The Trinity Doctrine

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43)

Quote (942767 @ April 21 2010,05:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 20 2010,14:33) What does “Son of God” mean in the first place?  No legitimate Christian sect suggests that God took a wife and had a child, and most certainly none conceive that God fathered a child through a human mother outside of marriage.  Furthermore, to suggest that God physically mated with an element of His creation is so far beyond the limits of religious tolerance as to plummet down the sheer cliff of blasphemy, chasing the mythology of the Greeks. With no rational explanation available within the tenets of Christian doctrine, the only avenue for closure is to claim yet one more doctrinal mystery.  Here is where the Muslim recalls the question posed in the Quran: “…How can He have a son when He has no consort?…” (Quran 6:101) Hi BD: Do Muslims believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary? Love in Christ, Marty Yes! Here is the account: Surah 3 45 Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.   46 “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”   47 She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” He said: “Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!   48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,   49 “And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): “'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;   50 “'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.   51 “'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'”

Hi BD:

And so, Jesus is the Christ, and is the son of Mary.

So, then does Jesus have a Father?

Love in Christ,
Marty

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,06:37)

Quote (karmarie @ April 20 2010,23:46) I cant answer you. Whatever I try to say wont matter. Cause your Quran says something different? “…How can He have a son when He has no consort?…” (Quran 6:101) Why is it you have no answer for that?

Iv already answered – more than once.

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43)

Here is the account: Surah 3 48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,

Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye(BD) are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal.1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel
              unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

2Cor.11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit(satan),
which ye have not received, or ('book of fraud'=114) another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
2Cor.11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
And no marvel; for Satan himself (disguised as Gabriel) is transformed into an angel of light.
Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers (BD and the like) also be transformed
as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
.

[NickHassan]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,04:37)

Quote (karmarie @ April 20 2010,23:46) I cant answer you. Whatever I try to say wont matter. Cause your Quran says something different? “…How can He have a son when He has no consort?…” (Quran 6:101) Why is it you have no answer for that?

Hi BD,
Is your god of flesh?
Our God is spirit.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ April 21 2010,08:50)

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43) Quote (942767 @ April 21 2010,05:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 20 2010,14:33) What does “Son of God” mean in the first place?  No legitimate Christian sect suggests that God took a wife and had a child, and most certainly none conceive that God fathered a child through a human mother outside of marriage.  Furthermore, to suggest that God physically mated with an element of His creation is so far beyond the limits of religious tolerance as to plummet down the sheer cliff of blasphemy, chasing the mythology of the Greeks. With no rational explanation available within the tenets of Christian doctrine, the only avenue for closure is to claim yet one more doctrinal mystery.  Here is where the Muslim recalls the question posed in the Quran: “…How can He have a son when He has no consort?…” (Quran 6:101) Hi BD: Do Muslims believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary? Love in Christ, Marty Yes! Here is the account: Surah 3 45 Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.   46 “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”   47 She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” He said: “Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!   48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,   49 “And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): “'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;   50 “'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.   51 “'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'” Hi BD: And so, Jesus is the Christ, and is the son of Mary. So, then does Jesus have a Father? Love in Christ, Marty

In the same way that Adam has a Father.

God created Man in His image and God created Jesus in His image.

Mary was a Virgin just as the earth was Virgin having no man formed out of it before.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ April 21 2010,14:37)

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43) Here is the account: Surah 3 48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,   Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye(BD) are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal.1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel               unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2Cor.11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit(satan), which ye have not received, or ('book of fraud'=114) another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2Cor.11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself (disguised as Gabriel) is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers (BD and the like) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. .

How do you determine when Satan is disguising himself as Gabriel or other angels? Is it only when you disagree with the message?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 21 2010,15:07)

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,04:37) Quote (karmarie @ April 20 2010,23:46) I cant answer you. Whatever I try to say wont matter. Cause your Quran says something different? “…How can He have a son when He has no consort?…” (Quran 6:101) Why is it you have no answer for that? Hi BD, Is your god of flesh? Our God is spirit.

I hope that wasn't your answer.

