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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2014,14:11) hi WU,
I cannot see what is not written.
You add those bits
That is very sad to hear.
What bits did I add?wakeup.
Hi WU,
So not saying so means you can add that they are?
Sacred scripture needs more careful handlingQuote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2014,14:20) Hi WU,
So not saying so means you can add that they are?
Sacred scripture needs more careful handling
Nick.show me they are NOT MEN.
wakeup.
Hi WU,
Witnesses in scripture can be lambs, hills, a pillar, goods, sun , moon etcThe descriptions of the witnesses as olive trees and lampstands etc are indications that it is not as simple as you might presume
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2014,14:11) hi WU,
I cannot see what is not written.
You add those bits
NickCan you please show us what is written in YOUR bible.
Hi J42
Rev 11 kjv
'And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Hi J42
NASB
3 And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire flows out of their mouth and devours their enemies; so if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this way. 6 These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which [f]mystically is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 Those from the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their dead [g]bodies for three and a half days, and [h]will not permit their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. 10 And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
11 But after the three and a half days, the breath of life from God came into them, and they stood on their feet; and great fear fell upon those who were watching them. 12 And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them. 13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Nick.
The Lamb of God.
Is He a lamb?He is the light.
Did Jesus walk around glowing like a 1000 wat light?Jesus is the branch.
Is he an olive branch?wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2014,15:47) Hi WU,
Not the depth of analysis I was hoping for.
Nick.So; What about the two olive branches?
Are they olive branches?
Or are they just sumbols for the two prophets?
It clearly says that they are prophesying.
Can the moon prophecy?wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 27 2014,08:21) Marty. 7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; ***but the election hath obtained it***, and the rest. were blinded.
The chosen jews(remnant), will return to their land.
By the election. They will live in paradise.
The resurrected saints will teach.wakeup.
Hi Wakeup:The Jews that are coming back to Israel now are not the elect unless they have believe the gospel and have made Jesus their Lord. The gospel is being preached to them as a nation again at this time.
There was a remnant that came back from the babylonian captivity, and they are part of the elect as well as all who were saved from the time of Jesus ministry until the time of the dispersion that Paul is referring to in the scriptures in Romans 11. He was one of these himself. All of these are in the grave awaiting the resurrection.
But there are those who have been saved since them and will be saved prior to the coming of the Lord for the church,
When Jesus comes for the church, there will not be any who are saved that are left on the earth. The scriptures state that the dead in Christ shall rise first and those who are alive will be changed in a moment and twinkling of an eye and all will meet the Lord in the air to be with him forever more.
The remainder on earth will have receive the mark of the beast, and once the mark of the beast has been received there is no more salvation, and so, no one that is left here after the resurrection will be saved.
And so, I am not following you in what you are stating.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi WU,
This may not be correct but it is how scripture analysis should be done
[shown in partAll New – Updated Godhead Spirit Realm Prophecy Holy Days CommentaryTHE TWO WITNESSES OF REVELATION
In the 11th chapter of Revelation, two mysterious entities are introduced into the story of the end of this current age:
REVELATION 11:3 “And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.” 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire. (NKJV)
Who are these “two witnesses” that God will empower at the end of this age to carry His message to a world ruled by the Antichrist? Some believe that Elijah and Enoch, who were miraculously “taken away” by God (2 Kings 2:11; Gen. 5:24; Heb. 11:5), will return from heaven to prophesy for 3½ years. Others think that it will be Elijah (who stopped the rain in Israel for 3½ years – I Kings 17:1; Jam. 5:17) and Moses (who turned water to blood and brought plagues on Egypt – Exo. 7-12) who will antagonize the Beast during the 42 months of his reign. Some religious organizations believe that the two witnesses will be called from within the ranks of their ministry to perform this task. Another theory is that the Old Testament and the New Testament symbolically comprise these witnesses. But is there any way to really know who the two witnesses will be?
One vital key to understanding biblical prophecy is letting the Bible interpret itself. There are many clues to the identity of the two witnesses, but we have to recognize and accept them.
Let's look at their apparel, which is one of the first clues we're given about these two. They are dressed in sackcloth. What do the Scriptures tell us about the meaning of wearing sackcloth?
ISAIAH 22:12 And in that day the Lord GOD of hosts called for weeping and for mourning, for baldness and for girding with sackcloth. (NKJV)
JEREMIAH 6:26 O daughter of my people, dress in sackcloth and roll about in ashes! Make mourning as for an only son, most bitter lamentation; for the plunderer will suddenly come upon us. (NKJV)
LAMENTATIONS 2:10 The elders of the daughter of Zion sit on the ground and keep silence; they throw dust on their heads and gird themselves with sackcloth. The virgins of Jerusalem bow their heads to the ground. (NKJV)
The Scriptures make it clear that the wearing of sackcloth is a sign of mourning. These two witnesses are clothed in sackcloth because they are officially in mourning. What they are mourning about will be shown later.
