The Trinity Doctrine

[NickHassan]

No DVD,
I don't play clever games. Why are you so shy to contribute positive things? Is it more fun to try and shoot down others or do you not have a basis of truth of your own?

[Anonymous]

This is not a game and I do have a basis, and im coming to that. There is another option I neglected to add:

When you were born again and recieved the Spirit of God, exactly whose spirit was it that you recieved?

a) The Father's
b) Jesus'
c) Both
d) Neither
e) The ONE spirit of the Father (who is Spirit), Son (who became a 'life giving' Spirit) and Holy Ghost (who is a Holy Spirit)

Choose an option. Please.

[NickHassan]

Hi DVD,
Just as soon as you answer a few of the overdue questions asked of you.

[Anonymous]

I did answer the questions YOU asked me (Did God raise himself?). This is my answer:

Yes. God raised Jesus from the dead.

Here are the verses I cited that support my premise:
Gal 1:1, 1 Thess 1:10, Joh 2:19-21, Joh 10:18, Matt 26:61, 27:40, Romans 8:11, 1 Pet 3:18.

It isnt me who is avoiding answering questions Nick.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ June 01 2005,09:21)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2005,08:43) Hi DVD, If God died who raised Him from the dead? God? Yes. Scriptures attributing the resurrection to the: Father; Gal 1:1, 1 Thess 1:10 Jesus; Joh 2:19-21, Joh 10:18, Matt 26:61, 27:40 Holy Spirit: Romans 8:11, 1 Pet 3:18

So DVD,
Did the Father raise Jesus from the dead, or a trinity which some believe Jesus is a part of?

ps For my reply to your question on the Holy Spirit please refer to the appropriate forum on the Spirit.

[Anonymous]

I repeat God raised Jesus from the Dead. If you deny that Jesus is God then you have contradiction and confusion. This is true of all the major acts of God, from creation through to the sending of the Holy Spirit (which God was prophesied to send in Joel, see Acts 2 vss 16,17). It appears that you are frightened of some scripture Nick. You show me this in your evasion of my questions. This should be a pointer that you need to reevaluate your position on Christ. I will ask one more time:

Can you please answer my four 'yes or no' questions regarding Joh 2:19-21

Can you please choose an option from my post regarding the Spirit that indwells God's children.

Since you are a self-appointed teacher you should be up to the task.

[NickHassan]

Sorry DVD,
I do not understand.
When you say “God” raised Jesus whom do you mean?

Is that the God of the Old Testament?
Do you mean the Father?
Or do you mean Jesus is that God?
Or is Jesus part of that God?

Is the Son of God also the Father of the Son of God?
or part of the Father of the Son of God?
Or is there really no Father or Son but only trinity?

This gets so confusing so I really would like to know what exactly you mean.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ June 03 2005,01:03)

Since you are a self-appointed teacher you should be up to the task.

Actually DVD if I am self appointed you are wasting your time asking me anything. You may feel that if we do not share the same Spirit.
Perhaps you should expound your undoubtedly superior knowledge more if you are able to judge me deficient? I am always willing to learn from those who have useful things to share.

[Anonymous]

If scripture tells us that “God” raised Jesus then we must accept that as true. If, however, scripture tells us that the Father raised Jesus (Gal 1:1, Thess 1:10) and Jesus raised Himself (Joh 2:19, Joh 10:18, Matt 26:61, 27:40)and The Spirit raised Him (Romans 8:11, 1 Pet 3:18) then logic tells us that although God is One being, plurality in the nature of His manifestation must be considered. Especially when there is a substantial body of biblical evidence attesting to the deity of Christ and the personhood of the Spirit. Is this clear enough for you???

Now PLEASE answer my questions. I think you need to prove to me and others that You, Nick, are not a false teacher by the very own standards that you have set here.

[NickHassan]

Hold on DVD,
Whenever we read “God ” in scripture then should we read trinity?
When you say Jesus has “deity” do you mean he is another equal god to be worshipped or part of trinity? Did he never separate from the Father so they are still parts of the same being-so he isn't really a son then and God is not really his father? Sorry should I have said trinity there? But if Jesus is part of a triune God how come he prays to God-is that not praying to himself. I am getting so confused. Please help me unravel this.
Lets try putting trinity in some of them and see how they work
“For the trinity so loved the world that the trinity sent part of the trinity…” It doesn't seem to work DVD.
You see we need some sort of level playing field here or we are never going to understand one another, let alone agree. I think what I believe is simpler but to each their own I guess.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
2Cor 1.21
“Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge”

So God is the Father, who calls us into His Son and then sends His Spirit into our hearts.Simple really.