If God is Spirit then each kind according to its own kind:

Jesus was Flesh and Blood

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,15:52)

Quote (Ed J @ April 21 2010,14:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43) Here is the account: Surah 3 48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,   Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye(BD) are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal.1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel               unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2Cor.11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit(satan), which ye have not received, or ('book of fraud'=114) another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2Cor.11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself (disguised as Gabriel) is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers (BD and the like) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. . How do you determine when Satan is disguising himself as Gabriel or other angels? Is it only when you disagree with the message?

You can't really possibly believe this?
.

[karmarie]

Bod,

“…it is obvious that one must choose between the 1600 year record of God to mankind through all of the prophets, apostles and legions of witnesses,
or the 23 year record of a single 7th century illiterate that was, and taught, the exact opposite of Jesus Christ, and the prophesied new covenant we are given through His shed blood.
Either Mohammed was a false prophet, or all of the prophets, apostles and Jesus Christ were false prophets, and the whole subject of the New Testament false…”

(cant find the source for where I got that.. somewhere amongst all of this:
take a look at some of these places they have your answers:
http://www.answering-islam.org/L_c-on-i.html

Islam says the Bible was corrupted, but did you know that (apparently) this is not mentioned at all in the Quran. Isnt it strange that such a big thing wasnt revealed with everything else?
Wouldnt it seem more likely that when Muslim Apologists discovered that the Quran didnt fit the Bible..one had to be wrong!

Is the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Quran the same?
Though they do have similarities it seems that they are not the same:

Son of God    Not Son of God
Born in a Manger  Born under a Palm tree
Died on the Cross   Didnt die on the Cross
Returns as King and Lord for ever  Will return, marry, die, and be buried.

Thats 2 different Jesus's. Which is the true one?

Galatians 1:6-9
“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel– which is really no gospel at all.
Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned”….

We are warned so why do you follow?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ April 21 2010,16:09)

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,15:52) Quote (Ed J @ April 21 2010,14:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43) Here is the account: Surah 3 48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,   Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye(BD) are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal.1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel               unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2Cor.11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit(satan), which ye have not received, or ('book of fraud'=114) another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2Cor.11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself (disguised as Gabriel) is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers (BD and the like) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. . How do you determine when Satan is disguising himself as Gabriel or other angels? Is it only when you disagree with the message? You can't really possibly believe this? .

Isn't that how you decide? You simply disagree and that's proof to you, otherwise how do you determine?

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ April 21 2010,23:49)

Bod, “…it is obvious that one must choose between the 1600 year record of God to mankind through all of the prophets, apostles and legions of witnesses, or the 23 year record of a single 7th century illiterate that was, and taught, the exact opposite of Jesus Christ, and the prophesied new covenant we are given through His shed blood. Either Mohammed was a false prophet, or all of the prophets, apostles and Jesus Christ were false prophets, and the whole subject of the New Testament false…” (cant find the source for where I got that.. somewhere amongst all of this: take a look at some of these places they have your answers: http://www.answering-islam.org/L_c-on-i.html Islam says the Bible was corrupted, but did you know that (apparently) this is not mentioned at all in the Quran. Isnt it strange that such a big thing wasnt revealed with everything else? Wouldnt it seem more likely that when Muslim Apologists discovered that the Quran didnt fit the Bible..one had to be wrong! Is the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Quran the same? Though they do have similarities it seems that they are not the same: Son of God    Not Son of God Born in a Manger  Born under a Palm tree Died on the Cross   Didnt die on the Cross Returns as King and Lord for ever  Will return, marry, die, and be buried. Thats 2 different Jesus's. Which is the true one? Galatians 1:6-9 “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel– which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned”…. We are warned so why do you follow?

Quote

“…it is obvious that one must choose between the 1600 year record of God to mankind through all of the prophets, apostles and legions of witnesses, or the 23 year record of a single 7th century illiterate that was, and taught, the exact opposite of Jesus Christ, and the prophesied new covenant we are given through His shed blood. Either Mohammed was a false prophet, or all of the prophets, apostles and Jesus Christ were false prophets, and the whole subject of the New Testament false…”

This is bar none probably the most ignorant statement I have read on the entire forum and I'm glad you didn't come up with it yourself although you appear to condone it.

