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Quote (Ed J @ April 03 2010,07:05) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2010,05:27) Quote (Ed J @ April 02 2010,14:04) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 02 2010,05:21) Quote (Ed J @ April 01 2010,18:33) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 01 2010,17:07) Quote (Ed J @ April 01 2010,14:46) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 01 2010,10:29) Quote (karmarie @ Mar. 31 2010,22:32) Stuart and Tim, Abraham was tested by God and asked to sacrifice His own Son to prove His faith and love of God
God stopped Him before He did.
This was How God KNEW Abraham Had great Love and Faith even to give up His Son who He loved to show itBut then,
” God SO LOVED THE WHOLE WORLD that HE gave His only Son.”
He showed His own Faith and love for ALL OF US through this. His own Son was killed instead.And His own Son went down to the dead and brought them back -with Him.
Gods ways are higher than ours.
God is love.
God did not offer up HIS son for Sacrifice NOR DID HE THINK IT:
Hi BD,Do you think God to be a 'liar'?
Gen.2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat
of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Rom.8:32: He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us
all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?Ed J
Gen.2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat
of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.Did anyone die the day they ate the fruit? No, they did not but instead God forgave them.
Can you show me a single scripture that says that Adam and Eve died the day they ate the fruit?
Hi BD,I'm glad you decided to continue our “Bible Study”!
YHVH=63 is NOT a liar, you just DON'T understand “The Bible”=63!.
Gen.5:27: And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine (969) years: and he died. (2Peter 3:8)
2Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the
Lord as a thousand (1,000) years, and a thousand years as one day.Here is what “YHVH”=63 said…
Gen.2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:
for in the day=63 that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.You BD, have eaten from 'the tree of knowledge of Good and evil'!
Gen.3:22: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man (BD) is become as one of us, to know Good and evil=67: ('the allah'=67)
and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: (Matt.16:25-26)
Do you now understand why Christ (John 3:16) had to die my wayward Brother? (FOR YOUR SIN!)God bless you BD.
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgThe Quran reveals the actual event in its clarity:
Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #37)
Hi BD,How does that add 'any' clarity to what we are discussing?
You are really 'stuck' on the 'book of fraud'=114 aren't you?Ed J
Keep the faith =114History=114
Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.
( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #37)You believe that God did not forgive Adam and Eve. You know that God did not kill Adam and Eve
Hi BD,John 14:30: Hereafter I(Jesus) will not talk much with you: for the
prince (John 16:11) of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.The AKJV bible was completed and in the public's hands in 1611.
The AKJV bible is going to bring about satan's final defeat!Ed J
James 1:16 (King James Version)16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 04 2010,11:11) Quote (karmarie @ April 03 2010,10:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2010,07:51) Quote (karmarie @ April 02 2010,14:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 02 2010,15:17) [quote=bodhitharta,April 02 2010,09:06] I believe that God SAVED HIS SON. You believe that God sacrficed HIS own son?
Do you believe God was not Merciful and kind towards HIS son?
DO you REALLY believe that GOD NEEDED to KILL or HAVE KILLED HIS OWN SON to simply forgive the repented person?
Bod, we cant understand all the things of God!The Life is in the Blood
We dont have to understand it but just believe.You find it hard to understand that but have no problem with things like this?:
“Thus, All this. But indeed for the oppressors will be an evil place of final return. It is Hellfire – they will burn therein, and how evil is that bed, Thus, then will they taste it – a boiling fluid and a filthy fluid of pus and blood and other penalties of a similar kind to match them.” [Sad, 38: 55-58]
“In front of him is Hell, and he is given pus to drink. He will gulp it but will hardly be able to swallow it, and death will come to him from every place, yet, he will not die. And in front of him will be a heavy punishment.” [Ibrahim, 14: 16-17]
“These two opponents dispute with each other about their Lord. But those who disbelieve will have garments of fire cut out for them. Over their heads will be poured boiling water.”
[al Hajj, 22: 19]The Messenger of Allah said: “Of the inmates of the Fire, the one with the easiest punishment will be Abu Talib; he will be wearing a pair of shoes which will cause his brain to boil.” [Sahih al-Bukhari]
“Those who have disbelieved in Our signs – We will burn them in fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We will exchange them for other skins so that they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” [Surah an-Nisa, 4: 56]
Compared with this:
1st John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
We love because he first loved us.