[Anonymous]

Nick, WhatIsTrue
I agree that 'God' (Theos) is often used to designate the Father and 'Lord' (Kurios) is often used to designate Jesus. However, the NT usage of the title Lord does NOT signify inferiority, nor invalidate Jesus' deity at all. These titles are also applied interchangably, by New Testament writers, between the Father and Son:

Mark 12:29-30 (cf. Deut 6:4)
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord (Kurios): 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

Titus 2:13-14
13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God (Theos) and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.

Jude 5
I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord (Kurios), having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

And many titles for God are common to both the Father and Jesus:

The first and the last – Father (Isa 44:6), Son (Rev 22:23)
King – Father (Ex 15), Son (Zech 9:9)
Lord of Hosts – Father (Isa 6:5), Son (Zech 14:16)
Judge – Father (Isa 33:22), Son (2 Co 5:10)
Redeemer – Father (Jer 50:34), Son (Ti 2:14)
Good shephard – Father (Ps 23:1), Son (Joh 10:11)
Savior – Father (Isa 43:11), Son (1 Joh 4:14)
Rock – Father (Isa 44:8), Son (1 Cr 10:4)

So I personally dont get to hung up on the titles used to designate the Father and Son. I hope this goes some way to explaining my position.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2005,04:31)

Hi, 2Cor 1.21 “Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge” So God is the Father, who calls us into His Son and then sends His Spirit into our hearts.Simple really.

Who's spirit Nick? Please be specific.

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Jn 6.46
“Not that anyone has seen the Father except the One who is from God;he has seen the Father”

God is the Father.
As a general rule anytime the word “God” appears in scripture it refers to the Father. It appears 1000s of times in scripture. Yes there are a half dozen or so times that Jesus is also called “God”.

But the Father is God in all the other occasions the word is used. It does not change the fact that Jesus Christ, the Son of God came in the flesh.That should confuse nobody who knows scripture well and knows the few have to be understood in terms of the many and not vice versa.

These traps of misunderstanding lead men off the path of truth into swamps and mists of confusion such as oneness and trinity. Keep it simple and you will not be deceived.

[Anonymous]

OK, I understand Nick. What we must do is ignore the scriptures that contradict our doctrines. I can see no distinction between what you suggest and what WhatIsTrue has done. Our theology must be derived from ALL of scripture not selective parts. I have taken some time and answered you questions, now I will ask one more time for you to reciprocate and answer mine. Im waiting.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ June 03 2005,05:12)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2005,04:31) Hi, 2Cor 1.21 “Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge” So God is the Father, who calls us into His Son and then sends His Spirit into our hearts.Simple really. Who's spirit Nick? Please be specific.

Hi DVD,
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God and is the Spirit of Christ and is the Spirit of truth and is the Spirit of life and is The Spirit and is the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus etc.

Do you not know this?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Guest @ June 03 2005,05:10)

Nick, WhatIsTrue I agree that 'God' (Theos) is often used to designate the Father and 'Lord' (Kurios) is often used to designate Jesus. However, the NT usage of the title Lord does NOT signify inferiority, nor invalidate Jesus' deity at all. These titles are also applied interchangably, by New Testament writers, between the Father and Son: Mark 12:29-30 (cf. Deut 6:4) 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord (Kurios): 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. Titus 2:13-14 13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God (Theos) and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good. Jude 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord (Kurios), having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And many titles for God are common to both the Father and Jesus: The first and the last – Father (Isa 44:6), Son (Rev 22:23) King – Father (Ex 15), Son (Zech 9:9) Lord of Hosts – Father (Isa 6:5), Son (Zech 14:16) Judge – Father (Isa 33:22), Son (2 Co 5:10) Redeemer – Father (Jer 50:34), Son (Ti 2:14) Good shephard – Father (Ps 23:1), Son (Joh 10:11) Savior – Father (Isa 43:11), Son (1 Joh 4:14) Rock – Father (Isa 44:8), Son (1 Cr 10:4) So I personally dont get to hung up on the titles used to designate the Father and Son. I hope this goes some way to explaining my position.

So ,DVD, is the Father the Son or are they separate?

[Anonymous]

Scripture clearly designates that ONE Spirit indwells us:

Ezekiel 11:19
And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 2:18
For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

Ephesians 4:4
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

Is this ONE Spirit of God:
a) The Father's Spirit
b) Christ's Spirit

May I have a specific answer please? Choose 'a' or 'b'

[NickHassan]

Hi DVD,
The Spirit of God is the Spirit of the Son is the Holy Spirit. They are not alternatives but the same Spirit who comes from one being and fills another and flows to us ..so not a person.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 03 2005,05:40)

So I personally dont get to hung up on the titles used to designate the Father and Son. I hope this goes some way to explaining my position.[/quote] So ,DVD, is the Father the Son or are they separate?

Nick,
One being, two persons.
Only one of us is answering questions here……im waiting.

[Author]

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