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Quote (bodhitharta @ May 06 2010,05:59) Quote (942767 @ May 05 2010,11:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,14:18) Quote (karmarie @ May 03 2010,12:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,10:35) Quote (karmarie @ May 03 2010,09:16) I cant believe I put that there. Anyways, when I used the words 'played the victim' I just found out that means something different than I thought, it should say 'was the victim…and felt sorry for myself” But thats all past and is things Id rather not talk about especially on an internet forum. Its just the questions you ask, saying theres no forgivness? Saying everyone has to have always been perfect, 1st John 1:10; If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Ecclesiastes; There is no man on earth of such righteousness that he does good and is free from sin all his days.
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
So are you perfect? Do you have a perfect past?
Jesus was a man.Ecclesiastes; There is no man on earth of such righteousness that he does good and is free from sin all his days
Did Jesus sin?
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Was Jesus born of a woman?
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matthew 11:10-12Jesus said be perfect, are you Perfect?
You can't ask me the question because you said that you go exclusively by what Jesus said whereas I have said I get clarification from The Quran.
To you, Jesus was just a Man, to me he is more than just a man, who was his father? Was it a man? It was the Holy Spirit… so those verses you put dont fit.You said “did Jesus sin?”
He was a lamb without blemish..
If you go on to say he sinned by his display of anger at the money lenders of the temple, it was righteous anger. As was the harsh words spoken to the scribes, pharisees and like. Anger at the right things isnt wrong.
Ephesians 4: 26;.. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: . Neither give place to the devil.
Why do you continue to get parts from the bible to suit the Quran but ignore those which disagree with it? The Quran came much later than the Bible, than the teachings of our Lord and master Jesus, it was written by a man and like iv said- who was he to call Jesus a liar?
So you say the Holy Spirit is a MAN?If not why call the HOLY SPIRIT “Father” ?
Does righteous anger include:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Luke 19:26-28If you agree with that verse why dispute that Jesus authorizes this slaying here?
Hi BD:
The discussion relative to violence was in response to your trying to accuse Jesus of sin. And so, Babylon may have been violently overthrown, but this was an act of judgment by God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,I never said Jesus sinned, Can you show me such a comment?
Hi BD:Maybe, you did not say that specifically sinned but that is what I gathered that you were saying from the discussion with Karamie.
Since the following scripture was quoted pertaining to Jesus being a man, I thought that you were saying that he had sinned.
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
If I have misunderstood this, then I ask you to forgive me.
Romans 3:23 does not apply to Jesus because he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary and he was not born of the sperm of man. All men born of the sperm of man have sinned.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (Stu @ May 05 2010,20:21) Quote (942767 @ May 05 2010,10:01) Quote (Stu @ May 04 2010,20:24) Quote (942767 @ May 03 2010,21:42) Quote (Stu @ May 03 2010,21:18) Quote (942767 @ May 03 2010,21:14) Hi BD: Luke 19:26-28 alludes to the day of judgment when all those who are not a part of the body of Christ will be destroyed.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Jesus's love is embodied in his threat to destroy people.Stuart
Hi Stu:It is not God's will that any man be destroyed, but if he is destroyed, it is because he chose not to be reconciled to God.
Quote John 3:16-18 (King James Version) 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Someone who has chosen not to be reconciled to God will be judged according to the life that he lived. Every man will give an account to God for the life that he lived on the day of judgment. Since all of us have broken God's law, the punishment will be according to the offence.
Love in Christ,
Marty
This is all a bit psychopathic really, isn't it.I didn't want to destroy anyone judge, but…
Just shows you what a nonsense the concept of free will is.
Stuart
No, I don't see it that way. He has given you a choice.Quote John 3:17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Love in Christ,
Marty
What, you can't see that there really is no choice to make when following one of the options ends in violent retribution by an all-powerful deity? Where would the free choice be there?What a nonsense religious platitude it is.
Stuart
Hi Stu:Well, granted, if you choose not to serve God, it is not a very wise choice, but it is still a choice. It means that you do not want to be saved. A very bad choice, don't you think?
But if that is your choice, then you can live your life any way that you want to live it until you die or as long as this world continues.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (karmarie @ May 06 2010,10:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,10:35) Jesus was a man. Ecclesiastes; There is no man on earth of such righteousness that he does good and is free from sin all his days
Did Jesus sin?