How is it that a person can arbitrarily abrogate the record of God and not include Muhammad as part of that record simply because it is not part of an assembled collection of writings, a collection called the Bible that Jews don't even accept at all.

So Jews would disagree with the statement and therefore it shows narrow mindedness in the Christian View. Jesus the same thing that ALL prphets have taught including Muhammad i.e. All praise is due to God. Anyone who says otherwise is misinforming people.

To persecute a people for worshiping God, praying unceasingly on their knees, giving charity, placing no one equal to God and giving God His FULL due, to persecute and call false a people like that is EVIL and Blasphemous.

The Praise of God should be in Churches, Mosques, Synagogues, Temples and the like.

(They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, “our Lord is Allah.. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).
( سورة الحج , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #40)

Quote

Islam says the Bible was corrupted, but did you know that (apparently) this is not mentioned at all in the Quran. Isnt it strange that such a big thing wasnt revealed with everything else?

You are incorrect the Bible itself talks about the scribes corrupting it:

How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain.
Jeremiah 8:7-9

Because they have committed villany in Israel, and have committed adultery with their neighbours' wives, and have spoken lying words in my name, which I have not commanded them; even I know, and am a witness, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 29:22-24

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, “That is from Allah,” but it is not from Allah. It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it!
( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #78)

I guess you have your information wrong again, that's why you shoud read the Quran so you can speak with knowledge.

The problem seems to be you do not know what the Gospel is you don't understand that Jesus taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as in the Quran but Paul taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ is an introduction to The Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven. Paul didn't want the Jews to place burdens on the people who were coming to Christianity and that is what is meant in the scriptures about teaching another gospel. Remember, Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel and said to his disciples do not go to the gentiles:

But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Matthew 15:23-25

Matthew 10:5-7 (King James Version)

5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

So Paul was teaching what was given to him but it was a different gospel to different people.

[942767]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,15:51)

Quote (942767 @ April 21 2010,08:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43) Quote (942767 @ April 21 2010,05:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 20 2010,14:33) What does “Son of God” mean in the first place?  No legitimate Christian sect suggests that God took a wife and had a child, and most certainly none conceive that God fathered a child through a human mother outside of marriage.  Furthermore, to suggest that God physically mated with an element of His creation is so far beyond the limits of religious tolerance as to plummet down the sheer cliff of blasphemy, chasing the mythology of the Greeks. With no rational explanation available within the tenets of Christian doctrine, the only avenue for closure is to claim yet one more doctrinal mystery.  Here is where the Muslim recalls the question posed in the Quran: “…How can He have a son when He has no consort?…” (Quran 6:101) Hi BD: Do Muslims believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary? Love in Christ, Marty Yes! Here is the account: Surah 3 45 Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.   46 “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”   47 She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” He said: “Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!   48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,   49 “And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): “'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;   50 “'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.   51 “'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'” Hi BD: And so, Jesus is the Christ, and is the son of Mary. So, then does Jesus have a Father? Love in Christ, Marty In the same way that Adam has a Father. God created Man in His image and God created Jesus in His image. Mary was a Virgin just as the earth was Virgin having no man formed out of it before.

Hi BD:

Adam was created by God out of the dust of the ground, whereas Jesus as you have agreed was born (not created) from a woman who was a vrigin, and so, who is Jesus' Father?

Please do not evade the question. Thank you.

Love in Christ,
Marty

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 22 2010,07:09)

How is it that a person can arbitrarily abrogate the record of God and not include Muhammad as part of that record simply because it is not part of an assembled collection of writings, a collection called the Bible that Jews don't even accept at all.

The reason is because Mohammad taught a different Jesus.

Quote

To persecute a people for worshiping God, praying unceasingly on their knees, giving charity, placing no one equal to God and giving God His FULL due, to persecute and call false a people like that is EVIL and Blasphemous

Persecuting? I feel a need to lead people to the truth. I can see the good in Muslims and want them to see what is the truth.

Quote

There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, “That is from Allah,” but it is not from Allah. It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it! ( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #78) I guess you have your information wrong again, that's why you shoud read the Quran so you can speak with knowledge.

Bod, it said distort the Book (which book?) with their tongues (what they say), it says nothing about the Bible being corrupted.

