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Even Jesus in Heaven – we are to Pray to the Father Through Jesus, the Son.
Always, TO the Father…
And where has ANYONE WRITTEN A PRAYER To The Holy Spirit?
Why not? Because even staunch Trinitarians know NOT TO DO THAT…
They know it is a Sin – so even while pretending to, or even claiming to, they NEVER ACTUALLY DO So…WJ, I have asked you before whether you worship the Holy Spirit – and you could oh answer with slight of mouth…
Can I ask you again – plainly: 'WorshippingJesus, Keith, DO YOU WORSHIP THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD?'
And, ditto, to Jesus… Do you REALLY worship Jesus?When you pray, do you not pray THROUGH the Son, and TO the father – Why is it THAT WAY?
Pray through a mediator to get to petition the SOURCE OF ALL GOODNESS, power, authority, righteousness, Triuth and Love!Is the mediator equal to the one he mediated for?
Is not the mediator the one who stands at the door and hears the petition of a lesser one outside and then brings that petition to the King or Ruler or Judge within?
Mediator, in this context, is not concerning two equal warring parties who cannot reach a satisfactory outcome over an issue.
No, this is one who, like a language expert, hears one thing from one source and translates it to another for the ears of the other of higher rank.
Like a lawyer speaks the common words of the defendant in the eluquent language of the judge – and vice versa for the response!Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2011,13:34) Hi All Everyone has a right to their opinion don't they?
WJ
WJI can not agree more on this with you ,everyone can chose but there are only two ways ,
1) with God
2) without God.
it is as simple as that .
the trinity is not scriptural because first the holy spirit is not a being,that would only leave a duality,and God says that he alone is God,so now we are here unilaterally one.
but this is the bible says ,not my opinion.
Pierre
Hi All
I know in whom I have believed and am persuaded he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
I am saved, and filled with the Holy Ghost and Fire and the Spirit bears witness with my spirit that Jesus is my Great God and Savour.
WJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2011,06:34) Hi All Everyone has a right to their opinion don't they?
WJ
Yes they do, even if it is wrong.
Likewise people have the right to sin.
Not all rights are right.
They are just what is permissible.
But all that is permissible has a price, whether good or bad.So this 'Right to an opinion' is WJ's reply to my questions on 'Trinity: the fallacy'?
Is this tantamount to 'Taking the Fifth', WJ?
You 'DON'T worship the HOLY SPIRIT', like your doctrine suggests?
And what of the rest – is the light starting to shine – I hope so… For your sake!
True Istari.
It is written that men will kill and think that they are doing God a favour.
John 16:2
They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God.Men have crazy ideas about God and what God wants, the daily news is testament to that fact.
The reason why we must hear the voice of God. Otherwise we will listen to our own voice or the voice of another and call that God.
“For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
No excuses. We must hear and be led by the Spirit of God.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 01 2011,16:23) Hi All I know in whom I have believed and am persuaded he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
I am saved, and filled with the Holy Ghost and Fire and the Spirit bears witness with my spirit that Jesus is my Great God and Savour.
WJ
WJyou may convince your self of being lead by the holy spirit ;but the holy spirit is the truth reveal by God trough the scriptures that were transmitted trough the apostles and there followers ,and if your trinity is not plainly stated as a truth of God then it is from the devil ,since there is only two alternatives one or the other,
many who are in a religion beleive in themselves that because they are held in great esteem in there entourage that the good feeling is a approval of God ,wrong it is of men.
there could not be a lie in a righteous men not in Gods word.
Pierre
Oh, and I just noticed the sneaky 'MY God' in WJ's post.
This is significant in that WJ is not saying that Jesus is GOD ALMIGHTY (YHVH) but that Jesus, Like THOMAS, is his personal ('MY') Mighty Saviour… Which is a Truism… Jesus IS a MIGHTY SAVIOUR: a 'Mighty God' – which Scriptures says.
So WJ has said nothing but made a smokescreen and nearly got away with it.
WJ, and I see you isolate Jesus as your SAVIOUR only – is GOD ALMIGHTY (YHVH) not the primary saviour who designates the task to his luitenent, Jesus?
And does the Holy Spirit not also saves…? Is it not BY the Spirit of YHVH, given to Christ Jesus, that the dead are raised up and Jesus (and the 144,000 elect) assigns the multitude to everlasting life?
