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Quote (thethinker @ July 11 2009,10:19) Jodi Lee said: Quote Truth be told there is virtue in using more then a few scriptures to defend your position!! Jodi Lee,
I am loaded with Scripture. But I won't allow you to explain Paul's statement away by your pretexting. Paul said that the first man was of the earth, made of dust. He said that the second man was the Lord from heaven. Therefore, Christ was NOT made of dust. He was NOT of this earth. By your use of the scriptures (pretexting) you are blurring the contradistinction Paul clearly made between the first and the second man. Line upon line and precept upon precept is the rule.Paul then said this:
Quote As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those that are heavenly. And as we have born the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man The first Adam was a mass of animated clay in his entire being. The second Man was not. The second Man was clay only in his physical constitution. In every other way He was heavenly and immortal. We have borne the image of dust as the first man. But one day we will bear the heavenly image of the second Man.
thinker
Hi TT,
So now as well as God having several PARTS Jesus too has SEVERAL PARTS, some of which are God.Your lack of support from your friends is deafening.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2009,10:36) Quote (thethinker @ July 11 2009,10:19) Jodi Lee said: Quote Truth be told there is virtue in using more then a few scriptures to defend your position!! Jodi Lee,
I am loaded with Scripture. But I won't allow you to explain Paul's statement away by your pretexting. Paul said that the first man was of the earth, made of dust. He said that the second man was the Lord from heaven. Therefore, Christ was NOT made of dust. He was NOT of this earth. By your use of the scriptures (pretexting) you are blurring the contradistinction Paul clearly made between the first and the second man. Line upon line and precept upon precept is the rule.Paul then said this:
Quote As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those that are heavenly. And as we have born the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man The first Adam was a mass of animated clay in his entire being. The second Man was not. The second Man was clay only in his physical constitution. In every other way He was heavenly and immortal. We have borne the image of dust as the first man. But one day we will bear the heavenly image of the second Man.
thinker
Hi TT,
So now as well as God having several PARTS Jesus too has SEVERAL PARTS, some of which are God.Your lack of support from your friends is deafening.
Nick,
What are you talking about? All Trinitarians believe that Jesus was both God and man.thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2009,11:50) Hi TT,
Ask them if they believe in a God of several PARTS.
Enough with your misrepresentations Nick. God exists as three persons but one God. Each person is one part of the Godhead. Husband and wife are one flesh and each makes up one part. By the word “part” is meant one of a specified number.thinker
Quote (thethinker @ July 11 2009,13:08) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 11 2009,11:50) Hi TT,
Ask them if they believe in a God of several PARTS.
Enough with your misrepresentations Nick. God exists as three persons but one God. Each person is one part of the Godhead. Husband and wife are one flesh and each makes up one part. By the word “part” is meant one of a specified number.thinker
Could you back that up with scripture please.I know of NO scripture which describes God as three separate people.
1Co 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
One God the Father, how can that be refuted? If all things are of the ONE God the Father, then Jesus is our ONE master because OF the Father. Jesus is our master through the work of the Father, the ONE true God.
You said you are loaded with scripture, well why then have you not produced any? And why can't you give a post that adequately explains your understanding. If you truly want people to understand what you believe is the truth, it would help if you'd use at least a few paragraphs to explain it.
I Corinthians 15 tells us many things, one being that in the end Jesus will deliver the kingdom to his Father.
15:24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
Why is he delivering it to God the Father? And WHY is God in these scriptures ONLY represented as being the Father?
15:28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.
How is Jesus part of God, but yet here he seems to be separate, having to be subjected to God. If Jesus were one part of God then why would he need to be subjected to himself in order to be all in all? Once again the God here is specifically the Father anyway, so is it your understanding that the Son of God is also God the Father? Is Jesus his own Father, is that what you believe TT? Seriously, you have some explaining to do of your belief, it is rather confusing from what little I know of it, and it certainly seems to be blatantly against what direct scripture tells us.
Jodi
Hi TT,
So it is now a godhead with several parts?
