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t8,
I saw the telescoping argument of the godandscience site and according to its reasoning Jude was mistaken when he claimed Enoch was the seventh from Adam.
t8,
You are putting to much faith is science, which is the doctrine of man. For instance the definition of species is spurious. According to one definition people born in America and people born in Europe would be two different species if technology did not bridge the gap between those two continents.
Do not be to quick to trust the people that interpret the evidence they find either in nature or in the bible. Their flesh nature is prone to bias their opinions.
You are putting to much faith is science, which is the doctrine of man. For instance the definition of species is spurious.
When are you going to make a post that is right Kerwin. I do not say that this video is correct or make statements that I back the science. I haven’t made any comment on this video. Can you see one. When I post videos to the forum it is so I and others can critique them.
If you can be wrong in your post, then what else are you wrong about. Something for you to think about Kerwin.
When are you going to make a post that is right Kerwin. …. If you can be wrong in your post, then what else are you wrong about. Something for you to think about Kerwin.
So long as we agree with you, we are saints (in your eyes), t8?
Tut tut – learned long ago not to trust man, and their approval, or lack of.
I already knew about the Epic of Gilgamesh, that the video spends some time on, but it is interesting that the Genesis flood story matches the one in Gilgamesh on the main points such as a world-wide flood, a saved family, animals brought onto an ark, and a bird sent out to find dry land. It seems logical that either the biblical account derived from a Mesopotamian account because it is older or that the Biblical account was indeed inspired while the Mesopotamian could have been orally passed down and suffered some mistakes from retelling. The way the Noah flood story follows the Gilgamesh flood story point by point and in the same order is quite astounding though. This leads me to another possibility.
If the Book of Enoch is legit, then part of it came from the ark as it contains accounts about Noah before the flood and of course Enoch who was the great-grandfather of Noah. The Book of Enoch asserts that its author was Enoch, before the Biblical Flood, thus it is not hard to see the possibility that Noah could have taken his great-grandfather’s writings with him to the ark then continued to write after the flood with the account of the flood. Perhaps the biblical source is rooted in that, while the Mesopotamian account also comes from this source too, but the two writings diverged.
So long as we agree with you, we are saints (in your eyes), t8?
What are you on about. It seems a number of people who come here love to accuse falsely or draw wrong conclusions about what I say.
Agreeing with me or anyone else here has nothing to do with salvation.
I just wish some people here would grow up.
Just keep it true if you guys can. Avoid the misconceptions, misunderstanding, and following the desires of the flesh. Try not be so human. We are destined for divine nature. Please act in the way appropriate to the destiny God has for you.
t8,
Perhaps I could have been more diplomatic and said “do not trust the conclusions of science”. Just because they claim two different types of creatures are different species does not make it true. For example the wolf species and dog species freely breed together and yet some scientists claim they are different species. I instead view them as the same kind that God has changed over time to adapt to new environments so that they would fill the niches that he appointed them to fill. This is the same with other creatures.
Some hold that the horse and donkey are different kinds because their offspring are infertile but in reality there are rare cases when there offspring are fertile. Again I view them as one kind that God has changed in order to fit the niche he appointed them. The mule too, though often infertile, has its niche.
Perhaps I could have been more diplomatic and said “do not trust the conclusions of science”.
Kerwin. When a person posts a video with no accompanying text, then how can you make a judgement on the person’s view of the video. The forums here are for holding firmly to the truth, encouraging by sound doctrine, & refuting those who oppose it, as well as testing all things. So subjects and arguments may be presented that are not held by the poster.
A video that is posted with no text just means that it is there for criticizing purposes, what else? If I had said, “I agree with everything in the video” then you have a license to reply in the manner you have. A better response from you that would have saved much carfuffle would be to say something like: “people should not trust the conclusions of science”. Then I would have agreed and we would all live happily ever after. Remember that blessed are the peace makers and we should make every effort to have unity. Causing disunity over little things is for foolish people. Yes we have to disagree seriously on bigger more important issues if they are wrong. On the finer detail of less important things though, we can keep the conversation more open and cheerful.
Yes I know that some here mandatorily disagree with everything that others say here and believe they alone have the truth, but we do not have to be like them and respond in like manner. They may set the tone for conversations they engage in, but we can act in a better way that is befitting a son of God.
