The Trinity Doctrine

[Lightenup]

Georg,

you said:

Quote

The heart has nothing to do with anything, except to pump blood. It may pump faster at times when we are exited, and slower when we're scared; but our decisions are made with our mind/spirit depending what information is in our brain.

Do a search on 'heart' and see that the word 'heart' does not usually mean the organ that pumps our blood. Here is one verse to get you started:

Acts 8:20But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21“You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22“Therefore repent of this wickedness of yours, and pray the Lord that, if possible, the intention of your heart may be forgiven you.

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Georg,
you said:

Quote

Yes, a dead body does look empty, empty of life, but he/she is not with the Lord; not consciously that is. I give you some scriptures you need to look at. Ps. 104:29 “Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled, thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.” Eccl. 3:19 “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.” v. 20 “All go unto one place, all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.” Eccl. 9:5 “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.” Ps. 6:5 “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?” Ps. 88:10 “Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise thee?” v. 11 “Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or thy faithfulness in destruction?” v. 12 “Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? And thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?” Ps. 115:17 “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.”

I believe these verses are talking about that which is the flesh part that is left in the casket, the 'outer man,' not that 'inner man' that has left the body. The flesh can do nothing once the person is dead and leaves their flesh. The flesh is conscious of nothing and the flesh returns to ashes just like an animal's flesh. The inner man immediately goes to be with the Lord.

Consider this passage:
Phil 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. 23But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. 25Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith, 26so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again.

Kathi

[Pastry]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2012,16:12)

Hi Georg, Doesn't this verse discount your theory that mind = spirit? 1 Cor 14:14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also. Kathi

This is what my Bible says.

1Cr 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

That changes things a little, don't you think?

1Cr 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

You see, today you can get a Bible that suits your believe.

Georg

[Pastry]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2012,16:31)

Georg, you said: Quote Yes, a dead body does look empty, empty of life, but he/she is not with the Lord; not consciously that is. I give you some scriptures you need to look at. Ps. 104:29   “Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled, thou takest away their breath, they die, and   return to their dust.” Eccl. 3:19   “For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man has no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.” v. 20   “All go unto one place, all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.” Eccl. 9:5   “For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.” Ps. 6:5   “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?” Ps. 88:10   “Wilt thou show wonders to the dead? Shall the dead arise and praise thee?” v. 11   “Shall thy lovingkindness be declared in the grave? Or thy faithfulness in destruction?” v. 12   “Shall thy wonders be known in the dark? And thy righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?” Ps. 115:17   “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.” I believe these verses are talking about that which is the flesh part that is left in the casket, the 'outer man,' not that 'inner man' that has left the body. The flesh can do nothing once the person is dead and leaves their flesh. The flesh is conscious of nothing and the flesh returns to ashes just like an animal's flesh. The inner man immediately goes to be with the Lord. Consider this passage: Phil 1:21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. 23But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. 25Convinced of this, I know that I will remain and continue with you all for your progress and joy in the faith, 26so that your proud confidence in me may abound in Christ Jesus through my coming to you again. Kathi

Kathi

I can't help what you believe; these scriptures say nothing about an inner man or an outer man.

Paul understood the resurrection, he is the one that explains it in 1 Cor. 15.
Yes to die is better; why do people write on tombstones, “rest in peace”? Paul understood that the next moment of consciousness, after the resurrection, would be with the Lord.
But he also understood how important it was to remain with church, as long as God would allow it.

Btw, show me a scripture that shows any one will go to heaven.

Georg

[NickHassan]

Hi georg,
We do not give credence to the beliefs or traditions of men.
There is one church-the Body of Christ

[Lightenup]

Hi Georg,
Give these two sites a look for more information on the inner man/ inner person.

http://bibletruthsonline.com/training%20the%20inner%20man.htm

http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/inner_man.htm

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2012,13:06)

Hi georg, We do not give credence to the beliefs or traditions of men. There is one church-the Body of Christ

Hi Nick,
Do you realize that many churches make up that one church that you speak of?

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
None.
God knows those who are His.

[Pastry]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 19 2012,07:43)

Hi Georg, Give these two sites a look for more information on the inner man/ inner person. http://bibletruthsonline.com/training%20the%20inner%20man.htm http://www.biblestudymanuals.net/inner_man.htm Kathi

So what you're suggesting is, all the scriptures I quoted for you are false?!

I for one tent to believe them.

Georg

[Lightenup]

Georg,
The scriptures are not false that you quoted, what I am suggesting is that your theory of spirit=mind is a wrong conclusion of those verses.

Also, your comment about the 'heart' having nothing to do with 'it' shows that you do not seem to know that the heart which pumps the blood is not meant in the over 800 times in scripture where 'heart' is mentioned.

The 'inner man' seems like a new term to you. I have shown you many verses that the term is found even in your preferred translation so perhaps you ought to ask the Lord to enlighten you as to what it means. Besides giving you several verses, I gave you a couple of links that help explain it further. Look them over.

I showed you a verse that clearly says that the spirit can be fruitful while the mind is not. You had a verse that had the word 'understanding' instead of 'mind' and you think that makes a difference. Where exactly is the understanding sorted out in a man if not in his mind?

Kathi

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ Feb. 18 2012,15:45)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Feb. 18 2012,13:06) Hi georg, We do not give credence to the beliefs or traditions of men. There is one church-the Body of Christ Hi Nick, Do you realize that many churches make up that one church that you speak of?

