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Hi hoghead,
Where did Jesus and the apostles teach about any trinity?
Do we have to trust your personal implications?
Ask yourself teh same question, Nick. Do we have to trust your personal implications? I sure don’t. As I just pointed out, Jesus and teh Apostles teach that Christ is the Savior, and only God can save. Now, according to you, the Trinity is a big lie, so then Christ isn’t God, and then Christ can’t be the Savior, and then the questions remains as to who really is. Either that, or we are simply saved by another guy, and that makes absolutely no sense at all.
Hi hoghead,
All intellectual theory.
You clearly do not know the Father and the Son.
2 Cor 13 .1 is a useful guide to establishing truth and better than human theories.
Nick, the first rule of thumb in any serious theological discussions do not cast aspersion on the character of others. That’s what you are doing here with me. This appears to be a bad habit of yours. If you cannot respond in an appropriate, respectful manner, I am just going to start ignoring your posts.
Hi hoghead,
I have no interest in the claimed righteousness of others.
But I am saddened by the apparent disrespect for the word of God.
Hi Gene,
I have “evidence”, but I’m not going to produce it unless Hoghead1 agrees to read through my posts on this thread…
Well Hoghead1, do we have a deal?
Hello, Ed,
I’m not up to making any deals until I understand exactly what is going on. If you want me to red and respond to your posts, such as this one, fine. However, I’m no going to go and read through a host of previous comments you have posted. I just don’t have the time for that. If you maybe feel I haven’t been responding to certain of your posts, that is because they haven’t cropped up in mailbox. This one did, so I am responding. If you have some sort of crucial “evidence” or case you want to make here, one way or the other on the Trinity, you should present it, regardless of me. After all, others here are also interested in the Trinity.
Hi Hoghead1,
OK, have it your way – you can go it alone then
“without faith it is impossible to please him” (Heb 11:6)
Hi Hoghead1,
So you say you would rather read the posts of those who clearly disagree with you,
than read the posts of someone who actually in part may agree with you, strange???Sorry, Nick, but, as I have pointed out to you a number of times, such inflammatory comments have absolutely no place in a serious theological discussion.
Hello, Ed,
No, that isn’t exactly what I intended to say. But since you brought it up…Yes, at times, it is far more profitable to deal with an astute critic than just those who agree with you. There is more of a challenge. The Bible says that we should be as iron upon iron, sharpening one another. Conflicts are great opportunities for personal growth. Although the parties may never come to an agreement, each is challenged and comes away more knowledgeable. The problem I have here is that I am not always being challenged. Instead, what I am seeing and getting is a lot of inflammatory rhetoric. No challenge there. Just some hothead sounding off, just some more hate mail. Boring, very boring.
Well, Ed, seems like I have to go it alone, then. If you don’t care enough about your material to clue me in , then I am really not going to worry about missing something truly important. If you don’t consider it important enough to bring up here, I’m sure not going to worry about it, either.
Well, Ed, seems like I have to go it alone, then. If you don’t care enough about your material to clue me in , then I am really not going to worry about missing something truly important. If you don’t consider it important enough to bring up here, I’m sure not going to worry about it, either.
Hi Hoghead1,
I have written a free e-book on the proof of God’s existence. That may
or may not clue you in on whether my research is thorough enough for you.
Both sides do hold to some truth as that thread testifies to. Anyways your choice.OK, here’s a link to the material that proves God’s existence…
http://holycitybiblecode.forumotion.co.nz/t227-god-s-existence-has-now-finally-been-proven_____________
God bless
Ed JHi hoghead1:
I think the Trinity may “beat” you , Marty, simply because you fail to bear in mind that it is claiming there are three, not one, but three entities involved here: The Father, the Son, and the Spirit. Each of these is taken to be God, or, more specifically, a key dimension of one God. That is based on the fact that Scripture does in fact deify each of these beings. I pointed out several important biblical passages here in a recent post to Gene today. So remember, there are three key players involved here, not just one. Christ reveals God simply because Christ is God in the flesh.
What do you mean “The Father, the Son, and the Spirit is each to be taken as God or more specifically “a key dimension of one God”. How can you go on adding to God’s Word, when the Apostle Paul identified the “One God” as the Father. Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, and he is “the express image of God’s person” but no, he is God. He is “the last Adam”, and we as born again believers are being conformed to his image. It is true that the body of Christ is God’s body, his own flesh and blood, but the scriptures state “that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself”(2 Co 5:19). God is not a man, but man was made in God’s image. There is the first Adam who was made a living soul, and the last Adam who was made a life giving spirit. The Holy Spirit is God’s spirit, and not a separate and distinct person from the Father. Your spirit is not a separate person from you, but your spirit defines who you are according to the life that you live.
1 Co 2 states:
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
So, in John 14 Jesus stated that it was the Father dwelling within him doing the works, it was God the Father dwelling within him by His Spirit. It was also the Holy Spirit that overshadowed the virgin Mary when Jesus was begotten in her womb. No, the Holy Spirit is not a “Third person” of a Tri-une God.
John 14:
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Luke 1:
34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
In the following scripture Jesus called the disciples his brethren, and he said that he was ascending to His Father and God, and to their Father and God.
John 20:
15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi, Ed,
I just don’t have the time to do any further reading here. I have a number of publications myself, including my dissertation. However, I do not see fit to refer others to them, as I well know we all have very limited time. What I try and do with my own material is work it in as best I can in my posts.
Hi Hoghead1,
I thought you wanted to expand your knowledge of God,
but I guess I was wrong. Sorry you don’t have the time.____________
God bless
Ed JI wouldn’t call Ehrman an anti-trinitarian since he’s not claiming to be a theologian.But he does believe in a real Jesus who was just human who later evolved into a god or God albeit by the scriptural writers themselves.
It’s St Johns gospel that specifically identifies three divine persons although also presenting Jesus as trusting the one who he claims to be one with. Without John’s gospel and Matt 28:19 there would probably be no Trinity.It is an inferred doctrine as they claim but that is no different than some other popular Christian teachings.
Hi again, Andrew,
There’s more to it than just those references. There is also Philp. 2:6, 1 Cor. 15:45, etc. In the NT, Christ is presented as Lord and Savior, and only the God who created you can save you. Also,the various powers attributed to the Son and Spirit are the ones only God has. So the Trinity has firm rooting in teh Bible. The problem is that it is not worked out in any metaphysical detail. The Bible is not a work in systematic theology, tells us very little about how God is built, gives but snapshots which often conflict. It’s up to us to piece these shots together into a unified whole, which was the goal of the Trinitarian formulations.
Hi again, Andrew,
Yes, you are correct about Ehrman. However, I say he is definitely anti-Trinitarian for the simple reason that Trinitarians affirm the Deity of Christ, and n the baisi of Scrioture, which, obviously, he does not.
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