On the subject of species, I think the Bible mentions ‘kinds’, not ‘species’. So it is possible that from one pair of cats, came all cat species. The idea that Noah took with him every cat species on Earth is well let’s say, difficult for many to accept. Then add to that every dog species, every ant species, every marsupial, bat, lemur, crocodile, frog… and you have some tale.
“Nebuchadnezzar the king, unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.” (Daniel 4:1) “O king, the Most High God gave your father Nebuchadnezzar sovereignty and greatness and glory and splendor. Because of the high position he gave him, all the peoples and nations and men of every language dreaded and feared him,” (Daniel 5:18, 19).
Did that include China?
“Men of all nations came to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, sent by all the kings of the world, who had heard of his wisdom,” (I Kings 4:34)
Did that include any nations in the Americas?
“the kings of Assyria have laid waste all the nations, and their countries.” Isaiah 37:18
Did that include any nation in Oceania?
“As I was considering, suddenly a male goat came from the west, across the surface of the whole earth,” (Daniel 8:5)
Did Alexander the Great travel through Australia?
So then, what do these verses and others really mean? How should we read concerning the flood in Noah’s time?
- Zechariah 14:2 “For I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem for battle”
- Matthew 25:32 “I will also gather all nations”
- Joel 3:2 “I will gather all nations”
“All the nations” and “the earth” is not the entire globe, though the translation may seem to allude to it as such. The problem is that the translation at times makes it difficult since – in English – “the earth” tends to mean “the entire globe” and in Hebrew the word “Eretz” commonly means “the land” and not “the entire globe.”
Source: http://www.alamongordo.com/america-in-bible-prophecy/
Disclaimer: Links to other sites does not mean I agree with all that these external sites teach. Linking to them is to show the source and what I quote is what is relevant to the discussion. Please do not start debating about the owners of the site or other things they may teach. I link to other sites and copy and paste to save time. Somebody has already taken the time to articulate what I want to say. It’s that simple.
@t8,
I agree that translators make errors in their translation due to their biases but we also have the depth of the flood and it was deep enough to cover certain mountains. Such a flood is greater than any indicated by the interpretation of what ever evidence of flood we have found. The depth given in Scripture would not cover the whole earth at the current time but the altitude of most if not all of the parts would be fairly high and therefore at least somewhat inhospitable. Of course Noah and family would have been as the level of the seas which would not have been much better.
T8… THE ARK SETTLED ON MOUNTAINS OR HILLS OF ARARAT AND WATER SEEKS IT OWN LEVEL, SO BY TAKING THE HIGHTH OF MOUNT ARATE WOULD GIVE A FAIR IDEA OF ITS COVERAGE OF THE EARTH RIGHT? BUT I AM NOT TO SURE THE ARK DID SETTLE ON THE TOP OF IT, MAYBE IT WAS JUST SOME WHERE ON THE SIDE OF IT, BECAUSE THE DOVE BROUGHT BACK A OLIVE LEAF, AND I DO NOT THINK AN OLIVE TREE COULD LIVE AT THE TOP OF ARARAT IT IS COVERED WITH SNOW YEAR ROUND, SO IT MAY HAVE SETTLED JUST OME WHERE AT A LOWER LOCATION ON THE MOUNT. BUT THAT COULD HAVE BEEN AFTER THE WATER SUBSIDED to a lower level from its peak hight.
Scripture also uses the word for hills and mountans enterchangeabely, compare GEN17:18 AND 19. same word used for both.
BUT if the water did cover mount ARARAT it would have had to be 16,854 feet deep, and if it did it would have covered nearly all the earth. IMO.
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
I have to check this out, but it supposedly doesn’t say Mt Ararat, but the mountains of Ararat, i.e;, a range/area/location. Not a specific mountain.
Okay I checked it out here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountains_of_Ararat
The “Mountains of Ararat” in Genesis clearly refer to a general region, not a specific mountain. Biblical Ararat corresponds to Ancient Assyrian Urartu (and Old Persian Armina) the name of the kingdom which at the time controlled the Lake Van region.
The Book of Jubilees (7:1) specifies that the Ark came to rest on one of the peaks of the “Mountains of Ararat” called “Lubar”.
