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Hi,
Rev11
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Compare
Zech4
Zechariah 4
1And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.2And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
8Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.
Hi,
So is Ronnie one of the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth?
Does fire yet come out of his mouth and his enemies are slayed by it?Hi,
Rev11
3And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.4These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
NIV falsely says these are TWO MEN, opposing the manuscripts.
We should be more openminded.Hi NicK:
KJV says:
Quote 11:10
And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.“These two prophets…” Would they be men since they are prophets?
Hi 94,
Probably as there are no other uses of the word that I can find. But there are other witnesses[eg ps89]Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2008,09:19) Hi 94,
Probably as there are no other uses of the word that I can find. But there are other witnesses[eg ps89]
Hi Nick:There may be other witnesses, but these are two distinct witnesses or prophets that will be at the end of times.
Is this Elijah(the spirit of Elijah) who is to come prior to the Lord's coming? They seem to be operating in the same kind of anointing.
Hi 94,
You will have to biblically tie in the olive trees, the candlesticks,the fire, the sackcloth, the cities etc..Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2008,10:18) Hi 94,
You will have to biblically tie in the olive trees, the candlesticks,the fire, the sackcloth, the cities etc..
Hi Nick:I'm not ready to do that at this point. I believe sackcloth just implies humility.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2008,12:16) Hi 94,
Then show it from scriptural examples please.
Hi Nick:I can give you the following as an explanation as to why I believe that sackcloth implies humility.
Quote Strong's Number: 08242 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
qX from (08264)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Saq TWOT – 2282a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
sak Noun MasculineDefinition
mesh, sackcloth, sack, sacking
sack (for grain) sackcloth
worn in mourning or humiliation same material spread out to lie onQuote Ps 35:13
But as for me, when they were sick, my clothing was sackcloth: I humbled my soul with fasting; and my prayer returned into mine own bosom.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 02 2008,16:11) Hi 94,
So sackcloth is never substituted for humility but goes with humility?
Hi Nick:What is sackcloth? Is it available in our present world? The two witnesses testifying clothed in sackcloth. I don't believe that this necessarily has to be the clothing that they are actually wearing, but the state of humility in which they are serving God. The book of revelation in many places is symbolic.
Hi 94,
If you are to alter scripture then you need at least to show similar alterations in scripture elsewhere.Hi 94,
All the uses of SACKCLOTH [46] in scripture specifically relate to clothing.
Except for those that relate to heavenly bodies.Isaiah 50:3
I clothe the heavens with blackness, and I make sackcloth their covering.
Revelation 6:12
And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2008,12:29) Hi 94,
If you are to alter scripture then you need at least to show similar alterations in scripture elsewhere.
Hi Nick:I haven't altered the scripture. I just said that this could be symbolic. If you want to believe that it is literal, that is up to you. When the two witnesses show up we will see what kind of clothing they are wearing.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 03 2008,13:09) Hi 94,
Could be, but you have no supporting evidence.
We'll see when the two witnesses show up.Hi 94,
What is a candlestick or an olive tree spiritually? How do they relate to the God of the earth?Hi 94,
The key has to be in Zech 4
Zechariah 4
1And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep.2And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
3And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
4So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
6Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts.
7Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.
8Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
9The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
10For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the LORD, which run to and fro through the whole earth.
11Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?
12And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?
13And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
14Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the LORD of the whole earth.
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