Nick,
I don't think that you read the question because 'none' doesn't fit as an answer.

Give it another go.

Kathi

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
None.
Only one door into the body of Christ

[Lightenup]

Nick,
There are many churches listed in the Bible.

See just a few:
1 Thess 1:1Paul and Silvanus and Timothy, To the church of the Thessalonians in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace.

2 Cor 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all the saints throughout Achaia:

Romans 16:I commend to you our sister Phoebe, who is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea;

Now there you see three churches that make up part of the body of Christ and there are so many more. I agree that there is only one 'door' and that is Christ but there are many churches within that one church containing all believers.

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
One body of Christ.

[Lightenup]

Nick,

Do you see that many churches make up the one body of Christ? Do you also see that the 'one body' is one church at large?

[NickHassan]

Hi LU,
Geography only divides the commited members.

[Proclaimer]

LU.

Nick is right.
“Geography only divides the commited members.”
So the churches is simply localities where the body reside and fellowship.

And you are right.
“Do you see that many churches make up the one body of Christ? Do you also see that the 'one body' is one church at large?”

Matthew 16
“And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it”.
Jesus said my Church, not my churches.

John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
Jesus is talking of his Church or those that are of him that we may be one.

1 Corinthians 1:2
To the Church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus.
To the Church that is in Corinth. In other words, the body of Christ located specifically in Corinth.

Romans 16:5
Greet also the Church that meets at their house. Greet my dear friend Epenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in the province of Asia.
We call this a home group these days. This is the part of the Body that meets in a certain persons house.

Colossians 4:15
Give my greetings to the brothers at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the Church in her house.
Another group in a household who fellowship.

Eph 2:19-22
[color=red]19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,
20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.
21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.
22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
The Church is likened to a Building or Temple that is a holy temple in the Lord which God lives in by his Spirit. Note “a holy temple”, not “holy temples”.

Revelation 19:7
Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready.
Who is the bride. Note that it doesn't say brides as in churches.

Ephesians 4:4-5
4 There is one body and one Spirit– just as you were called to one hope when you were called–
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;
6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Notice one body.

1 Corinthians 12:12-14
12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ.
13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.
14 Now the body is not made up of one part but of many.
There is one body made of many parts. Not many bodies.

The clincher is this scripture:
Ephesians 1:22-23
22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

The Church is the body and we know there is one body and that the body has many parts.

So the word churches is simply that part of the Church or Body of Christ in a specific geographical location.

[shimmer]

Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 18 2012,06:14)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 22 2011,16:32) Devolution, You have demonstrated that the Holy Spirit is probably not a 3rd person but you have not demonstrated that He is not the 'inner person' of the Father and Son united which is what I believe.  I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is merely the spirit of truth although the Holy Spirit would certainly portray and lead in truth.  Man's spirit is his 'inner person' and that is why I think that the spirit of the Father and the spirit of the Son would be their 'inner person' except that their 'inner person' would  be able to extend from them as one united spirit to creation without ever completely leaving them.  I believe that their spirit is their means of being in many places at once yet not personally.  It is how they can be in heaven and also dwell in the believer…through their inner person.  Just some thoughts. Take care, Kathi Hi Kathi There is a simpler way of putting what you refer to as the “inner person”, it's called, the mind. Referring to your inner person; does that make you two? or, does your inner person do things on her own? What did Paul meant by when he said. Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:   What mind was in Jesus? was it not God's Holy Mind, his Holy Spirit? Is it not true that what you call, the inner person, is our mind? is it not our mind that Paul referred to when he said. 1Cr 2:11   For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him?… Why did Paul referred to our mind as spirit? because as all spirits are invisible, so is our mind. Our mind acts according to what information is stored in our brain, that part is visible. Georg

Georg, I have to say that I agree with LU on this one.
Every man has his own spirit, (and some – also have the Holy Spirit).

Our own spirit knows the deepest things about us which no-one else may know, (and as LU rightly says, the word 'Heart' has nothing to do with the actual “”Heart””, but is located somewhere in the area of the Heart, and is responsible for our deepest inner feelings, both good and bad, and our mind works with it. There's so much more I could say on this, but I can't right now.

[Marlin1]

Cavedave,

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Many times we make things far more diffacult then they need to be. God is Spirit and there is now where you can go and be away from Him. So many think as Gods Spirit as something He does as an after thought. Many things are written to those with limited understanding so He gives us pictures and shadows of things and then men do as they always do they make the pictures into doctrine and kill all those who cross the lines of thier limited understanding. The one God is not a spirit cut up in pieces. God is Spirit Him and His word are one. And we are one with Him in Christ. The funny part is all the scripture in the world will not get any to see these things. Only knowing Him or being in Him will do this. As Paul said no one told me these things. He knew about God because he knew Him. He Christ Gods very word the living word not the dead letter was now his life. This is how it should be with all those who are truly His all else is folly. The one true God is Spirit. He gives us all of who He is in Christ and now Christ is in us if we have truly been born from above. The sons of God would never kill or cut off a brother or sister for what they believe it would be the same as cutting off your own arm. Sometime children will do this to their parents. This is spritural not natural children or parents. In this day many of the children will rise up to kill the parents or elders thinking they will lose thier place in the world or church system. Though in the times ahead none will be able to stay the hand of our Father for He is a mighty God and all the world will know this for sure shorlty.

AMEN  

Marlin

[NickHassan]

Yes CD.

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