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Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 27 2010,10:34) WJ…………..Mighty God and the (ALMIGHTY GOD) are not the same thing. One is powerful the other is (ALL) powerful. Saying they are the same is an (ASSUMPTION) on you part.
The assumption is on your part.For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, “The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Isa 9:6
The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto “the mighty God“. Isa 10:21
You assume Isaiah 9:6 is not the same Mighty God which is clearly YHWH in Isa 10:21 though Isaiah speaks with the same Hebrew structure in the same breath.
Why would he do that?
WJ
Gene said:
Quote WJ…………..Mighty God and the (ALMIGHTY GOD) are not the same thing. One is powerful the other is (ALL) powerful. Saying they are the same is an (ASSUMPTION) on you part.
Gene,This argument is soooo lame!
Both Jehovah and Jesus are called “the Mighty God” (Is. 9:6 with 10:21).Jesus is also called “the father of eternity”
“For a Child hath been born to us, A Son hath been given to us, And the princely power is on his shoulder, And He doth call his name Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Father of Eternity, Prince of Peace.” Young's Literal Translation
The expression “father of eternity” means that Jesus is eternal.
KJ
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,10:03) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 27 2010,09:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,01:39) Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,07:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2010,11:41) Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,20:02) Jesus is both 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man'
Exactly, Son of God and Son of Man.Son of man = man
Son of God = God
Jesus is both God and man for he is the Word that was with God and was God who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh and became the “Monogenes” (only of its Kind) Son of God.
Sorry JA, there is only “One” Monogenes Son of God!
WJ
Hi WJ,If Jesus is God, how can he be His son? Son of God….
Thats like saying “If your Father is a man (human) then how can you be man (human)?
Keith,They don't get it!
Jack
True.They do not understand “God” is a title that classifies a being in a metaphysical class of his own.
All other “gods” (theos) are not (of his kind).
Jesus is the “Monogenes” (only of its kind) Son of God.
They hate the truth that is before them.
Jesus said they hate the light and will not come to it. He also says he is the light and men will not come to him.
This claim could only mean he is God because if not then Jesus was speaking blashemous words for demanding men come to him and not to God.
WJ
Hello WJ,The point is missed, “Jesus is the son of God.”
Again, son means that he is a male offspring coming FROM Him….and cannot be Him whom he comes from.[B][U]
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 28 2010,10:34) WJ…………..Mighty God and the (ALMIGHTY GOD) are not the same thing. One is powerful the other is (ALL) powerful. Saying they are the same is an (ASSUMPTION) on you part. Thomas called Jesus my Lord and My GOD, meaning the same person or being is also an (ASSUMPTION) on you part, You have no proof that he was not simply recognizing the GOD the Father was Present (IN) Jesus His LORD. The (AND) imply s (TWO) not necessarily the same person but can just as easily imply two being. Again another (ASSUMPTION) ON YOUR PART.
Titus 2: 13……….Same as above an (ASSUMPTION) on your part.
1 Cor 10:4 , do you see the word (Jesus) there, What my bible say is (CHRIST) meaning the anointing or Christos, the Spirit of GOD was the Rock that was guiding the Childern of Israel in the Wilderness, not Jesus, in fact the word Jesus is not even in there, Again another (ASSUMPTION) on your part.
John 1:1 again i do not see the word Jesus written there do you, so again you are (ASSUMING) it means Jesus.
2Peter 1:1………Still another (ASSUMPTION) on your part , the word (AND) is used to denote two beings not one and the same person.
Mat 1:23………..Indeed God was with us He was (IN) Jesus but that does (NOT) make Jesus the God that was (IN) Him, now does it?. Another (ASSUMPTION) on your part WJ.
So far all you give is an (ASSUMED) position with (NO) specific back up, just (ASSUMPTIONS) only WJ. NO Proofs. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Hi Gene,You are right on in most verses and even this on John 1:1 except that later in the chapter it does identify the “Word” as Jesus Christ v 14, & 17.
But the Word (Jesus, SON of God) can not be God (Father), biological absurdity. Word (son) = Father (God)
I believe that the word “of” is missing from before the last word “God” in the translation in order to adhere to their preconceived bias of the Trinity.
Verse 2 clarifies that the Word was WITH God and cannot be the “person” he is WITH.
Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,12:23) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,10:03) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 27 2010,09:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,01:39) Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,07:05) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 27 2010,11:41) Quote (JustAskin @ July 23 2010,20:02) Jesus is both 'Son of God' and 'Son of Man'
Exactly, Son of God and Son of Man.Son of man = man
Son of God = God
Jesus is both God and man for he is the Word that was with God and was God who took on the likeness of sinfull flesh and became the “Monogenes” (only of its Kind) Son of God.