Or compared to this:But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 8:11-13And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41-43And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:49-51There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Luke 13:27-29Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:43-45Seems to me Jesus agrees with the Quran. Can you even provide one single verse attributed to Jesus that denies the vivid reality of Hell?
Just One?
Hi Bod.Weeping= sobbing in deep regret and sadness
Knashing of teeth= frustration and regret.
Outer darkness= away from the Love of God!
The word 'eternal' (punishment) was translated from the word Aion which means Age or Time prescribed. After this is the Second Death (Death meaning death)
The Bible translation is a treatment of the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion. These two words have similar meaning, and Young's Literal Translation renders them and their derivatives as “age” or “age-during”.Alot different than the Quran dont you think:)
Karmarie,How then do you reinterpret Jesus saying:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:43-45
Hi Bod.God is a consuming fire.
“Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.” Hebrews 12:28-29
“He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi… that they may offer to the Lord an offering in righteousness.” Malachi 3:3
Worm that dieth not: Theres lots of sites about that, this is the first I found I hope its ok, im rushing sorry.
http://www.helltruth.com/q-a/their-worm-dieth-not.aspx
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.(Matthew 10:28)
“Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.”(Rev 20:14)
Quote (karmarie @ April 04 2010,11:18) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 04 2010,11:11) Quote (karmarie @ April 03 2010,10:48) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 03 2010,07:51) Quote (karmarie @ April 02 2010,14:40) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 02 2010,15:17) [quote=bodhitharta,April 02 2010,09:06] I believe that God SAVED HIS SON. You believe that God sacrficed HIS own son?
Do you believe God was not Merciful and kind towards HIS son?
DO you REALLY believe that GOD NEEDED to KILL or HAVE KILLED HIS OWN SON to simply forgive the repented person?
Bod, we cant understand all the things of God!The Life is in the Blood
We dont have to understand it but just believe.You find it hard to understand that but have no problem with things like this?:
“Thus, All this. But indeed for the oppressors will be an evil place of final return. It is Hellfire – they will burn therein, and how evil is that bed, Thus, then will they taste it – a boiling fluid and a filthy fluid of pus and blood and other penalties of a similar kind to match them.” [Sad, 38: 55-58]
“In front of him is Hell, and he is given pus to drink. He will gulp it but will hardly be able to swallow it, and death will come to him from every place, yet, he will not die. And in front of him will be a heavy punishment.” [Ibrahim, 14: 16-17]
“These two opponents dispute with each other about their Lord. But those who disbelieve will have garments of fire cut out for them. Over their heads will be poured boiling water.”
[al Hajj, 22: 19]The Messenger of Allah said: “Of the inmates of the Fire, the one with the easiest punishment will be Abu Talib; he will be wearing a pair of shoes which will cause his brain to boil.” [Sahih al-Bukhari]
“Those who have disbelieved in Our signs – We will burn them in fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We will exchange them for other skins so that they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.” [Surah an-Nisa, 4: 56]
Compared with this:
1st John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God.
Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.
In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him.
In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.
No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.
By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit. And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.
Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.
So we have come to know and to believe the love that God has for us. God is love, and whoever abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.
By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world.
There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love.
We love because he first loved us.
Or compared to this:But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 8:11-13And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41-43And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:49-51There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
Luke 13:27-29Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:43-45Seems to me Jesus agrees with the Quran. Can you even provide one single verse attributed to Jesus that denies the vivid reality of Hell?
Just One?
Hi Bod.Weeping= sobbing in deep regret and sadness
Knashing of teeth= frustration and regret.
Outer darkness= away from the Love of God!
The word 'eternal' (punishment) was translated from the word Aion which means Age or Time prescribed. After this is the Second Death (Death meaning death)
The Bible translation is a treatment of the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aion. These two words have similar meaning, and Young's Literal Translation renders them and their derivatives as “age” or “age-during”.Alot different than the Quran dont you think:)
Karmarie,How then do you reinterpret Jesus saying:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mark 9:43-45
Hi Bod.God is a consuming fire.
“Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire.” Hebrews 12:28-29
“He will sit as a refiner and a purifier of silver; He will purify the sons of Levi… that they may offer to the Lord an offering in righteousness.” Malachi 3:3
Worm that dieth not: Theres lots of sites about that, this is the first I found I hope its ok, im rushing sorry.
http://www.helltruth.com/q-a/their-worm-dieth-not.aspx
“And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.(Matthew 10:28)
“Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.”(Rev 20:14)
How is it that Hell has any less sting whether it means to be alive in torment forever or to be destroyed forever, either way there is a final result for a final action.Also if you believe that Jesus paid the price for sin you can also see he is not subject to either of these things.
Quote (JustAskin @ April 03 2010,08:37) Bod,
Agreed.Edj, if you discovered Gravity, what use would it be just to keep telling people that you knew what apples fall to the ground?
Do something constructive with your 'discovery', fashion it into a functional working model of something.
And, what about the/any flaws? E.g. Why use 'the' sometimes but not others? What of words, single or combined that don't fit a numerical revelation, or worse, claim a negative as God!
I believe there is hidden meaning in numers in the Scriptures but I cannot indulge it as meant for the commin mam like me, so please expand your theory into a mentally tactile fact, then you will have people sitting up and listening but until then please please please restrain your enthusiasm for your colourful posts that are simple repetition of the same theory (Nobody impressed by the clever kid who places himself at the front of the class and keeps telling everyone how clever he is but keeps failing his exams because he isn't following the corriculum)
Hi JaQuote please please please restrain your enthusiasm for your colourful posts God doesnt like Colour? Have you looked outside lately?
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 04 2010,16:48) [/quote]
[quote=bodhitharta,April 04 2010,11:11]
How is it that Hell has any less sting whether it means to be alive in torment forever or to be destroyed forever, either way there is a final result for a final action.Theres a big difference in eternal concious torment and death. Do you really think God enjoys seeing people suffer forever? Or at all? Really think about it. The penalty of Sin was death, God was grieved that He made Man so DESTROYED them in the flood. God cant be some Monster who gets satisfaction in torturing people forever? You just have to look at life to see how much patience He has. The Bible says God is Love and God does not stay angry forever. Where did we get our Love and compassion from? We were made in Gods image and likeness.
Quote Also if you believe that Jesus paid the price for sin you can also see he is not subject to either of these things.
Exactly.Kar,
I think you miss the point of the post.
'Colour' is not just 'red,yellow,green,blue…', it also means 'The appearance of authenticity; plausibility'
In any case, I think the one it was directed to understands the meaning.
Only in passing: I do websites (or can do) and the overuse of differing colours and fonts is discouraged. Green should be used carefully as colourblind people find it a problem. I use my mobile phone for Internet and I can't read the things in Yellow.
Judiscious use of colour us ok. Otherwise use qoute marks, italics, underline or bold. Avoid Capitals in more than a few words in succession.Quote (karmarie @ April 04 2010,17:54) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 04 2010,16:48) [/quote]
[quote=bodhitharta,April 04 2010,11:11]
How is it that Hell has any less sting whether it means to be alive in torment forever or to be destroyed forever, either way there is a final result for a final action.Theres a big difference in eternal concious torment and death. Do you really think God enjoys seeing people suffer forever? Or at all? Really think about it. The penalty of Sin was death, God was grieved that He made Man so DESTROYED them in the flood. God cant be some Monster who gets satisfaction in torturing people forever? You just have to look at life to see how much patience He has. The Bible says God is Love and God does not stay angry forever. Where did we get our Love and compassion from? We were made in Gods image and likeness.
Quote Also if you believe that Jesus paid the price for sin you can also see he is not subject to either of these things.
Exactly.
You seem to think that nonexistence is somehow not tormenting. Just because a person doesn't “feel” something does not mean there is no torment in the fact that it is denied life in any form if what you say is true then it is perfectly fine for a woman to have an abortion by the claim that it is much more compassionate than letting a child grow up in a world of Conscious pain. You seem to really believe that Anihilation is sympathetic.Also how is it that God would be torturing anyone forever when it would be the person that caused his own suffering and not God..
You seem to take away the Judgement of God if the punishment you suggest is correct then every Atheist would be correct to say it doesn't matter what you do or what you believe because when you die you simply “Die forever”
Also once again you say Jesus paid the “Price” for you so why is he both not in Hell and not dead in anyway, was that going to be your punishment before accepting him? Were you supposed to simply die a few days for your sin?
