WITH “The Being of God” in the beginning?
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 08 2014,08:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2014,01:16) Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 08 2014,00:16) It's always God speaking,through His Word………
So then God prayed to Himself to remove the cup from Himself?
Mike B.I never said that the Word is God himself: Did I?
What you said is in the quote box above.Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 08 2014,08:49) Since He was made human;He also has his own feelings
and own words to say.
Wakeup,Our understandings are not far from each other. We both believe a spirit entity known as “the Word” was with God in the beginning, and then was transformed into the flesh and blood human being Jesus Christ. And we both believe that this Word/Jesus being has ascended back to heaven, where he is a spirit being once again.
This is good, since that is what the scriptures actually teach us.
Our problem lies in the fact that you think this pre-flesh Word actually WAS God Himself, and then became a servant, son, and prophet OF God. You think this “Word OF God” is the very “everlasting Father” he is the Word OF.
Those things are unscriptural……… and nonsensical.
You also think God ALWAYS spoke only through this Word, when we know for a fact that God spoke through visions, and also through angels such as Gabriel.
So I've decided that your brain is in the right place, but your mind just can't seem to make any sense of the flawed translation, “the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.
And it seems like the fact that this flawed translation of John 1:1 is so nonsensical, it has “allowed” your brain to think your slightly less nonsensical conclusion of what those words mean are actually sensible. I assure you that they are not.
Your brain is fighting with itself. You are seeing “and the Word was God”, and you are believing that the precious KJV absolutely can't be wrong, and so you have no choice but try and make some kind of sense out of that completely nonsensical statement.
But in the process, you have completely ignored the fact that your conclusion calls for something that use to BE God Almighty Himself becoming a completely different entity with it's own mind and will.
How could that happen? How could “God Almighty” become something OTHER THAN “God Almighty”?
So, in your effort to make sense out of a nonsensical statement that shouldn't have ever made it into even one English Bible, you have come up with your own nonsense.
You can't use unscriptural nonsense to “make sense” out of the original unscriptural nonsense in English versions of John 1:1. That's like throwing good money after bad.
Hi MB,
God pours of His Spirit[jl2]
Why would you put human expectations on the capabilities of God's Spirit?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 06 2014,06:26) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 03 2014,20:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2014,06:08)
Kerwin,WHO speaks through Jesus in these latter days?
Mike,God speaks his word through Jesus. = God's word speaks through Jesus
No Kerwin.Those two things do NOT equal each other. Either “God” spoke through Jesus, or “God's Word” spoke through Jesus.
Which one of those is the scriptural truth?
Mike,Why I said they are the same is that the statement “by the word the ages were framed” means “by God the ages were formed” as one is the agent and the other the primary.
Mike B.
I suppose when Jesus said: even the stones; God could
make them glorify Him, is also nonsensical to you.All these are nonsensical to you;
The dead can be resurrected is also nonsensical to you.
The Word of God is a living being is nonsensical.
We are created in the image of the Word;is nosensical.
Because there was no such as: *IN OUR IMAGE*.
We are not created in the image of God,but in the image of
the spokesman God created.
THESE ARE THE THINGS YOU ARE INSINUATING.Because there was only God; and He is a spirit.
God must have created some other creature as His spokesman; there can be no other way.
WE ARE THE IMAGE OF THE CREATED SPOKESMAN,NOT THE
IMAGE OF GOD.You are repeatedly twisting my words,by saying that the Word IS GOD, when I said the Word is *OF* GOD.
You CAN NOT SEE that *BEFORE* the beginning there was only God with His Word of Mind in Him,untill the beginning of creation.That is when God spoke out His Word into existence.wakeup.
Hi MB,
Did you not know God manifests in creation as His Spirit?“God is at work in you to will and to do” Phil
God is not far from anyone.Acts17.27
And impossible to get away from.Ps 139Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 08 2014,12:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 06 2014,06:26) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 03 2014,20:21) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2014,06:08)
Kerwin,WHO speaks through Jesus in these latter days?
