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The rest of your post shows you want to unduly attack the “experts” as being all “biased” simply because they do not agree with your views.
Sorry but you either misunderstood you you understood and told a lie. I never said and do not believe that all experts are wrong or make errors because of their bias.
Show me where I said that. If you cannot find it, then an apology would be a good thing.
There are in fact quite a number of experts/scholars that do not believe in the Trinity.
But my point is that just as Science is full of experts who are atheists, so it is no surprise that religious experts also have beliefs that are wrong too. There are many Jewish scholars for example that do not hold Jesus as the messiah based on how they read the Old Testament prophecies about messiah.
What I say is true. One of the problems with this world is that they trust in experts but they let them down all the time.
It takes a lot more to really dig into the depths of Scripture than just the mere conviction you are right
I can prove your wrong here. I am very willing to really dig deep into scripture with you in a debate because that is what it takes to dig deep. Otherwise you will skirt around the issues with this and that comment and not dig deep into each point.
What do you say. A debate where we really delve deep into scripture. Just say the word and I will set it up.
You can go on an anti-intellectual rant all you want about the “wisdom of the world.”
What if scripture did that? Would you be against scriptures. What if Jesus said it. Would you be against him? I guess you must be because I said it and you are against me.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
And the world has its hands in science, religion, theology, philosophy, etc.
At that time Jesus prayed this prayer: “O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding these things from those who think themselves wise and clever, and for revealing them to the childlike.
Jesus plainly taught that the things of God were not revealed to the learned but to the innocent and humble. Be like this child he said and you will be the greatest in the kingdom of Heaven. Why do you think I question a man when he comes here and rattles off or boasts of his educational credentials? I do not have a problem with education of course after all I want my kids to have the best one they can get. But those who think that this gives them truth are mistaken. No, it gives them at best knowledge. But not all knowledge is true or profitable, but I agree that knowledge is a good thing.
I tell you what. I admire Sir Isaac Newton. He was an intellectual, but he spent more time studying and writing about scripture than science. Hawking on the other-hand is all science and no (or little) God. I admire the first man but not the second. Newton to me is a great example of being an intellectual with the right attitude. Sure he was not perfect and I am sure people could quote things that were not good as you could with anyone. But I admire the man’s intellect, passion for truth, determination, and priorities. So don’t get me wrong. I am certainly not anti-intellectual. The opposite in fact. I am anti-worldly wisdom and doctrine from so-called experts who have deceived billions of people.
Well, we are already debating. As for some sort of big debate, no, I’m not interested. You’d have to demonstrate to me you had a solid biblical and theological education, which you have yet to do.
Well, we are already debating. As for some sort of big debate, no, I’m not interested.
Then you have to retract your statement about me not digging deep into scripture because that is the very thing I want to do and you turned me down.
It takes a lot more to really dig into the depths of Scripture than just the mere conviction you are right
At best this current debating format will jump all over the place and not concentrate and dig deep on single points. It hasn’t happened yet at least. I am not opposed to that either, but you cannot state with conviction that I am not interested in digging deep. You are wrong. Personally I feel that if you make a statement like that, then turn down something that will prove otherwise, then that does look like a lack a sincerity. At least retract your statement or allow me to prove that your statement is wrong.
A common ploy used by cult leaders is to try and vilify all critics and all aspects of the Christian religion they disagree with by discounting them as all representing “wisdom of the world.” This represents a serious misuse and abuse of Scripture. In point of fact, what Scripture criticizes as “wisdom of the world” is precisely anti-Trinitarian thinking, the notion that Christ is just another prophet or inspired teacher, certainly not God. So if there is anyone here going on the “wisdom of teh World, it is you.
My point stands about pride and arrogance dominating the self-appointed false prophets who seek to vilify the Christian religion.
hoghead. You are the one afraid to have a true debate on scripture. Not me. Cults are afraid of doing this because their ideas a extra-biblical like the Trinity is. They cannot rely on scripture to back up their view.
I am not a cult leader. Neither do I claim I am so deeply moved by teh Spirit that I know Scripture better than all those who embrace the Christian religion. That’s your department.
Read again. If the Father is eternal, then so is the Son.
You said that I said that the Father was not eternal. You were wrong.
And your statement is silly.
I am a father and have a son.
Who would say “If his father is 50 years old then so is the son”.
God has aptly demonstrated what Father means and what son means. No one really believes they are the same person or being or age.
God is eternal, that is why he is God and why he is called the Father. He is the Father of all and even (god forbid) the Father of the Son. lol.
When you can demonstrate to me that you are fluent in biblical languages and a real student of theology, then I will be happy to consider you one well with it to get into the ring with for some real workout. So far, about the only challenge I receive from you is to respond to your anti-intellectual rantings and contempt for the Christian religion.
I can and will state with conviction that you are not interested in digging very deep. That is well shown by your lack of advanced education in biblical studies and theology.
Okay I will prove you wrong.
Let’s dig deep right here and I will give you the advantage too.
Quote me your best scripture that teaches the Trinity and I will prove to you why it doesn’t teach the Trinity.
Here is the chance to delve into this scripture and give it the depth of investigation it deserves.
I await your scripture.
Well, had you bothered to study deeply Scripture and the Trinity, you would realize there is a biblical foundation to it. But, of course, you are so much smarter, wiser, and afar more motivated by the Spirit than anyone, any major figure or otherwise, who holds to the Christian religion that you know you are absolutely right and they, poor souls, are automatically all wrong.
Your argument was that the Son is not eternal. I was simply pointing out to you that your view here would invalidate the Father as well from being eternal. It doesn’t take rocket science to see that. Now, if you hold, as you claim you do, that the Father is eternal, then so, too, must be the Son. That also does not take rocket science to understand.
Rocket science? If an eternal God begats a son, then that is not rocket science either. I am simply stating that which scripture already states itself. God who is eternal has begotten a son. He is the only begotten of the Father. What you need is faulty rocket science if you want to baffle your way around that.
What scripture are you going to use as the best example of the Trinity?
I’ve already presented a number of biblical passages both to you and some other members here. I am not bout to repeat myself. As to proving something, about the only thing you have proved so far is that you want to vilify the Christian religion.
Looks like you might be a bit scared. Tell you what. Just quote the scripture itself that is all you need to do. Then I can prove to you that your statement about a lack of depth is wrong and that will give you a chance to say sorry. That’s a win win.
T8….HOGHEAD has nothing, to actually support his, “assumed” right position on the trinity, he just blabs out some scriptures that he can “force” the text by adding to them to say what he wants them to say, but when confronted with the actual scripture that shows the exact opposite he just ignores them as if they really weren’t in his bible text. HE does this while all the time presenting himself as a well educated self proclamed bible expert, when in fact he hasen’t even started ubderstand scriptures, that is obvious by him not responding to scriptures presented to him here, but instead starts changing subject matter by saying things like “your words were inflammatory” as if his is not, or he will change subject matter by portraying himself as far more “educated” then we are, he will say anything to dodge truth. He will not debate with you for fear of being shown how wrong he really is, egotistical “PRIDE” will not allow some people to be put to the test. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
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