Now let's look at the specific role these two fulfill as witnesses. A witness is a person who has seen or knows something, and is therefore capable of giving evidence about it. There are several scriptural passages that explain the role and function which witnesses fulfill:
DEUTERONOMY 17:6 “Whoever is deserving of death shall be put to death on the testimony of two or three witnesses; he shall not be put to death on the testimony of one witness. 7 The hands of the witnesses shall be the first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So you shall put away the evil from among you.” (NKJV)
DEUTERONOMY 19:15 “One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits; by the mouth of two or three witnesses the matter shall be established.” (NKJV)
It is a clear principle in the Torah that the testimony of only one witness is not enough to convict a person of a capital crime. It takes a minimum of TWO witnesses to convict someone for the death penalty (or any other sin, for that matter). This same principle is repeated by both Yeshua and Paul in the New Testament:
MATTHEW 18:16 “But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' ” (NKJV)
II CORINTHIANS 13:1 This will be the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.” (NKJV)
According to the Scriptures, there must be two witnesses to an act in order for the sentence of the Law to be carried out. Since those who accept the mark of the beast and worship him will “drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation” (Rev. 14:10), at least two witnesses to their sins will be necessary to convict and punish them.
Who are the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation 11? Let's look elsewhere in the Bible to see if God identifies who His witnesses are and what they will testify about:
ISAIAH 43:1 But now, thus says the LORD, who created you, O Jacob, and He who formed you, O Israel: “Fear not, for I have redeemed you; I have called you by your name; You are Mine. . . .” 10 “You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and My servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe Me and understand that I am He. Before Me no god was formed, nor will there be one after Me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from Me there is no savior. 12 I have revealed and saved and proclaimed — I, and not some foreign god among you. You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD, “that I am God.” (NIV)
ISAIAH 44:1 But now hear, O Jacob My servant, Israel whom I have chosen! 2 Thus says the LORD who made you, who formed you in the womb and will help you: Do not fear, O Jacob My servant, Jeshurun whom I have chosen. 3 For I will pour water on the thirsty land, and streams on the dry ground; I will pour My spirit upon your descendants, and My blessing on your offspring. 4 They shall spring up like a green tamarisk, like willows by flowing streams. 5 This one will say, “I am the LORD's,” another will be called by the name of Jacob, yet another will write on the hand, “The LORD's,” and adopt the name of Israel. 6 Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last; besides Me there is no god. 7 Who is like Me? Let them proclaim it, let them declare and set it forth before me. Who has announced from of old the things to come? Let them tell us what is yet to be. 8 Do not fear, or be afraid; have I not told you from of old and declared it? You are my witnesses! Is there any god besides Me? There is no other rock; I know not one. (NRSV)Marty.
The jews(of the past and present the chosen), that have never known Christ teachings,must go through christ,
They will not be resurrected before they have gone through Christ. This will happen in the thousand years of teachings.
Then they will be resurrected in the second resurrection.Israel will be as paradise for the flesh jews,brought back to live. Not resurrected in a spirit body.
The resurrected saints have inherited heaven and earth.
They are the rulers in paradise.wakeup.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 27 2014,16:30) Hi WU,
Back to your traditional teachings?
Nick.I know it is hard because it is different from what you have been taught; and that is stuck in your mind.
But scriptures are my witnesses.
All is in harmony. Not as the one you have accepted,that has more holes than a sieve.But never mind the holes,can always be patched up.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Mar. 27 2014,16:22) Marty. The jews(of the past and present the chosen), that have never known Christ teachings,must go through christ,
They will not be resurrected before they have gone through Christ. This will happen in the thousand years of teachings.
Then they will be resurrected in the second resurrection.Israel will be as paradise for the flesh jews,brought back to live. Not resurrected in a spirit body.
The resurrected saints have inherited heaven and earth.
They are the rulers in paradise.wakeup.
No, Wakeup, Jesus gave his life for those who were under the law and died in faith prior to his coming and those who were obeying God in faith prior to the Law, and for all of those who are reconciled to God through him since his ministry until he comes for the church. His shed blood is the propitiation for the sins of those who were obeying God in faith in the OT as well as for ours, and they will be resurrected as part of the body of Christ at his coming for the church.Jesus fulfilled the Law. He said that he did not come to change the Law but to fulfill the Law.
Quote Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Salvation is by faith so that it might be by grace, and so, those under the Law could not be saved by the Law since they did not obey without sin, but they were obeying the Law that Jesus taught. He did not change it. He explained what was meant by it, and obeyed it without sin unto death on the cross for those under the Law as well as for us.
Quote Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Wakeup, where are you getting all of these suppositions? I don't see any scriptures which state that the Jews must go through Christs teachings, those who died in the law prior to his coming, and that it will happen during the 1000 years of teachings, I presume you are saying on the earth. And then they will be resurrected in the second resurrection(what does this mean, resurrected from where?)
You cannot teach me any of this. Without scriptures to back it up.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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