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Hi,
Trinity is the classic example of speculation and opinion being taught as bible truth. A falsehood that holds millions in it's grip and deprives them from enjoyng fellowship with God. In the minds of most it is an established fact neatly filed away on the top shelf and they will not bring it down to face the light of day because of fear and love of man's traditionsTrinity is a powerful doctrine of the devil because those that believe this don't have the correct understanding of the Godhead and therefore will not understand the Gospel.
Paul
Hi liljon.
So we know what you believe about the Holy Spirit. Would you like to share with us what you have experienced of the Spirit in your life?Does anybody find a connection between the Doctrine of the Trinity and the greek thought of the immortality of the soul?
Quote (Guest @ April 10 2005,12:33) Does anybody find a connection between the Doctrine of the Trinity and the greek thought of the immortality of the soul?
No, Greg. How's that?Quote (Guest @ April 10 2005,12:33) Does anybody find a connection between the Doctrine of the Trinity and the greek thought of the immortality of the soul?
Most definitely a connection!!Without no immortality of the soul doctrine there can be no trinity doctrine, because the trinity doctrine needs a pre-existing second person
So what the Hellenistic/Roman/Latin so-called church fathers & philosophers did, was to say that the soul of the second person of the trinity, pre-existed as the Logos!
Hence, the Logos was a personal pre-existing living being, whose soul became incarnated as a man. And at his death, his soul return to Godhood so to speak. (The Arians adopted this notion also, but differed in denying that this person, Logos/Jesus, was equally Almighty God.)If these philosophically, Hellenistic, pagan minded people had kept the Hebraic mindset of the Scriptures, and stated that Jesus was truly (hu)man in the Scriptural sense; then they couldn't have him literally pre-existing his conception!!
Therefore, they abandoned the scriptural definition of man. Taught that man has an ethereal part to him called a soul, and that this soul is immortal, it can never cease or die.
Then turned the Jewish Scriptural Messiah into a pre-existing divine person, whose soul pre-existed his conception as the Logos. This person called the Logos therefore, became incarnated as Jesus. When Jesus died, they taught, his body died, but his immortal soul lived on!! (Seeing that it cannot die, therefore his body was resurrected!! Hence, you hear theologians speaks of the resurrection of the body, something the Bible does not speak of. The Bible speaks of the resurrection of the dead!!)The church fathers then quarreled about whether the Logos or Jesus was equally Almighty GOD with the Father; hence the Arius vs Athanasius debates. The Council of Nicaea (AD325) stated that the Logos/Jesus is equally GOD with the Father. And then finally, the Council of Constantinople (AD381), added the 3rd person, hence the doctrine of the trinity.
ONE ERROR LEADS TO ANOTHER LEADS TO ANOTHER LEADS …
And we know how the story goes …NO!
Scriptures teaches we are souls
YOU, I,
PERSON=SOUL, PERSONS = SOULS(Soul is also scripturally used to describe YOUR life/personality)
YOU ARE A SOUL, you don't have a soul.
(Adam became a living soul!)We are entirely mortal. We die! All of us die! Therefore souls/persons are totally mortal!! Souls die! Souls need the resurrection.
Jesus the Messiah is the very first immortalized soul/person who was raised from the dead; and of course he is NOT Almighty GOD
Souls are mortal. We are mortal. The Bible does not teach the immortality of the soul … that comes from paganism
Phew! This is more than two cents worth! Bye!!
Thank you AP,
Some valuable insights in how the trinity relates to these issues. However I think the discussion on the issues themselves should continue in the LOGOS or SOUL forums.http://liljon30310.tripod.com
still working on itHi,
Some have suggested this is an anti trinity site.
I protest. This is a biblical study site where doctrine is compared with scripture following principles to establish their authenticity. Trinity has sadly never stood up to any close analysis but continues to attract more visitors and contributors to this site than any other. It does seem to suggest it worries many people who want to try and quieten their nagging doubts. We welcome contiued discussion on this and every matter relating to the things of God.
We would remind those who are not catholic, and proudly point out their differences with this unusual religion, that this is a catholic doctrine so to continue to cling to it shows who you really belong to because the other church differences are really only cosmetic.
But if we would continue how about starting with the biblical fundamental tenet propounded in the Old Testament
“God is One”
Can we accept this is true?Hi NH
Quote Hi, Some have suggested this is an anti trinity site.
Where has that claim been made? I have read almost all of the recent posts and havent seen anyone write that.