Sorry JA, there is only “One” Monogenes Son of God!
WJ
Hi WJ,If Jesus is God, how can he be His son? Son of God….
Thats like saying “If your Father is a man (human) then how can you be man (human)?
Keith,They don't get it!
Jack
True.They do not understand “God” is a title that classifies a being in a metaphysical class of his own.
All other “gods” (theos) are not (of his kind).
Jesus is the “Monogenes” (only of its kind) Son of God.
They hate the truth that is before them.
Jesus said they hate the light and will not come to it. He also says he is the light and men will not come to him.
This claim could only mean he is God because if not then Jesus was speaking blashemous words for demanding men come to him and not to God.
WJ
Hello WJ,The point is missed, “Jesus is the son of God.”
Again, son means that he is a male offspring coming FROM Him….and cannot be Him whom he comes from.[B][U]
I am not saying that he is “Him who he comes from”, that is a Modalist view.The fact is Jesus is the “Monogenes” (only of its Kind) Son of God which means he has the exact nature of his Father which is God, just like you have the exact nature of your Father which is man or human.
Are the titles “God” and “Son of God” antithetical?
WJ
Davidbfun said;
Quote But the Word (Jesus, SON of God) can not be God (Father), biological absurdity. Word (son) = Father (God)
Of course the son cannot be the father biologically. But the son can be ontologically the same as the father.Son of Man = Man.
Son of God = God (though not the Father).
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,10:54) Gene said; Quote Thomas called Jesus my Lord and My GOD, meaning the same person or being is also an (ASSUMPTION) on you part, You have no proof that he was not simply recognizing the GOD the Father was Present (IN) Jesus His LORD. The (AND) imply s (TWO) not necessarily the same person but can just as easily imply two being. Again another (ASSUMPTION) ON YOUR PART. Gene,
You are a deceived man. First, the narrative says that Thomas said to HIM (Jesus), “My Lord and My God.” Thomas was addressing JESUS calling Him “My Lord and my God.”
Second, the nominative “God” is being used as a vocative in the EXACT SAME MANNER as the preceding nominative “Lord” and the nominative “King” as in “Hail, King of the Jews.”
John 19:3, “Hail, King of the Jews” (the noun “King” is nominative vocative).
John 20:28: And he (Thomas) said to Him (Jesus), “My Lord and my God” (the nouns “Lord” and “God” are both nominative vocative).
So much for your claim that WJ has no proof. Weep and repent Gene!
the Roo
Herr Roo,So let's get this straight, Thomas' “God” could die? And then needed to be resurrected? Wow!
Here is part of the dictionary defining “theos” that you don't want to use:
4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
a) God's representative or viceregent
1) of magistrates and judgesThis verse only makes sense if he was considered to be God 's representative. Otherewise he spent 3 1/2 years walking with God and didn't know it….and now a “supernatural” relevation?
Jesus is our Lord because he bought us with his blood and since we are his and were once called “slaves” but no longer, he would be Lord and “Master”, which would fit the context.
And from this ONE verse an entire doctrine is based without “logical” basis.
And to preclude any confusion about who Jesus IS, read what John wrote a 3 verses later:
20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
It all goes back to Jesus being “the son of God” and NOT God whom He comes from.
You keep avoiding to address this information….SON from God.
All of your Scripture quoting is useless unless you address the dilemma of Jesus claiming to be the son of God and NOT “GOD, the Son.”
Mark 1:1 ….Gospel of the son of God….
Matt 27:43 “HE TRUSTS IN GOD; LET GOD RESCUE Him now, IF HE DELIGHTS IN HIM; for He said, 'I am the Son of God.'”
Jesus referred to himself as “the son of Man” and “the son of God” but NEVER God.
Show ONE verse where JESUS makes the direct claim of being God without YOU inferring what is meant, PLEASE!
Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,04:46) Davidbfun said; Quote But the Word (Jesus, SON of God) can not be God (Father), biological absurdity. Word (son) = Father (God)
Of course the son cannot be the father biologically. But the son can be ontologically the same as the father.Son of Man = Man.
Son of God = God (though not the Father).
KJ
Hi Jack,“Bible Truth”: Jesus lineage is clearly written in “The Bible”; why put the systems of religion above Bible Truth?