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Was Jesus born of a woman?
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matthew 11:10-12Here maybe- (Back a page or two).
Perhaps you have an evil mind, was I saying that Jesus sinned or that the scriptures was unclear?If Jesus did not sin then the scriptures are certainly not clear.
If you imply that I said Jesus sinned because of the very verses you put all your faith in then you should explain the verses and not accuse me of something I did not say.
Quote (942767 @ May 06 2010,10:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 06 2010,05:59) Quote (942767 @ May 05 2010,11:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,14:18) Quote (karmarie @ May 03 2010,12:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,10:35) Quote (karmarie @ May 03 2010,09:16) I cant believe I put that there. Anyways, when I used the words 'played the victim' I just found out that means something different than I thought, it should say 'was the victim…and felt sorry for myself” But thats all past and is things Id rather not talk about especially on an internet forum. Its just the questions you ask, saying theres no forgivness? Saying everyone has to have always been perfect, 1st John 1:10; If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Ecclesiastes; There is no man on earth of such righteousness that he does good and is free from sin all his days.
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
So are you perfect? Do you have a perfect past?
Jesus was a man.Ecclesiastes; There is no man on earth of such righteousness that he does good and is free from sin all his days
Did Jesus sin?
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Was Jesus born of a woman?
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matthew 11:10-12Jesus said be perfect, are you Perfect?
You can't ask me the question because you said that you go exclusively by what Jesus said whereas I have said I get clarification from The Quran.
To you, Jesus was just a Man, to me he is more than just a man, who was his father? Was it a man? It was the Holy Spirit… so those verses you put dont fit.You said “did Jesus sin?”
He was a lamb without blemish..
If you go on to say he sinned by his display of anger at the money lenders of the temple, it was righteous anger. As was the harsh words spoken to the scribes, pharisees and like. Anger at the right things isnt wrong.
Ephesians 4: 26;.. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: . Neither give place to the devil.
Why do you continue to get parts from the bible to suit the Quran but ignore those which disagree with it? The Quran came much later than the Bible, than the teachings of our Lord and master Jesus, it was written by a man and like iv said- who was he to call Jesus a liar?
So you say the Holy Spirit is a MAN?If not why call the HOLY SPIRIT “Father” ?
Does righteous anger include:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Luke 19:26-28If you agree with that verse why dispute that Jesus authorizes this slaying here?
Hi BD:
The discussion relative to violence was in response to your trying to accuse Jesus of sin. And so, Babylon may have been violently overthrown, but this was an act of judgment by God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,I never said Jesus sinned, Can you show me such a comment?
Hi BD:Maybe, you did not say that specifically sinned but that is what I gathered that you were saying from the discussion with Karamie.
Since the following scripture was quoted pertaining to Jesus being a man, I thought that you were saying that he had sinned.
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
If I have misunderstood this, then I ask you to forgive me.
Romans 3:23 does not apply to Jesus because he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary and he was not born of the sperm of man. All men born of the sperm of man have sinned.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty, I do forgive you but I know you weren't actually accusing me as much as trying ascertain the point I was making and that point was that the scripture was not clear.When you say that a certain scripture does not apply it seems to me that at that point “you” are attempting to clarify a direct biblical statement, my whole point has been that the Quran is a clarifier.
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 06 2010,14:29) Quote (942767 @ May 06 2010,10:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 06 2010,05:59) Quote (942767 @ May 05 2010,11:49) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,14:18) Quote (karmarie @ May 03 2010,12:02) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 03 2010,10:35) Quote (karmarie @ May 03 2010,09:16) I cant believe I put that there. Anyways, when I used the words 'played the victim' I just found out that means something different than I thought, it should say 'was the victim…and felt sorry for myself” But thats all past and is things Id rather not talk about especially on an internet forum. Its just the questions you ask, saying theres no forgivness? Saying everyone has to have always been perfect, 1st John 1:10; If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Ecclesiastes; There is no man on earth of such righteousness that he does good and is free from sin all his days.
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
So are you perfect? Do you have a perfect past?
Jesus was a man.Ecclesiastes; There is no man on earth of such righteousness that he does good and is free from sin all his days
Did Jesus sin?
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Was Jesus born of a woman?