How odd as there is no such godhead God in the bible.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 10 2009,14:36) Quote (thethinker @ July 11 2009,10:19) Jodi Lee said: Quote Truth be told there is virtue in using more then a few scriptures to defend your position!! Jodi Lee,
I am loaded with Scripture. But I won't allow you to explain Paul's statement away by your pretexting. Paul said that the first man was of the earth, made of dust. He said that the second man was the Lord from heaven. Therefore, Christ was NOT made of dust. He was NOT of this earth. By your use of the scriptures (pretexting) you are blurring the contradistinction Paul clearly made between the first and the second man. Line upon line and precept upon precept is the rule.Paul then said this:
Quote As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those that are heavenly. And as we have born the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man The first Adam was a mass of animated clay in his entire being. The second Man was not. The second Man was clay only in his physical constitution. In every other way He was heavenly and immortal. We have borne the image of dust as the first man. But one day we will bear the heavenly image of the second Man.
thinker
Hi TT,
So now as well as God having several PARTS Jesus too has SEVERAL PARTS, some of which are God.Your lack of support from your friends is deafening.
Nick,To say that thinker has no support is absurd. Some of us have lives outside of this forum, and I worked a great deal this weekend. So please do not say he has no support, because I cannot be on the forum 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
TC27
Hi TC,
Indeed there is a very popular and wide road to walk.
So you feel God has several parts too?
Is Jesus the son of this god?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,11:38) Hi TC,
Indeed there is a very popular and wide road to walk.
So you feel God has several parts too?
Is Jesus the son of this god?
Nick,I have said this before. There is one God. This God has three persons. There is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that form the whole entire God. My God is capable of this because he is all-powerful.
TC27
Hi TC,
You say that.
Tradition agrees with you.
But scripture makes no such statements.Whom will you serve?
Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 14 2009,07:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,11:38) Hi TC,
Indeed there is a very popular and wide road to walk.
So you feel God has several parts too?
Is Jesus the son of this god?
Nick,I have said this before. There is one God. This God has three persons. There is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that form the whole entire God. My God is capable of this because he is all-powerful.
TC27
I have a question for you TC27,I believe I asked it on another thread as well. If ONE God exists through three persons then is it your understanding that alone they are then not individually gods?
peace be unto you all, TT
God, according to you exists by three persons. God=3
However this scripture does not say that the son was sent by the father and his spirit.
The person talking says he was sent by Lord God and his Spirit
If God=3, spirit=1 and the person speaking=1
What we have here is 3+1+1=5 or is this also equal to 1Your doctrine teaches that God is three persons, but wherever God is mentioned in scripture along with christ the word automatically means father
The trinity doctrine is so false, it allows you to say anything at anytime, without condemnation. Eg the Catholics are today saying Mary mother of God…. Simply because Mary is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus according to the trinity is God =Mary, mother of God.Quote (thethinker @ July 06 2009,01:30) To All,
Let our non-trinitarian friends explain the following from Isaiah 48:12-16:12: “Listen to Me O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.
13: Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand up together.
14: All of you, assemble yourselves and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; He shall do His great pleasure in Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15: I, even I have spoken; yes, I have called him, I have brought him and his way shall prosper.
16: Come near to Me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the LORD GOD and His Spirit have sent Me.”Commenting on the phrase “The Lord God and His Spirit has sent Me” Alan Cairns says this,
Quote The context after verse 12 shows that the speaker is the Messiah. He is clearly a divine person because in verse 12 he says, “I am he; I am the first, I am also the last….” In verse 16 He says, “From the time it was, there am I and the Lord God and His Spirit has sent Me.” What stronger evidence could be given on three divine persons, distinct from one another as to their personal properties, in unity of the divine essence? (Dictionary of Theological terms, Alan Cairns, Ambassador Emerald International, p. 496) Anti-trinitarians deny that Christ is the First and the Last. Yet the One who calls Himself the First and the Last in verse 12 says that He created the heavens and the earth (vs. 13) and that He was sent by the Lord God and His Spirit (vs. 16).
Therefore, Messiah is the First and the Last.
thinker
thinker You really make me laugh, you think that Isaiah proves the trinity?
Let me quote you: Isaiah 48:16 …..And now the LORD God AND HIS SPIRIT have send Me.HIS SPIRIT.. the trinity doctrine is 3in1 right. what this says that it is God,s Spirit, not a person. If you read more of the O.T. you will find that the God is the only God, thee Almighty God. Jesus is the Mighty God and both have other names.