The systems of religion and traditions of men do communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.50% “Son of Man” = “Son of Mary” (Matt.1:18 / Matt:1:20 / Mark 6:3 / Luke 1:35)
50% “Son of God” = “Son of The HolySpirit” (Matt. 1:18 / Matt. 1:20 / Luke 1:35)Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgDavidbfun said:
Quote So let's get this straight, Thomas' “God” could die? And then needed to be resurrected? Wow!
The scripture says that Jesus was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. His spirit did not die but went down to hades ALIVE.the Roo
David
Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,13:06) Here is part of the dictionary defining “theos” that you don't want to use: 4) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
a) God's representative or viceregent
1) of magistrates and judges
And here is the part of the definiton of “Theos” that you don't like…the Godhead, trinity
a) God the Father, the first person in the trinity
b) Christ, the second person of the trinity
c) Holy Spirit, the third person in the trinity
What part of the Jesus is the Monogenes (only of its kind) Son of God is not clear to you?
Again…
Son of man = man
Son of God = God
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2010,13:11) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,04:46) Davidbfun said; Quote But the Word (Jesus, SON of God) can not be God (Father), biological absurdity. Word (son) = Father (God)
Of course the son cannot be the father biologically. But the son can be ontologically the same as the father.Son of Man = Man.
Son of God = God (though not the Father).
KJ
Hi Jack,“Bible Truth”: Jesus lineage is clearly written in “The Bible”; why put the systems of religion above Bible Truth?
The systems of religion and traditions of men do communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.50% “Son of Man” = “Son of Mary” (Matt.1:18 / Matt:1:20 / Mark 6:3 / Luke 1:35)
50% “Son of God” = “Son of The HolySpirit” (Matt. 1:18 / Matt. 1:20 / Luke 1:35)Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
There is no scripture that uses the term “Son of the Holy Spirit”! Please present a scripture that says “Son of the Holy Spirit”.The systems of religion and traditions of men do communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.WJ
HI Everybody,
Can you reconcile these two Scriptures together, I can![/color]
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Jn.8:14 …Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true…John 5:37 is therefore fulfilled today in your reading of this Post! (Rev.21:2-3)
Luke 10:30-37 will help you understand who [יהשוע המשיח] YÄ-shü-ă hä-Mäh-shē-äkh was! (John 8:14)
This is an exegetical parable about [יהשוע המשיח] and “His neighbor” [יהוה האלהים]! (John 5:37)Luke 10:30-37 And Jesus answering said, A certain man (Jesus) went down from Jerusalem to Jericho,
and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.
And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.
And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.
But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,
And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him
to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to
the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will
repay thee. Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?
And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים(JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,12:46) Davidbfun said; Quote But the Word (Jesus, SON of God) can not be God (Father), biological absurdity. Word (son) = Father (God)
Of course the son cannot be the father biologically. But the son can be ontologically the same as the father.Son of Man = Man.
Son of God = God (though not the Father).
KJ
Hello Roo,How can he metaphysically be the same as the Father. If he is then we are, too.
You agreed that the son cannot be the Father and then you add BUT he can be ontologically.
That's not what the Bible is saying….there is no if's, ands, or buts. He is the son of God….physically. Not “meta”.
Ontology; a field that came into existence in the 1700s.
What's next? Logic doesn't work and the Bible doesn't work what other -ology do you want to use to disprove the Bible? Scientology ?
Ed J said:
Quote 50% “Son of Man” = “Son of Mary” (Matt.1:18 / Matt:1:20 / Mark 6:3 / Luke 1:35)
50% “Son of God” = “Son of The HolySpirit” (Matt. 1:18 / Matt. 1:20 / Luke 1:35)
How does one reply to baby drivel?
the Roo
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,05:26) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2010,13:11) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,04:46) Davidbfun said; Quote But the Word (Jesus, SON of God) can not be God (Father), biological absurdity. Word (son) = Father (God)
Of course the son cannot be the father biologically. But the son can be ontologically the same as the father.Son of Man = Man.
Son of God = God (though not the Father).
KJ
Hi Jack,“Bible Truth”: Jesus lineage is clearly written in “The Bible”; why put the systems of religion above Bible Truth?
The systems of religion and traditions of men do communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.50% “Son of Man” = “Son of Mary” (Matt.1:18 / Matt:1:20 / Mark 6:3 / Luke 1:35)
50% “Son of God” = “Son of The HolySpirit” (Matt. 1:18 / Matt. 1:20 / Luke 1:35)Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
There is no scripture that uses the term “Son of the Holy Spirit”! Please present a scripture that says “Son of the Holy Spirit”.The systems of religion and traditions of men do communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.WJ
Hi WJ,What does the combination of Eph.4:6 combined with Matt.1:18, Matt.1:20 and Luke 1:35 say to you?