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Matthew 11:10-12Jesus said be perfect, are you Perfect?
You can't ask me the question because you said that you go exclusively by what Jesus said whereas I have said I get clarification from The Quran.
To you, Jesus was just a Man, to me he is more than just a man, who was his father? Was it a man? It was the Holy Spirit… so those verses you put dont fit.You said “did Jesus sin?”
He was a lamb without blemish..
If you go on to say he sinned by his display of anger at the money lenders of the temple, it was righteous anger. As was the harsh words spoken to the scribes, pharisees and like. Anger at the right things isnt wrong.
Ephesians 4: 26;.. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: . Neither give place to the devil.
Why do you continue to get parts from the bible to suit the Quran but ignore those which disagree with it? The Quran came much later than the Bible, than the teachings of our Lord and master Jesus, it was written by a man and like iv said- who was he to call Jesus a liar?
So you say the Holy Spirit is a MAN?If not why call the HOLY SPIRIT “Father” ?
Does righteous anger include:
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Luke 19:26-28If you agree with that verse why dispute that Jesus authorizes this slaying here?
Hi BD:
The discussion relative to violence was in response to your trying to accuse Jesus of sin. And so, Babylon may have been violently overthrown, but this was an act of judgment by God.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,I never said Jesus sinned, Can you show me such a comment?
Hi BD:Maybe, you did not say that specifically sinned but that is what I gathered that you were saying from the discussion with Karamie.
Since the following scripture was quoted pertaining to Jesus being a man, I thought that you were saying that he had sinned.
Romans 3:23; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
If I have misunderstood this, then I ask you to forgive me.
Romans 3:23 does not apply to Jesus because he was conceived of the Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary and he was not born of the sperm of man. All men born of the sperm of man have sinned.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty, I do forgive you but I know you weren't actually accusing me as much as trying ascertain the point I was making and that point was that the scripture was not clear.When you say that a certain scripture does not apply it seems to me that at that point “you” are attempting to clarify a direct biblical statement, my whole point has been that the Quran is a clarifier.
Hi BD:Yes, I am trying to clarify it for you because apparently you don't understand although we have been over and over this time and time again.
If you read the scripture that states that all men have sinned by itself without reading the scriptures that state that Jesus was conceived of the Holy Ghost, and that he was tempted in every way yet without sin, or that he obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross, then one could say well Jesus must have sinned since he was a man, but no, the bible is quite clear by itself without any help from the Quran. The Quran distorts the truth rather than clarifies it, and that is why you are confused about the identity of Jesus.
Anyway, thanks for forgiving me if I misunderstood. My desire is God's very best for you and your family.
Love in Christ,
MartyHi BD:
Even if you read Romans 3:23 in Context you may understand:
Quote 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Love in Christ,
MartyBod, If you think that your put downs and lies will shut me up, sorry think again…not a good tactic…though I need time out, I'll be back.
Take care.
Quote (942767 @ May 06 2010,15:14) Hi BD: Even if you read Romans 3:23 in Context you may understand:
Quote 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
Ezekiel 3:20-22What does this mean to you?
I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 5:31-33When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 2:16-18These scriptures show that Jesus sees a difference between those who are righteous and those who sin. He doesn't say that those are righteous need to repent so does that mean that the righteous don't sin?
Jesus said be perfect and God has called men perfect in the past such as Job:
There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
Job 1:1-3He was called perfect and upright several times and remember Job said in his arguments that he had not sinned and did not know why God was punishing him
but still:In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Job 1:21-22For Job hath said, I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.
Job 34:4-6now if you read Job you will learn why God said in the end:
And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
Job 42:6-8Do you yet understand that a righteous person can act without sin even though the same act of someone else doing the same thing it will be a sin?
All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1 John 5:16-18Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1 John 3:8-10We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.
1 John 5:17-19Ezekiel 33:15-17 (King James Version)
15If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
16None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
17Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
So we are talking about a way of living and not personal events because we know very well that the righteous have killed.
In the transfiguration we see Jesus standing among Moses and Elijah they were all in the same light of God.
Quote (karmarie @ May 06 2010,15:48) Bod, If you think that your put downs and lies will shut me up, sorry think again…not a good tactic…though I need time out, I'll be back. Take care.
