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You mingle the truth with untruths. It is true that God has chosen to reconcile us unto Himself by Jesus Christ. Without God there would be no Jesus or anything else for that matter, and the scripture states that there is “One God”. There is no scripture or scriptures that say that God is Tri-une in nature. I have discussed all of this with the pastors of the church where I currently worship, and they agree that there is no scripture which specifically supports the “Trinity doctrine”, that it is based on a concept revealed in the scriptures.
The scriptures state that all scripture is given by the inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for correction, and instruction in righteousness, understand God says scripture, not concepts or private interpretations of the scriptures.
The scripture states that God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. God is a Spirit. He also dwells within us as believers by His Holy Spirit. God’s Spirit is not “a third person”.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi 94,
God does not teach through inference and supposition.
Carnal men attempting to reconcile scripture ADD concepts to help them.
Nick:
True. While they claim that they are the only ones to whom the Holy Spirit has reveled the truth, there are those Jews and Muslims that will not even stop to listen the gospel for fear of accepting their doctrine and thereby violating the 1st Commandment. “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”
DavidL,
It simply CANNOT be comprehended alone by the natural mind – which is the very reason WHY it is debated and rejected on this web site..but comes to us only by way of REVELATION from the Spirit through the Word of God…(you must be born again).
These men—Basil, bishop of Caesarea, his brother Gregory, bishop of Nyssa, and Gregory of Nazianzus—were all “trained in Greek philosophy” (Armstrong, p. 113), which no doubt affected their outlook and beliefs (see “Greek Philosophy’s Influence on the Trinity Doctrine,” beginning on page 14).
In their view, as Karen Armstrong explains, “the Trinity only made sense as a mystical or spiritual experience . . . It was not a logical or intellectual formulation but an imaginative paradigm that confounded reason. Gregory of Nazianzus made this clear when he explained that contemplation of the Three in One induced a profound and overwhelming emotion that confounded thought and intellectual clarity.
In short you do not believe Jesus Christ who declared Scripture cannot be broken but instead believe three men that were all trained in Greek philosophy and taught an “imaginary paradigm” that is so broken that they insisted it could not to be challenged.
Note: I do not agree with the teachings of the United Church of God as they apply teachings that God gave to the Hebrew people to all people. This excerpt is about history and not doctrinal. I have not confirmed it yet but it is well written.
Nick,
Hi 94,
God does not teach through inference and supposition.
Carnal men attempting to reconcile scripture ADD concepts to help them.
Actually God does teach by implication which is why Jesus pointed out the implications of the verse that declared God is the God of Abraham and Isaac.
Inference and supposition are not actual implications but rather hints and possibilities.
Trinitarians and choose what makes up the “concept” they want and it to the words of Scripture as do heretics in general.
Hi KW,
As a logician you confuse inference with spiritual words.
God is the God of Abraham because God is the God of the Living and Abraham is still alive in the Spirit of God.
Nick,
Hi KW,
As a logician you confuse inference with spiritual words.
God is the God of Abraham because God is the God of the Living and Abraham is still alive in the Spirit of God.
Spiritual words can be inferences.
God uses them for the same reason Jesus uses parables and other mystic words. Jesus saw the implication of the words he quoted while the Sadducees did not. They were revealed to him and hidden from the Sadducees. The Pharisees saw the hidden implications but they missed other things.
Paul was well aware of what he was doing when he reasoned with the Jews out of Scripture on Saturdays.
Some claim that Jesus transformed from being flesh and bone to being spirit when he ascended to heaven and yet it is not written. That is the implications the see because they insist the words “flesh and blood cannot enter the reign of God” are literal. I regard those words as an idiom and so not literal and so do not see those implications. I find those false implications opposed to the teaching that the body that is planted is not the one that rises and to the fact that Scripture uses Jesus resurrection as an example of the Resurrection to come. The Spirit decides what is true.
Hi KW,
Reason is your faith foundation.
You feel you have the choice on how to use it.
Interpretation is private to you and you feel you are right.
So it is all under your control and not that of the Spirit?
Nick,
You are essentially claiming that because Paul reason from Scripture that it is his private interpretation.
Private interpretation is interpretation that comes from the flesh and not from the Spirit.
Scripture does not condemn reason or anything else that is based on the Spirit and that should be enough for you not to condemn it.
Scripture does condemn reason or anything else that is based on the desires of the flesh.