Matt.1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused
to Joseph, before they came (consummated) together, she was found with child of the HolySpirit.
Matt.1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto
him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife:
for that which is conceived in her is of the HolySpirit. (Son of the HolySpirit = Son of God)
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The HolySpirit shall come upon
thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that
holy thing(Jesus) which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,05:32) Ed J said: Quote 50% “Son of Man” = “Son of Mary” (Matt.1:18 / Matt:1:20 / Mark 6:3 / Luke 1:35)
50% “Son of God” = “Son of The HolySpirit” (Matt. 1:18 / Matt. 1:20 / Luke 1:35)
How does one reply to baby drivel? the Roo
Hi Jack,Does this mean you reject Bible Truth?
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgDavidbfun said:
Quote You agreed that the son cannot be the Father and then you add BUT he can be ontologically.
You are not the same person as your father but you are the same ontologically. A son is Man like his father. Your father is dust. You are dust. So Jesus is God like His Father. The NEB says, “and what God was the Word was.”the Roo
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 28 2010,13:26) Quote (Ed J @ July 27 2010,13:11) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,04:46) Davidbfun said; Quote But the Word (Jesus, SON of God) can not be God (Father), biological absurdity. Word (son) = Father (God)
Of course the son cannot be the father biologically. But the son can be ontologically the same as the father.Son of Man = Man.
Son of God = God (though not the Father).
KJ
Hi Jack,“Bible Truth”: Jesus lineage is clearly written in “The Bible”; why put the systems of religion above Bible Truth?
The systems of religion and traditions of men do communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.50% “Son of Man” = “Son of Mary” (Matt.1:18 / Matt:1:20 / Mark 6:3 / Luke 1:35)
50% “Son of God” = “Son of The HolySpirit” (Matt. 1:18 / Matt. 1:20 / Luke 1:35)Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
There is no scripture that uses the term “Son of the Holy Spirit”! Please present a scripture that says “Son of the Holy Spirit”.The systems of religion and traditions of men do communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.WJ
Hi WJ,Ed was perfectly clear in the verses Mt 1:18, 20; Lu 1:35
Matthew 1:18 ….before they came together she was found to be with child “by the Holy Spirit”.
v. 20 the Child who has been conceived in her is “of the Holy Spirit.”Luke 1:35 The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Luke not only explains how the Holy Spirit is going to impregnate Mary (in vitro) but that the Holy Spirit is God.
Quote (davidbfun @ July 27 2010,13:30) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,12:46) Davidbfun said; Quote But the Word (Jesus, SON of God) can not be God (Father), biological absurdity. Word (son) = Father (God)
Of course the son cannot be the father biologically. But the son can be ontologically the same as the father.Son of Man = Man.
Son of God = God (though not the Father).
KJ
Hello Roo,How can he metaphysically be the same as the Father. If he is then we are, too.
You agreed that the son cannot be the Father and then you add BUT he can be ontologically.
That's not what the Bible is saying….there is no if's, ands, or buts. He is the son of God….physically. Not “meta”.
Ontology; a field that came into existence in the 1700s.
What's next? Logic doesn't work and the Bible doesn't work what other -ology do you want to use to disprove the Bible? Scientology ?
There are plenty of scriptures that says Jesus is God.The burden of proof is on you to show how Jesus is of another kind of God or less in nature than the Father.
Jesus is the Monogenes (only of its kind) Son of God.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you are of your Fathers kind (Human or man).
Jesus is of the Fathers kind, God.
So men stumble over the simplicity of it. But then again scritpures tell us that men would stumble over the Rock of truth.
The last laugh is on you for the word says…
In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and “the Word was God” John 1:1
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of One and Only,(Monogenes) came from the Father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14
No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known. John 1:18
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ July 28 2010,05:37) Quote (Kangaroo Jack @ July 28 2010,05:32) Ed J said: Quote 50% “Son of Man” = “Son of Mary” (Matt.1:18 / Matt:1:20 / Mark 6:3 / Luke 1:35)
50% “Son of God” = “Son of The HolySpirit” (Matt. 1:18 / Matt. 1:20 / Luke 1:35)
How does one reply to baby drivel? the Roo
Hi Jack,Does this mean you reject Bible Truth?
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
It means your 50% Son of Man and 50% Son of God formula is unintelligible. I don't know how to reply to such a high level of nonsense. It's goo goo ga ga.the Roo
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