I don't wish to put you down and I certainly am not lying but you have devised an evil plot to try to create problems where none exist. You know that there is one God and all Jews no that ALLAH is not some other God and the only ones who claim that there are other gods wish to cause mischief and mislead others, for a certainty there is ONLY ONE GOD.You confessed this before and now you have turned away from this simple truth:
Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth.
Ezekiel 33:11-13Quote (karmarie @ May 06 2010,15:48) Bod, If you think that your put downs and lies will shut me up, sorry think again…not a good tactic…though I need time out, I'll be back. Take care.
Christianity
Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths, including Christians and Jews, use the word “Allah” to mean “God”.[3] The Christian Arabs of today have no other word for 'God' than 'Allah'.[6] (Even the Arabic-descended Maltese language of Malta, whose population is almost entirely Roman Catholic, uses Alla for 'God'.) Arab Christians for example use terms Allāh al-ʼab (الله الأب) meaning God the Father, Allāh al-ibn (الله الابن) mean God the Son, and Allāh al-rūḥ al-quds (الله الروح القدس) meaning God the Holy Spirit (See God in Christianity for the Christian concept of God).Arab Christians have used two forms of invocations that were affixed to the beginning of their written works. They adopted the Muslim basm-Allah, and also created their own Trinitized basm-Allah as early as the eight century CE.[25] The Muslim basm-Allah reads: “In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful.” The Trinitized basm-Allah reads: “In the name of Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, One God.” The Syriac, Latin and Greek invocations do not have the words “One God” at the end. This addition was made to emphasize the monotheistic aspect of Trinitian belief and also to make it more palatable to Muslims.[25]
According to Marshall Hodgson, it seems that in the pre-Islamic times, some Arab Christians made pilgrimage to the Kaaba, a pagan temple at that time, honoring Allah there as God the Creator.[26]
Hi BD:
You keep posting scriptures out of context, and therefore, you are misunderstanding what is being said:
Here are the scriptures from Ezekiel 3 in context:
Quote Ezekiel 3:17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
My commission from the Lord is to go into the world and preach the gospel to every creature, and by this I giving the wicked good news saying to them that God has made a way for them to be reconciled to Himself through His Son and His Christ, but also warning them of the impending day of judgment. Someone in covenant with God is considered righteous because he is obeying the commandments of God, but even in this state a man does man mistakes, and so in the OT they were to repent when they knew they had sinned, and offer the blood of an animal to atone for their sin. The difference is that the righteous do not practice sin willfully. But if they are in covenant with God, and then they go back to practicing sin willfully the judgment for this will be greater than for someone who never knew God. It is also my responsibility if I see a brother in Christ committing sin to warn him about this.
Under the New Covenant, we who are in the body of Christ are considered righteous or in right standing with God. We are obeying the commandments that have come from God through the Lord Jesus, but when we make a mistake, and we do make them, we repent and the blood of the Lord Jesus washes away our sin and keeps us in right standing with God.
You ask:
Quote What does this mean to you? I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 5:31-33When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 2:16-18These scriptures show that Jesus sees a difference between those who are righteous and those who sin. He doesn't say that those are righteous need to repent so does that mean that the righteous don't sin?
The Pharisees thought they were self-righteous through their religion. Perhaps the following scriptures will give you he understanding of what Jesus was indicating by saying that he did come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance:
Quote Luke 18:9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
All else that was said by the scriptures that quoted about Job or any one of us that is considered righteous can simply be answered by saying that those who are in right standing with God through His covenants do not practice sin willfully, and so, when they make a mistake they repent, and in the Old Testament the blood of the animal sacrifice atoned for their sin, and in the New Covenant the blood of Jesus washes away the sin once and for all.
Quote 1 John 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Jesus is God's gift to humanity through whom God has forgiven all sin for those who were in covenant from creation until the Ministry of Jesus, and for all who are reconciled to God through him from the time of his ministry until he comes for the church. The blood that he shed is the propitiation for the sins of all of humanity.
Jesus did not sin.
Quote [QUOTE]Hebrews 4:15 (King James Version) 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
And so, even if someone in the OT was considered righteous because he was obeying God, God had forseen that a point in time He would bring forth His Son who would offer himself to God to be the propitiation for the sins of all who have been or would be in covenant with Him.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 07 2010,10:05) Hi BD: You keep posting scriptures out of context, and therefore, you are misunderstanding what is being said:
Here are the scriptures from Ezekiel 3 in context:
Quote Ezekiel 3:17Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me. 18When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
21Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.
