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To All……….Jesus said (no) man (can) come unto Me except the Father draw Him. This shows that we do not of our own selves go to Jesus but it is a (work) of the Father Not of our so-called “free wills'. Also Paul said said He took no credit for His works, saying “I labored more then all the rest, YET NOT I, BUT THE GRACE OF GOD> Paul did not of his (OWN) so-called “FREE WILL” place himself into the ministry of GOD, He was CAUSED to by The power of GOD, Had God not intervened in His life on the road to Damascus he would have continued to persecute and kill Christians.
The whole Idea of “free Will” salvation is based on the self salvation theology and causes more damage to Christians then most all other false teachings. It produces a I am the GOD of MY OWN DESTINY, by my (free choices) i will be saved and live for ever, it cause (PRIDE and ARROGANCE) to be formed in the mind and produces a sense of self salvation.
Every one who is a true Christian should know we are saved by GRACE (God's influencing on the heart) and GRACE ALONE Not by His works but by the effectual working of the Spirit of God.
Love and peace to you all……………..gene
Hi Nick,
Gene did not say or imply force. Your are not grasping what he is trying to show from the scriptures.
You just said, “grace enables wise choices.”
Are you saying that God gives the grace and then it is our choice to except it, that it is up to us?
Jodi,
The Potter sometimes gives the grace by His choice.
He rewards the ground that soaks up the rain.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 01 2008,10:46) Hi Jodi,
God has evidenced Himself.
Every help is accessible.
To WHO has God evidenced Himself to?And what exactly are these 'helps' that He has made accessible?
Hi Jodi,
All men
Rom1
18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;19Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Acts 17
24God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;25Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
He has now offered salvation in His Son commanding that all must repent.
Acts 17
30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
He has sent preachers and given them the words of God which are the power of salvation unto those who receive them and obey them. Entry into the kingdom by faith thorugh repentance, water and the Spirit releases the grace that is in Jesus to grow and become useful to God's purposes.
God will eventually bring every person into salvation. Those being called now before Christ's return will dwell with him for the thousand years, after the second resurrection is when the rest of mankind will receive salvation.
John 17:25 O righteous Father! The world has not known You, but I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me. 26 And I have declared to them Your name, and will declare it, that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”
John 4:39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed in Him because of the word of the woman who testified, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans had come to Him, they urged Him to stay with them; and He stayed there two days. 41 And many more believed because of His own word. 42 Then they said to the woman, “Now we believe, not because of what you said, for we ourselves have heard Him and we know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.”
John 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.
Isaiah 52:7 How beautiful upon the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news, Who proclaims peace, Who brings glad tidings of good things, Who proclaims salvation, Who says to Zion, “Your God reigns!” 8 Your watchmen shall lift up their voices, With their voices they shall sing together; For they shall see eye to eye When the Lord brings back Zion. 9 Break forth into joy, sing together, You waste places of Jerusalem! For the Lord has comforted His people, He has redeemed Jerusalem. 10 The Lord has made bare His holy arm In the eyes of all the nations; And all the ends of the earth shall see The salvation of our God.
Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea.
Acts 15:15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written: 16 'After this I will return And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, And I will set it up; 17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name, Says the Lord who does all these things.'
Nick, you said, “He has sent preachers and given them the words of God which are the power of salvation unto those who receive them and obey them. Entry into the kingdom by faith thorugh repentance, water and the Spirit releases the grace that is in Jesus to grow and become useful to God's purposes.”
What preachers are you talking about? Could you give me an example of a preacher today that speaks the complete truth with no false doctrines?
And what about those who don't have preachers, or bibles?
If today is what it looks like when God is doing His best job at bringing salvation to the world, He is a pathetic god.
The earth right now is not full of the knowledge of God, but rather the ways of man. The knowledge of God that is spread by mainstream Christianity paints a pathetic cruel god, leaving those with common sense to reject the god that they hear of.
Really Jodi,
How did you come to this extraordinary conclusion?
The ends of the earth shall certainly see the salvation of God.
All will be raised and then the judgement.But the goats will meet the lake of fire
Nick what is the Lake of fire?
