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Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,06:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,13:54) Hi kj,
God is merciful.
Mercy triumphs over judgement.
But those who have heard the message and not responded take a great risk
That's a vague response. Seriously, what of those who have never heard the gospel? Surely this is not that hard of a question to answer.
Hi KJ,
Vague?
What do we know of their fate?
We do know God is merciful and it is His business.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,14:06) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,06:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,13:54) Hi kj,
God is merciful.
Mercy triumphs over judgement.
But those who have heard the message and not responded take a great risk
That's a vague response. Seriously, what of those who have never heard the gospel? Surely this is not that hard of a question to answer.
Hi KJ,
Vague?
What do we know of their fate?
We do know God is merciful and it is His business.
Yes vague. Because if you believe salvation hinges on accepting Jesus, then you must believe that those who have never heard will be condemned. However, if you believe God will instead judge those who have not heard by their lives, are you not doing more harm than good by telling them of Jesus? After all, if they do not see a need for Jesus in their lives but they are great humanitarians regardless, you are condemning them by telling them.Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:01) 94, That being the case, would it not be better to not spread this gospel if rejection will lead to eternal damnation? Aren't the ignorant better off?
Absolutely not. How would anyone not want to know how wonderful my God and Father is and what He has done in order for me to have a personal relationship with Him.The qestion is, “How can anyone in their right mind reject what God has done for them in the Person of Jesus Christ?”
Jesus is God's “Gift of Love to humanity”.
If someone chooses to be destroyed, that is his choice, but not a very wise one. Nevertheless, his choice.
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,14:06) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,06:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,13:54) Hi kj,
God is merciful.
Mercy triumphs over judgement.
But those who have heard the message and not responded take a great risk
That's a vague response. Seriously, what of those who have never heard the gospel? Surely this is not that hard of a question to answer.
Hi KJ,
Vague?
What do we know of their fate?
We do know God is merciful and it is His business.
Yes vague. Because if you believe salvation hinges on accepting Jesus, then you must believe that those who have never heard will be condemned. However, if you believe God will instead judge those who have not heard by their lives, are you not doing more harm than good by telling them of Jesus? After all, if they do not see a need for Jesus in their lives but they are great humanitarians regardless, you are condemning them by telling them.
Hi KJ,
You must have missed many of my posts if this is what you think I believe.
In fact it is my belief that many more will enter the kingdom though the mercy of God than the way of Jesus[Mt25]
But it is just my belief.
Those who work one hour earn the same wage.Quote (942767 @ Jan. 17 2008,14:14) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:01) 94, That being the case, would it not be better to not spread this gospel if rejection will lead to eternal damnation? Aren't the ignorant better off?
Absolutely not. How would anyone not want to know how wonderful my God and Father is and what He has done in order for me to have a personal relationship with Him.The qestion is, “How can anyone in their right mind reject what God has done for them in the Person of Jesus Christ?”
Jesus is God's “Gift of Love to humanity”.
If someone chooses to be destroyed, that is his choice, but not a very wise one. Nevertheless, his choice.
So you don't believe in the “good news” (the meaning of “gospel”) but you adhere to the message of fear. Thanks for explaining.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,14:17) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,14:06) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,06:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,13:54) Hi kj,
God is merciful.
Mercy triumphs over judgement.
But those who have heard the message and not responded take a great risk
That's a vague response. Seriously, what of those who have never heard the gospel? Surely this is not that hard of a question to answer.
Hi KJ,
Vague?
What do we know of their fate?
We do know God is merciful and it is His business.
Yes vague. Because if you believe salvation hinges on accepting Jesus, then you must believe that those who have never heard will be condemned. However, if you believe God will instead judge those who have not heard by their lives, are you not doing more harm than good by telling them of Jesus? After all, if they do not see a need for Jesus in their lives but they are great humanitarians regardless, you are condemning them by telling them.
Hi KJ,
You must have missed many of my posts if this is what you think I believe.
In fact it is my belief that many more will enter the kingdom though the mercy of God than the way of Jesus[Mt25]
But it is just my belief.
Those who work one hour earn the same wage.