My commission from the Lord is to go into the world and preach the gospel to every creature, and by this I giving the wicked good news saying to them that God has made a way for them to be reconciled to Himself through His Son and His Christ, but also warning them of the impending day of judgment. Someone in covenant with God is considered righteous because he is obeying the commandments of God, but even in this state a man does man mistakes, and so in the OT they were to repent when they knew they had sinned, and offer the blood of an animal to atone for their sin. The difference is that the righteous do not practice sin willfully. But if they are in covenant with God, and then they go back to practicing sin willfully the judgment for this will be greater than for someone who never knew God. It is also my responsibility if I see a brother in Christ committing sin to warn him about this.
Under the New Covenant, we who are in the body of Christ are considered righteous or in right standing with God. We are obeying the commandments that have come from God through the Lord Jesus, but when we make a mistake, and we do make them, we repent and the blood of the Lord Jesus washes away our sin and keeps us in right standing with God.
You ask:
Quote What does this mean to you? I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luke 5:31-33When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 2:16-18These scriptures show that Jesus sees a difference between those who are righteous and those who sin. He doesn't say that those are righteous need to repent so does that mean that the righteous don't sin?
The Pharisees thought they were self-righteous through their religion. Perhaps the following scriptures will give you he understanding of what Jesus was indicating by saying that he did come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance:
Quote Luke 18:9And he spake this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
13And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
All else that was said by the scriptures that quoted about Job or any one of us that is considered righteous can simply be answered by saying that those who are in right standing with God through His covenants do not practice sin willfully, and so, when they make a mistake they repent, and in the Old Testament the blood of the animal sacrifice atoned for their sin, and in the New Covenant the blood of Jesus washes away the sin once and for all.
Quote 1 John 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: 7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Jesus is God's gift to humanity through whom God has forgiven all sin for those who were in covenant from creation until the Ministry of Jesus, and for all who are reconciled to God through him from the time of his ministry until he comes for the church. The blood that he shed is the propitiation for the sins of all of humanity.
Jesus did not sin.
Quote [QUOTE]Hebrews 4:15 (King James Version) 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
And so, even if someone in the OT was considered righteous because he was obeying God, God had forseen that a point in time He would bring forth His Son who would offer himself to God to be the propitiation for the sins of all who have been or would be in covenant with Him.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Was Jesus murdered?You ask:
Quote Was Jesus murdered? Jesus obeyed God without sin in spite of what man could do to him. He was accused of blasphemy by the Pharisees and delivered to the Roman authorities to be judged, and they crucified him.
Man has the power to kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul. God allowed this so that even the most wicked, those who delivered him up to be crucified, and those who actually crucified him could be reconciled to Himself, coming to him with a repentant heart through faith in what He has done for us in the person of His Son and Christ.
In fact here are some scriptures which show that some of those who delivered him up to be crucified were saved:
Quote Acts 2:22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 07 2010,11:10) You ask: Quote Was Jesus murdered? Jesus obeyed God without sin in spite of what man could do to him. He was accused of blasphemy by the Pharisees and delivered to the Roman authorities to be judged, and they crucified him.
Man has the power to kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul. God allowed this so that even the most wicked, those who delivered him up to be crucified, and those who actually crucified him could be reconciled to Himself, coming to him with a repentant heart through faith in what He has done for us in the person of His Son and Christ.
In fact here are some scriptures which show that some of those who delivered him up to be crucified were saved:
Quote Acts 2:22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Love in Christ,
Marty
So aren't the murderers responsible for your salvation? You believe had they not killed Christ you would be hell bound, is that right?Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,11:17) Quote (942767 @ May 07 2010,11:10) You ask: Quote Was Jesus murdered? Jesus obeyed God without sin in spite of what man could do to him. He was accused of blasphemy by the Pharisees and delivered to the Roman authorities to be judged, and they crucified him.
Man has the power to kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul. God allowed this so that even the most wicked, those who delivered him up to be crucified, and those who actually crucified him could be reconciled to Himself, coming to him with a repentant heart through faith in what He has done for us in the person of His Son and Christ.