Mike,God speaks his word through Jesus. = God's word speaks through Jesus
No Kerwin.Those two things do NOT equal each other. Either “God” spoke through Jesus, or “God's Word” spoke through Jesus.
Which one of those is the scriptural truth?
Mike,Why I said they are the same is that the statement “by the word the ages were framed” means “by God the ages were formed” as one is the agent and the other the primary.
So does that equate “the word of God” with “God” in each scriptural instance? For example, when the Word was WITH God in the beginning, are God and the Word the same exact thing?Consider the King of Abyssinia, who also has a spokesman called “The Word”. Tell me if “the word” means the same thing in both of the following examples:
1. The Word of the King showed up late to work Saturday, so the king had to speak directly to some of his subjects.
2. By the word of the king, the opposing nation was invaded.
Can you see that the phrase “the word” means different things in the two examples? Would you ever use #2 to prove that #1 doesn't refer to a living, breathing BEING? Would you ever use #2 to prove that the Word and the King from #1 are the same, identical person or being?
Of course you wouldn't do those things, because you are smart enough to realize that “the Word” in #1 refers to a PERSON who is a spokesman for the king, and #2 refers to an order or command the king issued or decreed. And you know that to do those things I mentioned would be nothing but a weak attempt to bring disharmony and confusion into an otherwise easy-to-understand situation.
Why then do you do such things so often when it comes to our scriptural discussions?
If you believe “the word of God” in Hebrews 11:3 refers to God Himself giving a command to cause the universe to be framed, like in the NIV translation……….
By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
……..then you are correct that the phrase “the word of God” in that verse refers, by extension, to God Himself – who is the one who actually framed the universe.
But if that is the case in Heb 11:3, then “the word” mentioned there is not the same “Word” from John 1:1, or Revelation 19:13. Because the “Word” in those two verses is not simply a “command” that God gave. Nor is the “Word” in those two verses God Himself by extension.
If, on the other hand, you believe “the word of God” in Hebrews 11:3 refers to the “thing” that became the flesh being Jesus Christ, then the phrase does NOT, by extension, refer to God Himself in that verse. In that case, the teaching is that the universe was framed through the being known as “the Word of God”.
You cannot just mix and match things to confuse the issue, Kerwin. You can't say that since David was APPOINTED as the “firstborn of the kings of the earth”, Reuben was also APPOINTED as Jacob's “firstborn”. The words have different meanings in different contexts. Are you able to understand this?
So………. what is your CHOICE in Hebrews 11:3? Do you believe that “the word of God” in that verse refers simply to a command God gave for the universe to be created, and therefore, by extension, to God Himself creating the universe?
If so, then you can't equate that understanding with the context of Hebrews 1:2, and say that a mere “command” of God spoke through Jesus to us. See? It is a different context.
On the other hand, if you believe that Hebrews 11:3 speaks about God forming the universe through “His Word”, then “the Word” and “God” are not the same thing. In that case, Hebrews 11:3 is more in line with Hebrews 1:2, and teaches us that God formed the universe through “His Son/The Word”.
I hope this was not too much for you to understand.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 08 2014,20:34) Mike B. I suppose when Jesus said: even the stones; God could
make them glorify Him, is also nonsensical to you.All these are nonsensical to you;
The dead can be resurrected is also nonsensical to you.
The Word of God is a living being is nonsensical.
We are created in the image of the Word;is nosensical.
Nope. Not at all.Now perhaps you can actually address the points I made in my post.
Can “God Himself” be WITH “God Himself”, Wakeup?
If not, then the Word was NOT the very God he was with. And any English translation that asks us to believe that God was with Himself in the beginning is an absurdly flawed translation.
Lose that absurdly flawed translation, and you will be able to make sense of what John wrote in 1:1. And then you can eliminate all the nonsensical theories you've designed in your attempt to make sense out of that one absurdly flawed translation.
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