(The elect are raised first, already assigned to everlasting life and sit as judge with the head-Judge – Christ!)Quick question to all …
What is the significance of the CONSTANT use of the FRACTAL of the most beloved of God Almighty being the LEAST/Smallest/Youngest of the Sonship/Nations/Peoples…?Israel was the 'Fewest' of the nations.
David was the Youngest of his brothers and smallest and least 'comely'.
Lucifer was the 'Most bejewelled' of the Sons of God
King Saul (!!) was the tallest most handsome of his tribe.
Bethlehem was the smallest most insignificant town in the district
Nazareth was the most despised
The eventual 'Begotten Son' was not the 'First born' but the most beloved (as has been pointed out and I have written CONSTANTLY) therefore 'Begotten Son' pertains to Jesus after he was – Like ISAAC, FIGURATIVELY (Actually) raised from the dead.What is this repeated theme all about and what should we learn concerning Jesus.
And the ways of God Amighty (YHVH)?Esau was the stronger – but sold his birthright to Jacob.
David's eldest brother was haughty and sinned.
Adam, the first man, sinned
Ishmael, despised his younger brother, Isaac
Josephs brothers despised him, put him 'in the pit' (figurative death)
Jesus' brothers (Jews) put him in (the pit of) Sheol
Israel was figuratively dead when the temple was raised to the ground by the nations but was made alive again through the remnants…More – if there are enough good answer this can be a thread to itself.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ April 14 2011,05:22) t8 You didn't answer my questions. Why not?
The fact that Jesus has a body and our bodies are going to be changed and fashioned like his glorious body is further proof that Jesus is not an angel.
Are you saying we are brothers to his divine nature or his human nature?
WJ, I have read this for the first time.My answer is that we are holy and also the children of God.
Do you have children? They are like you in what way? Perhaps looking at it that way might answer the question for you.
Quote (Lightenup @ April 12 2011,09:35) t8,
Why do you believe that Jesus could empty Himself of His nature? I believe that it wasn't His nature that He emptied Himself of because I don't think that is possible for Him. He may have emptied Himself of receiving the privileges that go with divinity, like the riches of heaven, and the glory that He had with the Father, even of His memory, but not His divinity.Here is not a perfect example but maybe you will get the idea:
If a prince from one country wanted to go to another country and live like a pauper where no one identified him in order to experience that lifestyle and be better able to relate to the lower class, he didn't need to empty himself of his royalty…he couldn't possible empty himself of his royal blood. He did set aside the privileges of that royalty though.Anyway, that is how I understand it.
I have never said that because it doesn't say for sure that this is the case, although it is certainly a possibility.I have said that he existed with divine nature and emptied himself and partook of human nature. Perhaps you read too far between the lines.
It appears that he started from scratch so to speak because he left behind the glory that he had with God before the world begun but eventually returned to that glory.
Starting from scratch or emptying himself at least signifies that he left much if not almost everything behind. I say almost everything because, he would have still been the same identity no matter what sort of body or nature he partook of.
And what use is a Sacrifice if the Sacrificed person still retained all that he had during the sacrificial period?
If a rich man was being tested to see if he could live as a poor man – whywould he still have access to all his riches while 'pretending' to be a poor man?
But, if while being poor, he reaches out in petition to one who can aid him in godliness and not steal, kill, rob, do evi deeds etc., but strengthen himself living within or even under his means, then he shows that it IS POSSIBLE for others to do the same – for no one was more vilified than him for he was FULL OF TRUTH (The Potential Difference of power! A poor man made a little poorer has lost little. A rich man made poor has lost a huge amount – a man of Truth being abused for telling the truth is Hurt to the extreme.)
So, yes, Jesus' glory was taken away – not only that but being a Spirit being and then made flesh is extreme in the most. A spirit can come down in the likeness of man in the restricted flesh world – but then RETURN BY ITSELF to the free unembumbered Spirit world. A flesh being cannot… So Jesus was stuck as man until he was reGlorified.
And God raised him HIGHER than he was before: 'I have glorified your name, then glorified it AGAIN'.
All those who say that Jesus was God ask yourself – if he was God, how is he Magnified more than when he was in heaven before!
And even so, surely to become HIGH PRIEST to God is a DEMOTION for one who IS ALREADY GOD?
To BECOME A MEDIATOR between GOD(?) and MAN is surely a DEMOTION from being GOD ALMIGHTY!