Quote We would remind those who are not catholic, and proudly point out their differences with this unusual religion, that this is a catholic doctrine so to continue to cling to it shows who you really belong to because the other church differences are really only cosmetic. I disagee that Trinity is a catholic doctrine. It is foundational to protestant chuches as well. Actually, the only notable chuches who denounce it are generally considered cults.
Quote But if we would continue how about starting with the biblical fundamental tenet propounded in the Old Testament
“God is One”
Can we accept this is true?Do I agree that God is echad? Yes
Hi Is,
I agree it has become foundational for other traditional churches and that makes ecumenism entirely logical. The chickens go back under the wing of their mother.So God is One and not three, or three in one?
Working in vain. Works not built on truth will crumble and you are helping others to believe in the lie.
The Trinity Doctrine or creeds that became that doctrine are the real cults. Before all this medling by men, there was scripture. But men had to add to scripture their interpretations and called them creeds. These creeds became holier than scripture itself and were enforced even with threats of death at a political level. It soon became acceptable to disagree with scripture, but you were considered a heretic if you disagreed with a/the creed and the system that protects the creed.
Even to this very day, people can divorce because they feel like it (or other unbiblical reasons) and marry another, go to church, pay their tithes and have membership. But if they disagree with the creed that their church is founded on, then it is good bye.
Before the cults of which the Roman Catholic Church is the probably the biggest and perhaps even the Mother, there was the one Church who worshipped One God and served the one Lord Jesus Christ and received the one Spirit. Now choosing a church is like going to the supermarket. They come in all these different sizes and flavours but they all have this one thing in common. Their foundation is some derivative of a creed (man made foundation). Even the JWs who claim to not be part of this system are themselves part of that system as they are also man made. Their fruit shows this to be the case.
The enemy sits on both sides. He uses both to cause division and as a smoke screen. Satan is the Prince of Darkness, but he is also an angel of light. Do not be deceived. Come out of her and do not partake in her sins. Come out into the truth and shine the true light.
How can the things of men come from God? You are either a servant of truth or you servant of deceit and falsehood. Serving the truth means that you are required to let truth change you, not you to change truth.
It is amazing how men cannot stand the light, but would rather have a form of godliness to make themselves feel better. To admit that they love darkness is hard for them to take knowing the judgment that awaits those in darkness. So they dress it up to look godly. But the inside of the cup is full of abominations.
We must beware of wolves in sheeps clothing. They are here to try and destroy the flock. But if you love God, you will hear the voice of the shepherd. The good shepherd laid his life down for the sheep and in return, his sheep will hear his voice. But the voice of another (man or demon) they will not listen.
Is 1:18 wrote:
Quote Quote
But if we would continue how about starting with the biblical fundamental tenet propounded in the Old Testament
“God is One”
Can we accept this is true?Do I agree that God is echad? Yes
Quote First, it should be noted that when one learns the Hebrew numbers, it is echad, not yachid, that is the Hebrew for the number “one”: echad is one, shenayim is two, shalosh is three, arba is four, etc. Any Hebrew grammar book, whether of Biblical or modern Hebrew, would demonstrate that echad, not yachid, is the everyday Hebrew word for the numeral “one”. And when one looks in the Tanakh itself at the frequency and usage of the two words – echad and yachid – it is very quickly and easily seen that echad, not yachid, is in fact the standard Hebrew word for a simple one. Echad is used over 900 times in the Hebrew Bible, making it the most frequently used adjective in the Tanakh. Here are some examples of its usage where the word “one” is translated from echad: “one place” (Gen. 1:9); “one man” (Gen. 42:13); “one law” (Ex. 12:49); “one side” (Ex. 25:12); “one ewe lamb” (Lev. 14:10); “one of his brethren” (Lev. 25:48); “one rod” (Num. 17:3); “one soul” (Num. 31:28); “one of these cities” (Deut. 4:42); “one way” (Deut. 28:7); “one ephah” (1 Sam. 1:24); “one went out into the field” (11 Kings 4:39); “one shepherd” (Ezek. 37:24); “one basket” (Jer. 24:2); “one [thing]” (Ps. 27:4); “Two are better than one” (Ecc. 4:9); “one day or two” (Ezra 10:13).
Yes, God is “echad“. God is one, and only one!
Hi liljon,
No God is not the liar.But men have devised the lies by thinking they see what is not written.
Nowhere does it say the Son is the same as the Father of the Son.
Quote (liljon @ April 12 2005,16:10) lie?
is God a liar (isaiah 44:24-Hebrews 1:10)
Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I [am] the LORD that maketh all [things]; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earthby myself:Hi liljon,
And as for Hebrews 1:10: The context speaks for itself. You have to surrender, dear one. Trinitarianism is established on faith without evidence.
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