Hi Proclaimer
You
Many say that the Ottoman Empire for example cannot be the seventh king after the sixth which we know is Rome. They cite that it was not a significant empire. How wrong they are. It ruled for centuries over the Middle East and great parts of Europe. It wasn’t any less than any other empire (head) before it.
The belief that the Beast or Antichrist will rule over the whole planet including USA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand just doesn’t hold up. Sure this could happen, but not because the Bible says the ‘ the whole earth’ or ‘every nation’. In fact we are told that the Beast rises out of ‘The Great Sea’ which we know is the Mediterranean Sea.
Me
In fact we are told that the Beast rises out of ‘The Great Sea’ which we know is the Mediterranean Sea.
The great sea, méditerranean sea???
Sea symbolize thath IS WRITTEN in Revelation 17:15
IN Dan.7
[1] In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
[2] Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.SO
“The sea can represent peoples, nations, the restless masses of humans opposed to God.
►Sea refers to large unstable expanses of salt water subjected to the action of the wind.
The agitation of the sea is manifested by the breaking of the tumultuous waves, the propagation of the swell, the rumbling of the rushing waters, the foam of the raging sea, the effervescence of the eddy, the crash of the surf, the displacement of the currents maritime …
The sea characterized by movement, instability, restlessness, raging waves and roaring waves is associated with restless humanity far from God. The sea is sometimes used in the Bible to refer to the many peoples, nations, restless masses of humans from which governments originate.
Isaiah 17:12, 13: “12 Oh! What a roaring of innumerable peoples, who howl like the roar of the sea! And what a roaring of the nations like the roaring of rushing waters: 13 the nations utter a roaring like that of great waters. ” – Sower
Psalms 98: 7: “Let the sea resound, and all that populates it!” May the universe resonate with its inhabitants! “- Sower
Psalm 65: 8: “He calms the roaring of the seas, the roaring of their waves, and the tumult of the peoples”.
– New Segond Bible
Isaiah 57:20, 21: “As for the wicked, they will be like the stormy sea which cannot be stilled, and whose water lifts up mud and dirt. 21 “But, said God, there is no peace with the wicked.”
Jude 1:13: “These are raging waves of the sea that throw up the scum of their impurities (…). ”
James 1: 5-7: “5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who will give it to him, for he gives generously to all and without reproaching. 6 However, he must ask it in faith, without doubting, for he who doubts is like the waves of the sea stirred up and lifted by the wind. 7 Let such a man not imagine obtaining anything from the Lord. 8 His heart is divided, he is inconstant in all his undertakings. ”
Jeremiah 50:42: “They take hold of the bow and the javelin. They are cruel and show no compassion. Their voice roars like the sea. ”
Jeremiah 6:23: “They take hold of the bow and the spear, they are cruel and ruthless, and they howl like the sea!” ”
– Sower
Jeremiah 49:23: “Prophecy on Damascus:” Hamath as well as Arpad are covered with shame. Because they have learned bad news. They are demoralized: it is the sea in turmoil that cannot be appeased. ”- Semeur
Ezekiel 26: 3: “This is why the Lord GOD says thus: I attack you, Tire; I will rise up against you nations, peoples in great numbers, as the sea raises up her raging waves. “- Sower
► Jehovah God promises those who trust him:
Psalm 23: 2: “He guides me near still waters. He restores my soul, he leads me in the paths of righteousness, because of his name ”.
►Currents, eddies, surf, the agitation of tumultuous waters lift the silt and debris deposited at the bottom of the water, nothing is hidden there. Everything comes to be discovered.
Isaiah 57:20, 21: “As for the wicked, they will be like the stormy sea which cannot be stilled, and whose water lifts up mud and dirt. 21 “But, said God, there is no peace with the wicked.”
Luke 12: 2: “There is nothing hidden that shall not be discovered, nor secret that shall not be known”
► Regularly, natural disasters due to the raging sea, such as tidal waves, storms, tsunamis, cause very significant damage.
Symbolically speaking, the rough sea of social order is also the source of great destruction within mankind.”
https://www.apocalypse-enfin-clair.com/l-apocalypse-d%C3%A9voil%C3%A9e/index/mer/
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