I dont want to read the Quran.

I will reply to the other half of your post later cause im out of time (about Paul) ok?

[Ed J]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 22 2010,04:32)

Quote (Ed J @ April 21 2010,16:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,15:52) Quote (Ed J @ April 21 2010,14:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43) Here is the account: Surah 3 48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,   Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye(BD) are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal.1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel               unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2Cor.11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit(satan), which ye have not received, or ('book of fraud'=114) another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2Cor.11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself (disguised as Gabriel) is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers (BD and the like) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. . How do you determine when Satan is disguising himself as Gabriel or other angels? Is it only when you disagree with the message? You can't really possibly believe this? . Isn't that how you decide? You simply disagree and that's proof to you, otherwise how do you determine?

1Thess.5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
.

[karmarie]

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 22 2010,07:09)

The problem seems to be you do not know what the Gospel is you don't understand that Jesus taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as in the Quran but Paul taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is an introduction to The Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven. Paul didn't want the Jews to place burdens on the people who were coming to Christianity and that is what is meant in the scriptures about teaching another gospel. Remember, Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel and said to his disciples do not go to the gentiles: But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:23-25 Matthew 10:5-7 (King James Version) 5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. So Paul was teaching what was given to him but it was a different gospel to different people.

Bod, thats why Paul was sent to the rest of the world.

“For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

“And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations; and then shall the end come.”

How was this achieved?

“After this I beheld, and, see, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;”

“And they sung a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;”

Paul had a really important part to play. He was doing the will of The Son and of God.

[bodhitharta]

Quote (942767 @ April 22 2010,09:55)

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,15:51) Quote (942767 @ April 21 2010,08:50) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43) Quote (942767 @ April 21 2010,05:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 20 2010,14:33) What does “Son of God” mean in the first place?  No legitimate Christian sect suggests that God took a wife and had a child, and most certainly none conceive that God fathered a child through a human mother outside of marriage.  Furthermore, to suggest that God physically mated with an element of His creation is so far beyond the limits of religious tolerance as to plummet down the sheer cliff of blasphemy, chasing the mythology of the Greeks. With no rational explanation available within the tenets of Christian doctrine, the only avenue for closure is to claim yet one more doctrinal mystery.  Here is where the Muslim recalls the question posed in the Quran: “…How can He have a son when He has no consort?…” (Quran 6:101) Hi BD: Do Muslims believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary? Love in Christ, Marty Yes! Here is the account: Surah 3 45 Behold! the angels said: “O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.   46 “He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous.”   47 She said: “O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?” He said: “Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!   48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,   49 “And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): “'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;   50 “'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.   51 “'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'” Hi BD: And so, Jesus is the Christ, and is the son of Mary. So, then does Jesus have a Father? Love in Christ, Marty In the same way that Adam has a Father. God created Man in His image and God created Jesus in His image. Mary was a Virgin just as the earth was Virgin having no man formed out of it before. Hi BD: Adam was created by God out of the dust of the ground, whereas  Jesus as you have agreed was born (not created) from a woman who was a vrigin, and so, who is Jesus' Father? Please do not evade the question.  Thank you. Love in Christ, Marty

Jesus was born through Mary as a creation by God just as Eve was created through Adam.

I hope you appreciate the comparison.

Now would you say that God fathered Eve with Adam?

Love in Christ
Asana Bodhitharta

[bodhitharta]

Quote (karmarie @ April 22 2010,11:40)

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 22 2010,07:09) How is it that a person can arbitrarily abrogate the record of God and not include Muhammad as part of that record simply because it is not part of an assembled collection of writings, a collection called the Bible that Jews don't even accept at all. The reason is because Mohammad taught a different Jesus. Quote To persecute a people for worshiping God, praying unceasingly on their knees, giving charity, placing no one equal to God and giving God His FULL due, to persecute and call false a people like that is EVIL and Blasphemous Persecuting? I feel a need to lead people to the truth. I can see the good in Muslims and want them to see what is the truth. Quote There is among them a section who distort the Book with their tongues: (As they read) you would think it is a part of the Book, but it is no part of the Book; and they say, “That is from Allah,” but it is not from Allah. It is they who tell a lie against Allah, and (well) they know it! ( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #78) I guess you have your information wrong again, that's why you shoud read the Quran so you can speak with knowledge. Bod, it said distort the Book (which book?) with their tongues (what they say), it says nothing about the Bible being corrupted. I dont want to read the Quran. I will reply to the other half of your post later cause im out of time (about Paul) ok?