The fact is repentance is what God wants as this is what is written in and all through the entire text of the Bible. So if a person does not repent and believe in the ways of God Almighty will they not be turned over to Satan? Will they not be punished.
Why does God talk about His wrath and punishment at all if they do not exist?
Quote (JustAskin @ April 04 2010,20:13) Kar, I think you miss the point of the post.
'Colour' is not just 'red,yellow,green,blue…', it also means 'The appearance of authenticity; plausibility'
In any case, I think the one it was directed to understands the meaning.
Only in passing: I do websites (or can do) and the overuse of differing colours and fonts is discouraged. Green should be used carefully as colourblind people find it a problem. I use my mobile phone for Internet and I can't read the things in Yellow.
Judiscious use of colour us ok. Otherwise use qoute marks, italics, underline or bold. Avoid Capitals in more than a few words in succession.
I agree completely and in this case it comes acrosss as someone inexperienced in presenting information assuming that the information comes across as more important but the overuse of this method reduces the punch of any particular piece of information that warrants an occasional highlight.Also you are correct about using the lightest colors as they are uncomfortable to read. Besides as I said earlier it would be more suitable to present information in some way other than assertions.
For instance, what would make a certain number have any other value over another?
When he talks about psalm 117 being the center of the Bible obviously he discounts completely that the Catholic Canon which was first has more books in it then the protestant Bible meaning that the center would also be different.
Then he says that the number 151 is so very special until I explain that any of his calculations of 117 added to Allah=34 will always ad up to 151 but suddenly he will say it's not special or when he says that Jesus adds up to 74 and that has great meaning but when I explain that Muhammad also adds up to 74 he suddenly discounts it.
He never presents any valid argument that would show how him altering wording and sentence structure to make a phrase add up to what he wants is acceptable.
Quote (bodhitharta @ April 04 2010,22:18) You seem to think that nonexistence is somehow not tormenting. Just because a person doesn't “feel” something does not mean there is no torment in the fact that it is denied life in any form if what you say is true then it is perfectly fine for a woman to have an abortion by the claim that it is much more compassionate than letting a child grow up in a world of Conscious pain. You seem to really believe that Anihilation is sympathetic. Also how is it that God would be torturing anyone forever when it would be the person that caused his own suffering and not God..
You seem to take away the Judgement of God if the punishment you suggest is correct then every Atheist would be correct to say it doesn't matter what you do or what you believe because when you die you simply “Die forever”
Also once again you say Jesus paid the “Price” for you so why is he both not in Hell and not dead in anyway, was that going to be your punishment before accepting him? Were you supposed to simply die a few days for your sin?
The fact is repentance is what God wants as this is what is written in and all through the entire text of the Bible. So if a person does not repent and believe in the ways of God Almighty will they not be turned over to Satan? Will they not be punished.
Why does God talk about His wrath and punishment at all if they do not exist?
You know Bod your sounding like my Mother.
I would talk and talk to Her about Hell (and her idea of it) which was the same as yours.
She believes that only those who are Christians will go to Heaven while those who dont will go to Hell (eternal concious torment).I said to Her “So if I go to Hell, would you not care I was there, would you be 'all Happy in Heaven' while Im tormented?” She said “well, no- I wouldnt be happy you were there” …I asked Her about Her own Mother (Not a Christian), she went quiet after that. She said “Its not God who does it, its the Devil who takes people down with Him, they decided not to accept Jesus”..I decided there and then I would not follow a God like that, no way. I remember it still.I was so angry. But after much personal torment I prayed and asked God about it. Over time I started to learn the truth. I now know God is not like that. And I trust Him.
People use it as a way of scaring people, they twist scripture without really knowing a thing, and by the looks of it the Quran takes what was this false Christian belief and has made it even worse.
These type of Christians preach that God is Love, they say they Love their neighbour, but somehow they believe that all ends after death. They dont care as long as they are in Heaven.
They the Bible says are not perfected in Love.JA and Bod, leave Him alone! Some of the most interesting people iv met here were different:) You get the preachers up in believers who repeat the same arguement over and over, too perfect too boring. Totally. Did you not know Jesus was an anarchist?
Bod,
Thanks for support on issue above.It seems Edj has taken note to a degree so let us ease off him. Agreed?
Kar,
One of my bugbears is people continually telling children that they will go to heaven when they die.
The Scriptures do not say any such thing in that way.