It is best for you learn that and giver up all what you were taught by human beings and listen to God.
Hi KW,
Since you accept the teaching of Pauls’ as inspired then you know he had the Spirit.
But that does not mean that he glorified reason as essential for understanding spiritual things.
The mind of Christ and the Spirit is that which is essential and not the pretensions of greek wisdom.
Nick,
He is inspired which is why I pointed out that reason or anything else that is based on the Spirit is not condemned by Scripture but nevertheless you are still condemning it because you have been taught by human beings to condemn it.
God can speak the whole gospel to whomever he chooses without using humans as tools to do so and yet he chooses to use humans as his instruments.
It is clear that when Paul went into the synagogues a reasoned from Scriptures that God choose to use reasoning to reach those in attendance.
He also chose to use it on Pentecost as Peter preached to the Jews and converts to Judaism and though many believed others did not even though Peter’s reasoning was both sound and valid.
Jesus taught the Sadducees that the resurrection was implied in the OT and yet did any renounce their belief and become his disciples.
The bible does not condemn reason but it is the Trinitarians and others that do not want their teachings tested that condemn reason. Why do you still hold on to that teaching?
At the heart of the Trinity is the Deity of Jesus Christ – this is the REAL issue, and the primary target of all heresies and cult teachings – who argue that Christ was nothing more than a man, or at best some lesser god equal to the idea of men being gods. But the Deity of Christ is a foundational truth which the early Church fought vehemently to defend – against the deceitful heresies of it’s day… and which in our time is coming increasingly under attack again… as the church drifts further into apostasy, and we approach the darkest time in the history of mankind (Antichrist reign – Jacob’s trouble)..!!
It seems the ground work for deception has already been accomplished by the reliance of corrupted manuscripts in modern translations, that brings confusion and raises doubt in the overall authority of Scripture itself..
So now more than ever it is time to discern the voice of the Spirit over the teachings of men – the Spirit alone opens our understanding to the truth… whereas ‘man’ keeps us focused on analyzing doctrine.
Hi davidl,
Yes the early apostate church was deceived and following falsehoods instead of obeying the Master.
Building up human fabrications and defending them by killing those who opposed them.
Kerwin
The bible does not condemn reason but it is the Trinitarians and others that do not want their teachings tested that condemn reason.
Reason is good – it’s just not the way to interpret Scripture..
In fact – reason is the reason we have so much confusion..
it usurps the voice of God.
Hi davidl,
Scripture says in Acts 2.22
” Jesus, the nazarene, a man approved by God..”
Can you please interpret this for us?
DavidL,
By corrupted manuscripts you mean those that disagree with your interpretation.
The AV of the KJV disagrees with your teaching as Jesus is called a human being in it and he calls the Father of us all God.
I know of no manuscripts that agree though there is certainly corruptions such as one verse that claims God shed blood despite the fact he does not have a body.
DavidL: “It seems the ground work for deception has already been accomplished by the reliance of corrupted manuscripts in modern translations, that brings confusion and raises doubt in the overall authority of Scripture itself..”
…………………………………..
There is no doubt that the first Christians were Jews who attended and taught in Jewish Synagogues. To teach that they believed that Jesus is God is absolutely incompatible with this fact. From the time of the Bar Kochba revolution (about 135 A.D.), Christianity began its rejection of its roots and eschewed everything Jewish (including the Jewish God). That is when the groundwork began being laid for a new understanding of the Most High God for ‘Christians.’
I know of corrupted manuscripts and incorrect translations which favor the trinity concept, but what are the “corrupted” passages in modern translations which support a non-trinitarian concept?
DavidL,
Reason is good – it’s just not the way to interpret Scripture..
In fact – reason is the reason we have so much confusion..
it usurps the voice of God.
Scripture literally tells us Paul reasoned from Scripture and if you know the form of a logical argument you can see cases where Jesus and his Apostles use logical reasoning throughout Scripture.
Matthew 22:31-33Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. 33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.
Premise 1: quote a scripture is inspired
Premise 2: quote a commonly held belief that is in inspired
The conclusion is there is a resurrection of the dead is also inspired even though reached by logical reasoning.There is no evidence the Sadducees believed it though he revealed by using reason that the teaching that there is a resurrection of the dead is hidden in the OT.
Reason and inspiration work together in the hands of those that do the works of God but reason without the truth will lead you astray.
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