The Way

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,00:35)

Hi LU,
Yes but Jesus was not forever one with God but became one with him.

He was not a clone or an outcrop of God.

He is the Son of God filled with God's Spirit making them one and we follow him.

Nick,
I believe that the Son had a beginning, you know that. But from His beginning He was never separated from His Father…He was always united by Spirit with His Father. He was not a clone but a son.

July 20, 2009 at 4:45 am#138131

Participant

Hi LU,
Sort of an amorphous double god ?

July 20, 2009 at 5:25 am#138132

Participant

No Nick,
A Father who happens to be the Most High God and His only offspring.

July 20, 2009 at 5:26 am#138133

Participant

Hi LU,
Only son?
God had other sons[jb38, ps 97etc]

July 20, 2009 at 5:29 am#138134

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,23:54)

Hi WJ,
Does scripture tell you to follow God?
Or, like BD, have you just chosen to try this?

Hi NH

Be ye therefore “followers of God“, as dear children; Eph 5:1

'Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; Titus 1:1

“James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. James 1:1

Yet the Apostles also say that they are “Bond slaves” (doulos) of Christ.

Peter, James and Paul claims they are (doulos) of Christ.

Paul almost invariably starts all of his writings with this claim!

The Greek word “Strong's G1401 – doulos” means…

1) a slave, bondman, man of servile condition

a) a slave

b) metaph., one who gives himself up to another's will those whose service is used by Christ in extending and advancing his cause among men

c) devoted to another to the disregard of one's own interests

2) a servant, attendant

While it can be applied to men serving men, yet when applied to Jesus it must be understood as a complete and total abandonment, devotion and commitment without reservation as one who is the property of another.

In other words, the relationship of a Master and his slave!

For truly scriptures tell us that we have only “one Master”…

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny “our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ“. Jude 1:4

Jesus even said himself…

Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “If anyone would come after me, “he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me“. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but “whoever loses his life for me and for the gospel will save it“. Mark 8:34-35

Jesus is making a demand of total unreserved commitment to him even to death. This means that men were to be martyrs for him.

Anti-trinitarians do not put all the pieces together, for if they did then they would know that only “God” could make such claims and demands on men!

Jesus claims ownership of all that are his!

This kind of devotion to any being other than God to a Monotheistic Hebrews perspective would be considered Idolatry! And no Hebrew would ever demand a Hebrew to serve him in that fashion!

Now I can here the unbelievers saying…

But God gave Jesus this authority and power!

But the kind of devotion that we are to give to the Son is equal to the devotion we would give to the Father.

The Father shares this devotion with Jesus as he does his Glory, because Jesus is God, one with the Father and the Spirit!

Paul says he is a prisoner of Jesus Christ! That kind of unreserved devotion even to death is reserved for God only!

Jesus said…

“No servant can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other… Luke 16:13

July 20, 2009 at 5:39 am#138135

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,01:26)

Hi LU,
Only son?
God had other sons[jb38, ps 97etc]

Hi Nick,
No, He did not have any other sons that were begotten. His other sons were created.

July 20, 2009 at 5:41 am#138136

Participant

H WJ,
I love it,
You present similar scriptures about God and His son and then the denouement-they are one and the same?
Nonsense.

Jesus is the Son of God.
There is no trinity written.

July 20, 2009 at 5:43 am#138137

Participant

Hi Keith,
Jesus never goes against His Father's will and therefore if we obey all that Jesus tells us we also line up with His Father's will perfectly. Jesus never goes against His Father's will. Therefore, we have no problem getting our direction from Jesus or His Father, either way it will be the same direction. IMO

Blessings,
Kathi

July 20, 2009 at 5:48 am#138138

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,01:41)

H WJ,
I love it,
You present similar scriptures about God and His son and then the denouement-they are one and the same?
Nonsense.

Jesus is the Son of God.
There is no trinity written.

What you do not love is you were caught in your own words…

You said…

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,23:54)

Hi WJ,
Does scripture tell you to follow God?
Or, like BD, have you just chosen to try this?

So I give you scripture…

Be ye therefore “followers of God“, as dear children; Eph 5:1

'Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; Titus 1:1

“James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting. James 1:1

How many Lords do you serve?

July 20, 2009 at 5:54 am#138139

Participant

Hi WJ,
Imitators of GOD.
Possible only in the grace of God's Spirit.
Do you not accept the APPOINTED Lordship of Jesus Christ?
He is your lord and the Father is your God if you are one of US[1Cor8]

July 20, 2009 at 5:59 am#138140

Participant

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2009,01:43)

Blessings,
Kathi

Hi Kathi

But we are not just talking about following the Fathers will as a man would follow the teachings of the Father from a teacher!

We are talking about unreserved devotion, commitment, and abondonment to another as a slave to his master (owner), and even to die for them! Jesus himself placed this demand on his followers!

That is reserved for God only!

July 20, 2009 at 6:01 am#138141

Participant

Hi WJ,
Just as Jesus served his God.
We follow him

July 20, 2009 at 6:02 am#138142

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,01:54)

Hi WJ,
Imitators of GOD.
Possible only in the grace of God's Spirit.
Do you not accept the APPOINTED Lordship of Jesus Christ?
He is your lord and the Father is your God if you are one of US[1Cor8]

No NH

You said…

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,23:54)

Hi WJ,
Does scripture tell you to follow God?
Or, like BD, have you just chosen to try this?

The scriptures say…

Be ye therefore “followers of God“, as dear children; Eph 5:1

I realize this blows your theory out the window that we have to see Jesus as a mere mortal man in order to follow him.

Let God be true and everyman a liar!

July 20, 2009 at 6:08 am#138143

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 20 2009,02:01)

Hi WJ,
Just as Jesus served his God.
We follow him

You are now contradicting yourself. You say no man can follow God yet now you say Jesus did. So if you think Jesus is just a man then why do you think you cannot follow God?

Why do you follow him Jesus, if you do not think he is your master and owner?

If Jesus is just your brother and serves the Father as you do, then why serve Jesus and give him unreserved devotion like you would to the Father?

Why not just serve the Father?

July 20, 2009 at 6:25 am#138144

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 20 2009,01:59)

Quote (Lightenup @ July 20 2009,01:43)

Blessings,
Kathi

Hi Kathi

But we are not just talking about following the Fathers will as a man would follow the teachings of the Father from a teacher!

We are talking about unreserved devotion, commitment, and abondonment to another as a slave to his master (owner), and even to die for them! Jesus himself placed this demand on his followers!

That is reserved for God only!

Hi Keith,
I hope to give unreserved devotion to the Father and to His Son.
I hope to give commitment and abandonment as a slave to his master to the Father and to the Son.
I hope to be willing to die for either of them.

The reason…because I believe that is the will of the Father. And, if it is the will of the Father, it is also the will of the Son. They are in agreement. If I follow the Son, I also follow the Father and visa versa.

Kathi

July 20, 2009 at 6:29 am#138145

Participant

Hi WJ,
I never thought I would hear you trying to bypass the appointed mediator and make yourself lord while still claiming to serve God.

July 20, 2009 at 6:37 am#138146

Participant

Hi WJ,
Are you following Jesus or just worshiping him as God?
Where did Jesus say true worshipers worship himself?

July 20, 2009 at 3:00 pm#138167

KangarooJack

Participant

WorshippingJesus wrote:

Quote

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny “our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ”. Jude 1:4

WJ,
Good verse bro!

thinker

July 20, 2009 at 3:03 pm#138168