Not sure Nick. I do recall you use to go round and round with someone called “chosen one” who was certainly a universalist. Yet you're answer here is very similar to universalism. Am I wrong?Kejonn,
I believe that Jesus is the sure way to salvation and our “ticket” to enjoy ruling with Christ during the millinium. I believe that those who have never heard of Jesus are judged at the great white throne judgment by their works. If their works are judged to be selfless they enter into the kingdom (could not have happened without Jesus paying the price) if they're found to be selfish their cast into the lake of fire where they perish after paying their due.We should spread the gospel it is far easier to place your trust in Jesus knowing that God loves you and paid the price for your shortcomings, then to live your life selfless and having to trust in your works, (if you even give thought to eternity).
My opinion – Wm
Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:21) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,14:17) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:09) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,14:06) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,06:59) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2008,13:54) Hi kj,
God is merciful.
Mercy triumphs over judgement.
But those who have heard the message and not responded take a great risk
That's a vague response. Seriously, what of those who have never heard the gospel? Surely this is not that hard of a question to answer.
Hi KJ,
Vague?
What do we know of their fate?
We do know God is merciful and it is His business.
Yes vague. Because if you believe salvation hinges on accepting Jesus, then you must believe that those who have never heard will be condemned. However, if you believe God will instead judge those who have not heard by their lives, are you not doing more harm than good by telling them of Jesus? After all, if they do not see a need for Jesus in their lives but they are great humanitarians regardless, you are condemning them by telling them.
Hi KJ,
You must have missed many of my posts if this is what you think I believe.
In fact it is my belief that many more will enter the kingdom though the mercy of God than the way of Jesus[Mt25]
But it is just my belief.
Those who work one hour earn the same wage.
Not sure Nick. I do recall you use to go round and round with someone called “chosen one” who was certainly a universalist. Yet you're answer here is very similar to universalism. Am I wrong?
Hi KJ,
Do I think all will be saved?
No.
Otherwise there would be no goats in mt 25Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:19) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 17 2008,14:14) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:01) 94, That being the case, would it not be better to not spread this gospel if rejection will lead to eternal damnation? Aren't the ignorant better off?
Absolutely not. How would anyone not want to know how wonderful my God and Father is and what He has done in order for me to have a personal relationship with Him.The qestion is, “How can anyone in their right mind reject what God has done for them in the Person of Jesus Christ?”
Jesus is God's “Gift of Love to humanity”.
If someone chooses to be destroyed, that is his choice, but not a very wise one. Nevertheless, his choice.
So you don't believe in the “good news” (the meaning of “gospel”) but you adhere to the message of fear. Thanks for explaining.
I believe in the “good news”, but I also believe that there is a day of judgment for every one, and that is good news also.The law was given to Israel, but the law is written in the hearts of all men (Gentiles).
Conscience: con=with science=knowledgeAll men have knowledge of right and wrong.
The gospel doesn't make it harder it makes it clearer just as the law did.
Whereas before you had conscience alone to go by, it is somewhat blurry trying to figure out all things by that alone. The law made it clearer (thou shalt not), but it didn't expose the motives and righteousness (thou shalt).
The gospel is an important message. It fulfills.
Nothing has changed, it's just clearer now. We have a greater revelation.
As for the person who did good but rejects the gospel, well what was their good worth in the first place if they reject God's son in their heart? That is the same as rejecting God. If they didn't hear the gospel, then there heart hasn't changed has it?
The gospel has made that persons motives clearer only. The gospel gives understanding to the mind.
God knows the heart, we often only see the outward appearance.
E.g., Jesus knew the Pharisees. He wasn't fooled by their outward righteous appearance even though they followed the law.
And the gospel isn't a stumbling block to anyone.
If they reject the truth, then God knew their heart before, even if they were doing humanitarian work.
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 18 2008,07:26) Kejonn,
I believe that Jesus is the sure way to salvation and our “ticket” to enjoy ruling with Christ during the millinium. I believe that those who have never heard of Jesus are judged at the great white throne judgment by their works. If their works are judged to be selfless they enter into the kingdom (could not have happened without Jesus paying the price) if they're found to be selfish their cast into the lake of fire where they perish after paying their due.We should spread the gospel it is far easier to place your trust in Jesus knowing that God loves you and paid the price for your shortcomings, then to live your life selfless and having to trust in your works, (if you even give thought to eternity).
My opinion – Wm
Why are you having to discuss if Jesus is the way if this is the “BELIEVERS PLACE”?
Maybe the title should be changed to “IF you believe in Jesus Place” Then the discussion would warrant what kejonn keeps talking about.
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 17 2008,14:39) The law was given to Israel, but the law is written in the hearts of all men (Gentiles).