We who do not believe in the trinity have given you so many Scriptures, but you will keep on doing the same thing and denying that our Heavenly Father is above all. Ephesian 4:6
And other Scriptures. You should know them by now I have given them plenty of times.
IreneQuote (Cindy @ July 15 2009,14:08) Quote (thethinker @ July 06 2009,01:30) To All,
Let our non-trinitarian friends explain the following from Isaiah 48:12-16:12: “Listen to Me O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last.
13: Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand up together.
14: All of you, assemble yourselves and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD loves him; He shall do His great pleasure in Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans.
15: I, even I have spoken; yes, I have called him, I have brought him and his way shall prosper.
16: Come near to Me, hear this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the LORD GOD and His Spirit have sent Me.”Commenting on the phrase “The Lord God and His Spirit has sent Me” Alan Cairns says this,
Quote The context after verse 12 shows that the speaker is the Messiah. He is clearly a divine person because in verse 12 he says, “I am he; I am the first, I am also the last….” In verse 16 He says, “From the time it was, there am I and the Lord God and His Spirit has sent Me.” What stronger evidence could be given on three divine persons, distinct from one another as to their personal properties, in unity of the divine essence? (Dictionary of Theological terms, Alan Cairns, Ambassador Emerald International, p. 496) Anti-trinitarians deny that Christ is the First and the Last. Yet the One who calls Himself the First and the Last in verse 12 says that He created the heavens and the earth (vs. 13) and that He was sent by the Lord God and His Spirit (vs. 16).
Therefore, Messiah is the First and the Last.
thinker
thinker You really make me laugh, you think that Isaiah proves the trinity?
Let me quote you: Isaiah 48:16 …..And now the LORD God AND HIS SPIRIT have send Me.HIS SPIRIT.. the trinity doctrine is 3in1 right. what this says that it is God,s Spirit, not a person. If you read more of the O.T. you will find that the God is the only God, thee Almighty God. Jesus is the Mighty God and both have other names.
We who do not believe in the trinity have given you so many Scriptures, but you will keep on doing the same thing and denying that our Heavenly Father is above all. Ephesian 4:6
And other Scriptures. You should know them by now I have given them plenty of times.
Irene
Irene,
You did not read the whole text did you? The One who was sent by the Lord and His Spirit is the Creator (vs. 13). Only God is Creator. Right?thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 16 2009,15:23) Hi TT,
We do not stitch scriptures onto logic and hope to still hold truth.
One or the other.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 17 2009,07:57) Hi TT,
When will you rely soley on what is written?
The traditions of men are not valid
Including your Arain traditions.thinker
Quote (Jodi Lee @ July 13 2009,12:04) Quote (TrinitarianCalvinist27 @ July 14 2009,07:44) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 13 2009,11:38) Hi TC,
Indeed there is a very popular and wide road to walk.
So you feel God has several parts too?
Is Jesus the son of this god?
Nick,I have said this before. There is one God. This God has three persons. There is The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit that form the whole entire God. My God is capable of this because he is all-powerful.
TC27
I have a question for you TC27,I believe I asked it on another thread as well. If ONE God exists through three persons then is it your understanding that alone they are then not individually gods?
Jodi,I do apologize for taking so long to respond to your question. I had company over for a while and did not want to be rude and post while they were here.
God as a whole is one God. There are three persons that make up God. Each person is fully God in every way. That means that all of the Father is God, all of the Son is God, and all of the Holy Spirit is God. However, Not all of God is the Father, not all of God is the Son, and not all of God is the Holy Spirit. God is the general term to referr to the whole of God, including his three persons. But Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are specific terms, which means that all of each of them is God.
Think of the word “car” and the word “vehicle.” A vehicle consists of many types. For example a motorcycle, a car, a truck, a plane, a train etc. All of a car is a vehicle. Everything about it makes it a vehicle. However, you cannot say that all of a vehicle is a car. This is because a vehicle can mean more than just a car because it is a more general term. Therefore, all of God is not the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Spirit. However, all of God is the culmination if the three. However, All of the Father is God, all of the Son is God, and all of the Holy Spirit is God because they are all part of the general term GOD.
TC27
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