You don't want to believe so you won't

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ April 22 2010,14:18)

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 22 2010,04:32) Quote (Ed J @ April 21 2010,16:09) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,15:52) Quote (Ed J @ April 21 2010,14:37) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 21 2010,08:43) Here is the account: Surah 3 48 “And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,   Gal.1:6 I marvel that ye(BD) are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Gal.1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel               unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 2Cor.11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit(satan), which ye have not received, or ('book of fraud'=114) another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2Cor.11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself (disguised as Gabriel) is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers (BD and the like) also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. . How do you determine when Satan is disguising himself as Gabriel or other angels? Is it only when you disagree with the message? You can't really possibly believe this? . Isn't that how you decide? You simply disagree and that's proof to you, otherwise how do you determine? 1Thess.5:21: Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. .

Now, simply follow the advice. Will you?

[Ed J]

Quote (karmarie @ April 22 2010,15:18)

Quote (bodhitharta @ April 22 2010,07:09) The problem seems to be you do not know what the Gospel is you don't understand that Jesus taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as in the Quran but Paul taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is an introduction to The Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven. Paul didn't want the Jews to place burdens on the people who were coming to Christianity and that is what is meant in the scriptures about teaching another gospel. Remember, Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel and said to his disciples do not go to the gentiles: But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:23-25 Matthew 10:5-7 (King James Version) 5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. So Paul was teaching what was given to him but it was a different gospel to different people. Bod, thats why Paul was sent to the rest of the world. “For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations; and then shall the end come.” How was this achieved? “After this I beheld, and, see, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;” “And they sung a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;” Paul had a really important part to play. He was doing the will of The Son and of God.

Hi Karmarie,

I believe you are looking for this verse…

Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou(יהשוע) shouldest be my(יהוה)
servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel:
I(117=יהוה האלהים) will also give thee(יהשוע) for a light to the Gentiles,
that thou(Jesus) mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

But it doesn't matter how many bible verses you, me or anyone else produces because BD's philosophy is…
    'don't bother me with the facts, because I(Asana Bodhitharta) have already made up my mind'.

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[bodhitharta]

Quote (Ed J @ April 22 2010,16:54)

Quote (karmarie @ April 22 2010,15:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 22 2010,07:09) The problem seems to be you do not know what the Gospel is you don't understand that Jesus taught the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven as in the Quran but Paul taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is an introduction to The Gospel of The Kingdom of Heaven. Paul didn't want the Jews to place burdens on the people who were coming to Christianity and that is what is meant in the scriptures about teaching another gospel. Remember, Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel and said to his disciples do not go to the gentiles: But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:23-25 Matthew 10:5-7 (King James Version) 5These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: 6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. So Paul was teaching what was given to him but it was a different gospel to different people. Bod, thats why Paul was sent to the rest of the world. “For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness to all nations; and then shall the end come.” How was this achieved? “After this I beheld, and, see, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;” “And they sung a new song, saying, You are worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for you were slain, and have redeemed us to God by your blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;” Paul had a really important part to play. He was doing the will of The Son and of God. Hi Karmarie, I believe you are looking for this verse… Isaiah 49:6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou(יהשוע) shouldest be my(יהוה) servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I(117=יהוה האלהים) will also give thee(יהשוע) for a light to the Gentiles, that thou(Jesus) mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. But it doesn't matter how many bible verses you, me or anyone else produces because BD's philosophy is…     'don't bother me with the facts, because I(Asana Bodhitharta) have already made up my mind'. God bless Ed J http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

ED,

Study before you speak

Acts 13:46-48 (King James Version)

46Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

47For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
John 4:21-23

Do you worship the One and Only God as The Jews and Muslims do? You seem to worship the creation of God instead of being obedient to His Messiah

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