Conscience: con=with science=knowledgeAll men have knowledge of right and wrong.
The gospel doesn't make it harder it makes it clearer just as the law did.
Whereas before you had conscience alone to go by, it is somewhat blurry trying to figure out all things by that alone. The law made it clearer (thou shalt not), but it didn't expose the motives and righteousness (thou shalt).
The gospel is an important message. It fulfills.
Nothing has changed, it's just clearer now. We have a greater revelation.
As for the person who did good but rejects the gospel, well what was their good worth in the first place if they reject God's son in their heart? That is the same as rejecting God. If they didn't hear the gospel, then there heart hasn't changed has it?
The gospel has made that persons motives clearer only. The gospel gives understanding to the mind.
God knows the heart, we often only see the outward appearance.
E.g., Jesus knew the Pharisees. He wasn't fooled by their outward righteous appearance even though they followed the law.
And the gospel isn't a stumbling block to anyone.
If they reject the truth, then God knew their heart before, even if they were doing humanitarian work.
What is the basis of this thinking t8? Are you saying that if one does not accept Jesus when presented with the gospel, then they must be evil hearted? There are people in this world who aren't Christians who are closer to the spirit of God than many Christians.So basically a man can be kind to all (with a few slip ups obviously), a good father and husband, giving, loving, etc. and be rejected by God because he didn't accept Jesus while a death bed confession by a serial killer will allow access to the pearly gates?
Seriously, now do you know why people like Stu and Tow reject this? What if you've really missed the point of the gospel?
Kejonn,
Be encouraged. You are asking questions for a great many of us. We look forward to the answers as you do.
Mandy
Quote (t8 @ Jan. 18 2008,07:39) The law was given to Israel, but the law is written in the hearts of all men (Gentiles).
Conscience: con=with science=knowledgeAll men have knowledge of right and wrong.
The gospel doesn't make it harder it makes it clearer just as the law did.
Whereas before you had conscience alone to go by, it is somewhat blurry trying to figure out all things by that alone. The law made it clearer (thou shalt not), but it didn't expose the motives and righteousness (thou shalt).
The gospel is an important message. It fulfills.
Nothing has changed, it's just clearer now. We have a greater revelation.
As for the person who did good but rejects the gospel, well what was their good worth in the first place if they reject God's son in their heart? That is the same as rejecting God. If they didn't hear the gospel, then there heart hasn't changed has it?
The gospel has made that persons motives clearer only. The gospel gives understanding to the mind.
God knows the heart, we often only see the outward appearance.
E.g., Jesus knew the Pharisees. He wasn't fooled by their outward righteous appearance even though they followed the law.
And the gospel isn't a stumbling block to anyone.
If they reject the truth, then God knew their heart before, even if they were doing humanitarian work.
Hi t8,
And through Jesus Christ came the enabling grace.
John 1:17
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 18 2008,07:47) Kejonn, Be encouraged. You are asking questions for a great many of us. We look forward to the answers as you do.
Mandy
NO! let him rattle on!Quote (942767 @ Jan. 17 2008,14:36) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:19) Quote (942767 @ Jan. 17 2008,14:14) Quote (kejonn @ Jan. 18 2008,07:01) 94, That being the case, would it not be better to not spread this gospel if rejection will lead to eternal damnation? Aren't the ignorant better off?
Absolutely not. How would anyone not want to know how wonderful my God and Father is and what He has done in order for me to have a personal relationship with Him.The qestion is, “How can anyone in their right mind reject what God has done for them in the Person of Jesus Christ?”
Jesus is God's “Gift of Love to humanity”.
If someone chooses to be destroyed, that is his choice, but not a very wise one. Nevertheless, his choice.
So you don't believe in the “good news” (the meaning of “gospel”) but you adhere to the message of fear. Thanks for explaining.
I believe in the “good news”, but I also believe that there is a day of judgment for every one, and that is good news also.
But you seem to be implying that if one does not choose to accept Jesus that they will be destroyed. What of the Jew who has studied Torah all his life and does not see Jesus at all in the Hebrew scriptures? Or the Muslim who believes that God is know through his faith?Quote (Not3in1 @ Jan. 17 2008,14:47) Kejonn, Be encouraged. You are asking questions for a great many of us. We look forward to the answers as you do.
Mandy
Mandy,Nipping flies and yipping chihuahas don't bother me.
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