So, How is God Almighty simply 'Kreitton' (Better) than Jesus – no, God Almighty is GREATER than Jesus – Jesus says so plainly!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ May 31 2011,17:23) Hi All I know in whom I have believed and am persuaded he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
I am saved, and filled with the Holy Ghost and Fire and the Spirit bears witness with my spirit that Jesus is my Great God and Savour.
WJ
Hi AllSo why am I being attacked for quoting scriptures and confessing that I know in whom I believe?
Why am I being attacked for confessing Jesus as my Great God and Savour? That is a scriptural confession isn't it?
Doesn't the scriptures tell us Jesus is “God with us?”
It is very telling and reminds me of what t8 just posted about men wanting to kill Jesus followers.
WJ
Quote (Istari @ May 31 2011,18:02) So this 'Right to an opinion' is WJ's reply to my questions on 'Trinity: the fallacy'? Is this tantamount to 'Taking the Fifth', WJ?
You 'DON'T worship the HOLY SPIRIT', like your doctrine suggests?
And what of the rest – is the light starting to shine – I hope so… For your sake!
JAIts tantamount to me not wanting to have discourse with you JA.
However the post I made concerning the Trinity doesn't need my defence because it debunks your anti-Jesus is God claims.
I noticed you didn't point out any part of the post specifically and give us your reason why the scriptures cannot be interpreted that way.
WJ
WJ,
You are clever – I called you a God!
But you are not even half as clever as you think you are.You don't answer me because what you say would discredit you: You DO NOT WORSHIP THE HOLY SPIRIT – NEITHER DO YOU WORSHIP JESUS.
You only say these things to uphold your view of the Trinity.
Ask me: 'Do you, JA, worship Jesus?'
I answer: 'No, Keith, I do not worship Jesus'Ask me: 'JA, do you worship the Holy Spirit?'
I answer: 'No, Keith, I do not worship the Holy Spirit'Ask me: 'Do you worship the Father, JA?'
I answer: 'Yes, Keith, I do worship the Father'Ask me: 'Do you worship, JA, God Almighty?'
I answer: 'Keith, Yes, I worship God Almighty, the Heavenly Father'See, WJ, there is no trick, no slight of hand in the words, no Trojan horse in the question!
So, replace 'Keith' and 'JA' from above with 'JA' and 'Keith'.
Please just answer – it is not a trick – honestly – trust me, I'm a honest and trustworthy!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2011,22:17) Quote (Lightenup @ April 11 2011,16:35) t8,
Why do you believe that Jesus could empty Himself of His nature?
Hi Kathi,That's just one of the Trinitarian tricks that they didn't really think through before claiming. “Morphe” refers to “the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision, or external appearance”. But in an effort to claim Jesus has the same “nature” of his God, the trinni's have now mostly gone with the word “nature” instead of form.
But it has backfired on them because verse 7 clearly says Jesus “emptied himself” of this “morphe”. So if it meant “nature”, then 2:7 says Jesus emptied himself of the nature of God.
mike
MikeOf course your self studies has made you greater than AT Robertson…
Being (uparcwn). Rather, “existing,” present active participle of uparcw. In the form of God (en morph qeou). Morph means the essential attributes as shown in the form. In his preincarnate state Christ possessed the attributes of God and so appeared to those in heaven who saw him. Here is a clear statement by Paul of the deity of Christ. A prize (arpagmon). Predicate accusative with hghsato. Originally words in -mo signified the act, not the result (-ma). The few examples of arpagmo (Plutarch, etc.) allow it to be understood as equivalent to arpagma, like baptismo and baptisma. That is to say Paul means a prize to be held on to rather than something to be won (“robbery”). To be on an equality with God (to einai isa qeoi). Accusative articular infinitive object of hghsato, “the being equal with God”[/.b] (associative instrumental case qewi after isa). Isa is adverbial use of neuter plural with einai as in Revelation 21:16 . Emptied himself (eauton ekenwse). First aorist active indicative of kenow, old verb from keno, empty. [b]Of what did Christ empty himself? Not of his divine nature. That was impossible. He continued to be the Son of God. There has arisen a great controversy on this word, a Kenosi doctrine. Undoubtedly Christ gave up his environment of glory. He took upon himself limitations of place (space) and of knowledge and of power, though still on earth retaining more of these than any mere man. It is here that men should show restraint and modesty, though it is hard to believe that Jesus limited himself by error of knowledge and certainly not by error of conduct. He was without sin, though tempted as we are. “He stripped himself of the insignia of majesty” (Lightfoot).
I think I will go with ATR.
WJ
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