Does not the bible say that God refines through fire?
Zec 13:9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The Lord is my God.' “
So are you saying that man's wickedness is ABOVE God's Will?
You give man way to much credit and GROSSLY underestimate the POWER of YHWH!
Humans are pathetic little dweebs, easily influenced. You don't think that it is not just a matter of time that God can make His desires come forth, one of which is to save ALL people?
Nick we are made of DIRT, we have within us the same elements from the periodic table as dirt, no matter how far man strays from the ways of God, no matter how complicated our new inventions of evil ways become, we are still nothing more then dirt. God can and WILL undo the evil in all men.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.
The first death exposed man's weaknesses, what man is without God. As I mentioned in an earlier post, death acts as instruction to the living in various ways, it is a punishment to the living, not to the dead, for they know nothing. Those thrown into the Lake of fire, those of the second death, are those living outside the Great Jerusalem, able to look in and see what man is like with God. Those looking in will realize the error of their ways.
I believe that God's kingdom will be so great in comparison to that of man's, that NO ONE upon seeing the New Jerusalem would deny it and the means of which to achieve it's citizenship.
God does not work in the way I believe you think He does Nick. You really think God's calling is sending a pastor door to door preaching the word and if you deny this preacher you had your chance and now it's too late?
Hi Jodi,
Jesus mentioned the fate of the goats in Mt 25.
It is not to be confues with the fires of testing of the saved.
We expect much tribulation on the way of JesusActs 14:22
strengthening the souls of the disciples, encouraging them to continue in the faith, and saying, ” Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom of God.”Hi Jodi.
You ask “what is the lake of fire?” See Rev.20:14 …14 And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death-the lake of fire.
The “lake of fire” is symbolic, not figurative. The meaning is clear, it is “the second death”, clear and simple. Many will try and use this scripture as a place of torment, “hell”. No such meaning is implied.Blessings.
Quote (chosenone @ Dec. 13 2008,16:40) Hi Jodi.
You ask “what is the lake of fire?” See Rev.20:14 …14 And death and the unseen were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death-the lake of fire.
The “lake of fire” is symbolic, not figurative. The meaning is clear, it is “the second death”, clear and simple. Many will try and use this scripture as a place of torment, “hell”. No such meaning is implied.Blessings.
Jodi.
Hope you are still with us.Blessings.
Hi,
Mt24
44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Do you think the will of God is that men should be focussed on trying to convince others that Satan does not exist and we can put our feet up as all are saved?
To all………Those who did not put their (WILLS) to Death in the first Life will Have to in the Second LIfe this is what it means by the (SECOND) DEATH. “who so ever loveth His LIFE will Loose it, and whose so ever will loose his life shall save it. For Some this will takes place in the second resurrection, at that time they will loose their life through intense judgments. (THE WAY THEY LIVE) is what being talked about. And if they don't now, then they will have to later a (SECOND DEATH). Those who God is working with now are now going through Fiery trials as Scripture plainly says.” Knowing this firey trial which is trying you as if some strange thing is happening to you”. And again “for you shall (ALL) be salted withe Fire”.
love and peace to you all…………….gene
GB,
So the second death is not the lake of fire into which goats are sent.
'Intense judgements' cause sinner's death but do not bring repentance?
But men never needed to repent anyway as an amnesty has been declared?
Peter was warning the idolatrous heathen about fiery trials and not the saved?You certainly do have your own individual doctrine.
Why not believe scripture rather than being a clanging cymbal?1 Peter 4:18
AND IF IT IS WITH DIFFICULTY THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS SAVED, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THE GODLESS MAN AND THE SINNER?Nick……….NO,NO,NO,NO, Nick, calm down you going into overload, i never said any of that, with the exception of the first statement , but the answers to all are NO. and it your errors in understands the the clanging cymbal here not what i said, which you miss quoted again brother.
The Will oF GOD is as He stated it, For God is not (WILLING) that ANY PARISH. The difference between us is i believe the FATHER is very capable to bring about His WILL. and You do NOT believe it. It's Just that simple. IMO
peace…………………..gene
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