The ones going to heaven are a limited number who attain God's grace through Jesus Christ and are raised in the first resurrection.
These will reign with Christ and be priest of God and Christ.
All others whim Jesus deems worthy will obtain life on the restored paradise earth, under the new heavens.
The Apostles, and others in their order then and throughout history thereonward,will be the ones obtain that grace in the first resurrection.
We who are otherwise should not make a claim on a heavenly abode. That is not an automatic right and certainly not a surety ('For many will come saying ''Lord, Lord, we did this or that in your name'', but I shall say ''Get away from me, I never knew you!')
Hi JA,
There is a great multitude that no-one can count standing before the throne of God (who is in Heaven?)
Revelations 7:
“After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count,
from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb.
They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice:“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”All the angels were standing around the throne and around the elders and the four living creatures.
They fell down on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, saying:
“Amen!
Praise and glory
and wisdom and thanks and honor
and power and strength
be to our God for ever and ever.
Amen!”
Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”
I answered, “Sir, you know.”
And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation;
they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Therefore,
“they are before the throne of God
and serve him day and night in his temple;
and he who sits on the throne will spread his tent over them.
Never again will they hunger;
never again will they thirst.
The sun will not beat upon them,
nor any scorching heat.
For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their shepherd;
he will lead them to springs of living water.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.”Quote (JustAskin @ April 04 2010,23:23) We who are otherwise should not make a claim on a heavenly abode. That is not an automatic right and certainly not a surety ('For many will come saying ''Lord, Lord, we did this or that in your name'', but I shall say ''Get away from me, I never knew you!')
We cant be righteous in our own eyes, it is completly up to God. I agree.
“..Every man's way is right in his own eyes, But the LORD weighs the hearts..”.-Proverbs:21:2Kar,
What you quote is correct. But hiw does that mean anything other than what I said.
God's original plan is for Man to inhabit and develop the earth.
Has God's plan changed?
For sure, there will be 'many thousands upon thousands of mankind standing before the throne of God'.
But Rev 21: 1… also tells us that a new heaven and a new earth is created, that is the new Organisation of God without seas, which is division of people.
'…The Tabernacle of God is with Men [on the earth], and He (God) will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God'Is it not also said in another place 'The meek shall inherit the earth'?
And in another: 'Thy kingdom come, Thy Will be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven'?
What was the purpose of God creating free-willed physical man in His image and with His Spirit within him, also the physical universe and beautifully balanced and [a self sustaining] physical Earth? Was it not to demonstrate His power and glory and receive back Worship therefrom?
Afterall, spirit angels have no free-will and Worship Him out of duty. God seeks ones who Worship Him out of self-will, who do it because they recognise His greatness, His Majesty.
What God has purposed, so will it be accomplished.Quote (karmarie @ April 04 2010,20:44) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 04 2010,22:18) You seem to think that nonexistence is somehow not tormenting. Just because a person doesn't “feel” something does not mean there is no torment in the fact that it is denied life in any form if what you say is true then it is perfectly fine for a woman to have an abortion by the claim that it is much more compassionate than letting a child grow up in a world of Conscious pain. You seem to really believe that Anihilation is sympathetic. Also how is it that God would be torturing anyone forever when it would be the person that caused his own suffering and not God..
You seem to take away the Judgement of God if the punishment you suggest is correct then every Atheist would be correct to say it doesn't matter what you do or what you believe because when you die you simply “Die forever”
Also once again you say Jesus paid the “Price” for you so why is he both not in Hell and not dead in anyway, was that going to be your punishment before accepting him? Were you supposed to simply die a few days for your sin?
The fact is repentance is what God wants as this is what is written in and all through the entire text of the Bible. So if a person does not repent and believe in the ways of God Almighty will they not be turned over to Satan? Will they not be punished.
Why does God talk about His wrath and punishment at all if they do not exist?
You know Bod your sounding like my Mother.
I would talk and talk to Her about Hell (and her idea of it) which was the same as yours.
She believes that only those who are Christians will go to Heaven while those who dont will go to Hell (eternal concious torment).I said to Her “So if I go to Hell, would you not care I was there, would you be 'all Happy in Heaven' while Im tormented?” She said “well, no- I wouldnt be happy you were there” …I asked Her about Her own Mother (Not a Christian), she went quiet after that. She said “Its not God who does it, its the Devil who takes people down with Him, they decided not to accept Jesus”..I decided there and then I would not follow a God like that, no way. I remember it still.I was so angry. But after much personal torment I prayed and asked God about it. Over time I started to learn the truth. I now know God is not like that. And I trust Him.
