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Hi 94,
You are right in that even Mt 25 saves those who express faith in God and Jesus some simple way by helping christians.Motive still remains important and it must express faith as whatever is not of faith is of sin.
So humanism is excluded.
Hi 94,
You say
“My understanding is that those in the OT era from the beginning until Jesus who were not saved have already been judged, and are dead. The will not be resurrected to incur further judgment in the second resurrection.”I believe scripture does say any who have ever lived will be resurrected.
All hades and death and even the seas will be emptied of men.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2009,10:22) Hi 94,
You are right in that even Mt 25 saves those who express faith in God and Jesus some simple way by helping christians.Motive still remains important and it must express faith as whatever is not of faith is of sin.
So humanism is excluded.
Hi Nick:I believe that these verses will help in understanding how those in Matthew 25 are saved:
Quote Mat 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Mat 10:41 He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward.
Mat 10:42 And whosoever shall give to drink unto one of these little ones a cup of cold [water] only in the name of a disciple, verily I say unto you, he shall in no wise lose his reward.Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2009,10:26) Hi 94,
You say
“My understanding is that those in the OT era from the beginning until Jesus who were not saved have already been judged, and are dead. The will not be resurrected to incur further judgment in the second resurrection.”I believe scripture does say any who have ever lived will be resurrected.
All hades and death and even the seas will be emptied of men.
Nick:And so, what about the following scripture?
Quote Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. The scripture states that these suffered the vengeance of eternal fire.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2009,12:44) Hi 94,
Why are you confused about the lake of fire?
That is for the goats after the judgement
Hi Nick:I don't believe that I am confused. Judgment in the NT era is reserved unto the last day,
“Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”but in the OT judgment has already been rendered. Judgment was pronunced to Adam and Eve after they disobeyed God. And those who lived from Adam unto the flood suffered the same judgment. Enoch was saved saved from this generation, and those to whom Noah preached and who did not believe his testimony were destroyed by the flood (Is this God's judgment upon the wicked of this generation or not?). Noah and his family were saved by the Ark which is symbolic of the Ark today which is the body of Christ. Pharoah and his army were judged as they pursued the children of Israel and were destroyed as the waters of Red Sea closed in on them. Sodom and Gomorrah suffered the vengeance of eternal fire. Those in the land of Canaan, the land of promise which is symbolic of the land that is promised to God's children, were destroyed by the sword. Those in the land of Canaan were idolators. Those under the law of Moses until Jesus were judged by the Law. And so the scripture states:
QUOTE]Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Hbr 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
[/QUOTE]And so, why do you always assume that it is the other person who is confused. Could it be that your understanding is not correct?
Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:Does this only apply to some men?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2009,15:09) Hi 94,
Hebrews 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:Does this only apply to some men?
Hi Nick:Adam died spiritually and then came the judgment of God for his disobedience.
All we, humanity, have sinned and were at one time spiritually dead to God in our trespasses.
The judgment for this first death or spiritual separation from God has been paid by our Lord Jesus.
Those who are alive when the Lord comes for the church who have received the mark of the beast will be judged by the seven last plagues.
As I have shown you by the scriptures judgment in the NT era has been delayed until the last days.
Those who have died in their sins will have to go through a second death or eternal separation from God. The judgment for the first death was paid, but they did not choose to accept God's mercy.
And so, the scripture that you quoted speaks of a spiritual death and then the judgment.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Nick Hassan @ May 05 2009,15:55) Hi 94,
So you do not think the verse in Hebrews applies to all men but only some that you specify?
Hi Nick:It applies to all men. The wages of sin is death. Those in the OT have already been judged.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
Where does it say that only those after the time of John face the final judgement?
The rest are shown to be in sheol or the bosom of Abraham before then.
These places of waiting are to be emptied and thrown into the fire.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 06 2009,10:04) Hi 94,
Death comes to all men.
Why do you say it is only once for these men?
Hi Nick:The scripture states “sin is not imputed where there is no law”. Gentile nations in the OT were not under the law.
Those under the Law of Moses were judged by the Law.
You are looking at this as if the scripture that you quoted in Hebrews 9 is speaking of judgment after a physical death, but I believe that this is speaking of judgment coming after a spiritual death which includes physical death.
I don't have any one scripture which states that only those in the NT era who died in their sins will be resurrected to incur judgment.
But Jesus stated:
Quote Jhn 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Jhn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.Therefore, those who heard the gospel and died in their sins prior to the coming of the Lord have not been judged, and that is why they will have to be raised in the second resurrection to incur judgment.
You are trying to understand the judgment of God on the basis of a parable. What I understand about this subject is based on the overview of the scriptures.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi Nick:
We have the following scriptures pertaining to judgment.
Quote Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you,Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
Jhn 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Jhn 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 5:28 states “that all that are in the grave shall come forth”, but I believe that this statement can be qualified by John 5:25 which states:
Quote , The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live Quote, Marty
John 5:28 states “that all that are in the grave shall come forth”, but I believe that this statement can be qualified by John 5:25 which states: Quote
, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live
———————————————————-Jesus is the light and the life of the world, those that did not listen to him then, and those that don't listen to him now, his word, are considered dead.
To be considered among the living, you have to hear, and believe his word.Hi 94,
Men are men of any generation and the earth will be emptied of all men who will face judgement.Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 08 2009,05:42) Hi 94,
Men are men of any generation and the earth will be emptied of all men who will face judgement.
Hi Nick:Do you have a scripture to support your belief?
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Cindy @ May 07 2009,21:47) Quote, Marty
John 5:28 states “that all that are in the grave shall come forth”, but I believe that this statement can be qualified by John 5:25 which states: Quote
, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live
———————————————————-Jesus is the light and the life of the world, those that did not listen to him then, and those that don't listen to him now, his word, are considered dead.
To be considered among the living, you have to hear, and believe his word.
I agree with your statement.Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
I think it is contingent on you to show written that only some natural men are judged.
So far you have just presented your own ideas on this.Quote (942767 @ May 08 2009,08:57) Quote (Cindy @ May 07 2009,21:47) Quote, Marty
John 5:28 states “that all that are in the grave shall come forth”, but I believe that this statement can be qualified by John 5:25 which states: Quote
, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live
———————————————————-Jesus is the light and the life of the world, those that did not listen to him then, and those that don't listen to him now, his word, are considered dead.
To be considered among the living, you have to hear, and believe his word.
I agree with your statement.Love in Christ,
Marty
And does it appear that throughout history God has given EVERY man, woman, and child the equal ability to hear and except the word of Jesus?Some crack head baby raised with no morals or values…what is there fair chance exactly…that they passed up buying a bible at the $1 store?? That person dies in a car accident….are they then considered dead having not accepted Jesus?
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