In fact here are some scriptures which show that some of those who delivered him up to be crucified were saved:
Quote Acts 2:22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Love in Christ,
Marty
So aren't the murderers responsible for your salvation? You believe had they not killed Christ you would be hell bound, is that right?
No, murderers are not responsible for my salvation. Jesus who obeyed God without sinning in spite of what murderers did to him is responsible for my salvation.All of us had a role in crucifying Jesus in that all of us have sinned.
Quote Isaiah 53 1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 07 2010,11:33) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,11:17) Quote (942767 @ May 07 2010,11:10) You ask: Quote Was Jesus murdered? Jesus obeyed God without sin in spite of what man could do to him. He was accused of blasphemy by the Pharisees and delivered to the Roman authorities to be judged, and they crucified him.
Man has the power to kill the body, but they cannot kill the soul. God allowed this so that even the most wicked, those who delivered him up to be crucified, and those who actually crucified him could be reconciled to Himself, coming to him with a repentant heart through faith in what He has done for us in the person of His Son and Christ.
In fact here are some scriptures which show that some of those who delivered him up to be crucified were saved:
Quote Acts 2:22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
Love in Christ,
Marty
So aren't the murderers responsible for your salvation? You believe had they not killed Christ you would be hell bound, is that right?
No, murderers are not responsible for my salvation. Jesus who obeyed God without sinning in spite of what murderers did to him is responsible for my salvation.All of us had a role in crucifying Jesus in that all of us have sinned.
Quote Isaiah 53 1Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Love in Christ,
Marty
So you would have killed Jesus to save yourself?Hi BD:
You say:
Quote So you would have killed Jesus to save yourself? Enough of your foolish questions. Of course, I would not have killed Jesus to save myself.
Quote 1 Corinthians 2 1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 07 2010,11:42) Hi BD: You say:
Quote So you would have killed Jesus to save yourself? Enough of your foolish questions. Of course, I would not have killed Jesus to save myself.
Quote 1 Corinthians 2 1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Are you glad that he was killed on your behalf?Without his death, were you bound for hell?
Would you still be willing to go to hell if it could undo the death of Christ?
Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,11:44) Quote (942767 @ May 07 2010,11:42) Hi BD: You say:
Quote So you would have killed Jesus to save yourself? Enough of your foolish questions. Of course, I would not have killed Jesus to save myself.
Quote 1 Corinthians 2 1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Are you glad that he was killed on your behalf?Without his death, were you bound for hell?
Would you still be willing to go to hell if it could undo the death of Christ?
Hi BD:I am glad that he obeyed God without sin even unto the death on the cross. Jesus obeyed God and did this for you and me to show us just how much he loved us.
Apparently, there was not other way for man to be redeemed. Of course, I am sorry that he had to suffer the way that he did, but this was God's plan for the redemption of mankind.
And so, your questions to me are foolish ones. This was God's plan, and the only way that evil men could be overcome. They have the power to threaten you with death in order to make you do what they want you to do, but man can kill the body, but he cannot kill the soul. Jesus is alive, and be cause he live I will also live with him as I learn also to obey God in spite of what man can do to me.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ May 07 2010,12:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ May 07 2010,11:44) Quote (942767 @ May 07 2010,11:42) Hi BD: You say:
Quote So you would have killed Jesus to save yourself? Enough of your foolish questions. Of course, I would not have killed Jesus to save myself.
Quote 1 Corinthians 2 1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Are you glad that he was killed on your behalf?Without his death, were you bound for hell?
Would you still be willing to go to hell if it could undo the death of Christ?
Hi BD:I am glad that he obeyed God without sin even unto the death on the cross. Jesus obeyed God and did this for you and me to show us just how much he loved us.
Apparently, there was not other way for man to be redeemed. Of course, I am sorry that he had to suffer the way that he did, but this was God's plan for the redemption of mankind.
And so, your questions to me are foolish ones. This was God's plan, and the only way that evil men could be overcome. They have the power to threaten you with death in order to make you do what they want you to do, but man can kill the body, but he cannot kill the soul. Jesus is alive, and be cause he live I will also live with him as I learn also to obey God in spite of what man can do to me.
Love in Christ,
Marty
Heb 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.How is it that Jesus forgave sins before his blood was shed? Doesn't that prove that shedding his blood was not necessary?
And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
Luke 5:19-21
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