People use it as a way of scaring people, they twist scripture without really knowing a thing, and by the looks of it the Quran takes what was this false Christian belief and has made it even worse.
These type of Christians preach that God is Love, they say they Love their neighbour, but somehow they believe that all ends after death. They dont care as long as they are in Heaven.
They the Bible says are not perfected in Love.
Jesus says:Luke 16:22-24 (King James Version)
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Do you think Jesus was just trying to scare everyone?
Luke 16
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
So what is the truth you have learned? Is evil the same as good?
Quote (karmarie @ April 04 2010,20:50) JA and Bod, leave Him alone! Some of the most interesting people iv met here were different:) You get the preachers up in believers who repeat the same arguement over and over, too perfect too boring. Totally. Did you not know Jesus was an anarchist?
Jesus was not an Anarchist, Jesus said:And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Matthew 6:12-14Who is misleading you or who have you been speaking to lately where you seem to be slipping backwards?
God Bless!
Quote (JustAskin @ April 04 2010,20:53) Bod,
Thanks for support on issue above.It seems Edj has taken note to a degree so let us ease off him. Agreed?
YesBod,
I feel that I see a cheeky smirk in Kar's post. At least I really hope that was what I feel because I would have liked to commend her.Quote (bodhitharta @ April 05 2010,08:42) Quote (karmarie @ April 04 2010,20:44) Quote (bodhitharta @ April 04 2010,22:18) You seem to think that nonexistence is somehow not tormenting. Just because a person doesn't “feel” something does not mean there is no torment in the fact that it is denied life in any form if what you say is true then it is perfectly fine for a woman to have an abortion by the claim that it is much more compassionate than letting a child grow up in a world of Conscious pain. You seem to really believe that Anihilation is sympathetic. Also how is it that God would be torturing anyone forever when it would be the person that caused his own suffering and not God..
You seem to take away the Judgement of God if the punishment you suggest is correct then every Atheist would be correct to say it doesn't matter what you do or what you believe because when you die you simply “Die forever”
Also once again you say Jesus paid the “Price” for you so why is he both not in Hell and not dead in anyway, was that going to be your punishment before accepting him? Were you supposed to simply die a few days for your sin?
The fact is repentance is what God wants as this is what is written in and all through the entire text of the Bible. So if a person does not repent and believe in the ways of God Almighty will they not be turned over to Satan? Will they not be punished.
Why does God talk about His wrath and punishment at all if they do not exist?
You know Bod your sounding like my Mother.
I would talk and talk to Her about Hell (and her idea of it) which was the same as yours.
She believes that only those who are Christians will go to Heaven while those who dont will go to Hell (eternal concious torment).I said to Her “So if I go to Hell, would you not care I was there, would you be 'all Happy in Heaven' while Im tormented?” She said “well, no- I wouldnt be happy you were there” …I asked Her about Her own Mother (Not a Christian), she went quiet after that. She said “Its not God who does it, its the Devil who takes people down with Him, they decided not to accept Jesus”..I decided there and then I would not follow a God like that, no way. I remember it still.I was so angry. But after much personal torment I prayed and asked God about it. Over time I started to learn the truth. I now know God is not like that. And I trust Him.
People use it as a way of scaring people, they twist scripture without really knowing a thing, and by the looks of it the Quran takes what was this false Christian belief and has made it even worse.
These type of Christians preach that God is Love, they say they Love their neighbour, but somehow they believe that all ends after death. They dont care as long as they are in Heaven.
They the Bible says are not perfected in Love.
Jesus says:Luke 16:22-24 (King James Version)
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Do you think Jesus was just trying to scare everyone?
Luke 16
25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
So what is the truth you have learned? Is evil the same as good?
Hi Bod.I dont deny Just punishment. What it is we do not know. In one place it says 'outer darkness' in another 'fire' God is a consuming fire and also to those who Love Him a healing cleansing fire. So if God is Love, I believe it is His Love which either cleanses us or torments us. Not all of Christianity believe in 'eternal concious torment' (Adventists, JWs, Anglican, Mormans, Easten Orthodox are some who dont)
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