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Hi liljon,
Is Jesus Yahweh come in the flesh?
Is his life then the life of Yahweh in him?That belief opposes scripture as Jesus had life in himself. He said so.
Jn 5.26
” For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave the Son also to HAVE LIFE IN HIMSELF, and He gave him authority to execute judgement, because he is Son of Man”.The life in Jesus is his own.
In fact he is “the way, the truth and THE LIFE”
He said that too.Quote (Cubes @ Feb. 22 2005,18:35) Quote Now on that day, it would be Jesus returning to earth like a thief in the night to take his saints with him, but it IS nevertheless, the day of the LORD (Father) as per Isaiah 61:1-2. Don't forget that Jesus says that only the Father knows of that day. But the Father has put Christ in charge of it, so he will be standing in proxy to the Father as he does in all things. Hello Cubes,
You have made some good points in this post. Thank you for taking the time.Basically, for me it comes down to this. If I were to read this chapter without running it through my theological filter (what ever that may be), I would still logically deduce that Jesus is YHWH. BTW, im not saying here that I believe Jesus to be the father, that would be absurd. Im only saying that Jesus anf the Father are of the same kind and share the same name. Why wasn't the title servant or Lord used here, like is is in the later chapters of Isaiah? That would surely settle the matter, but it wasnt.
Also this is not a chapter in isolation, as ive previously posted many OT passages that speak of YHWH are applied exclusively to Jesus by NY writers. It makes me wonder.
Quote Also, here are some interesting facts about glory, so that when we exalt Jesus, it is ultimately to the Father's glory. He wants us to dig his son (to put it in 1970s terms). He is awfully proud of his son and likes to show him off (this is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased). If that is not a proud papa, I don't know of another. Isa 42
I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols.cf
John 2:11
This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.John 8:54
Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.John 11:4
When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God's glory so that God's Son may be glorified through it.”John 11:40
Then Jesus said, “Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?”John 12:41
Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke about him.kind regards.
Hi MM,
You quote scriptures about God not sharing His glory with another and yet it is you that says he is equal to the Father. Can you not see those positions are mutually exclusive?The position where the Son of God is an individual with life in himself [Jn 5.26] and has his own Glory is ,however, not inconsistent with the scripture in Isaiah. He did not seek glory but was given it, by the Father, and deserved it.
You must have used a wrong interpretation of Jn 12 41 because the Word “Jesus' is inserted.It refers to the glory of the Father as I have found before.
The post was for Cubes, Nick.
Sure MM,
And I too would welcome her quality input.But you must remember this is a public forum and, while input from individuals can be sought, we should welcome input from any source if we are seeking truth.
T8
At the beginning of this topic, page one you quote this verse…
“By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not FROM God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world”. 1 John 4: 2-4
I have looked at the scripture and want to clarify one thing with you on this verse to help me better understand your point.
Can you help me understand your point in what you have said here? Why is the FROM highlighted?
Thanks
A007Regarding Isaiah 42
Why is it that only verse 42:8 is always quoted by itself and not in context. If read in context you will see that YHWH is declaring they Yahshua is to receive glory.
Quote 1 ¶ Behold my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen, in whom my soul delights; I have put my Spirit upon him, he will bring forth justice to the nations.
2 He will not cry or lift up his voice, or make it heard in the street;
3 a bruised reed he will not break, and a dimly burning wick he will not quench; he will faithfully bring forth justice.
4 He will not fail or be discouraged till he has established justice in the earth; and the coastlands wait for his law.
5 ¶ Thus says God, YHWH, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread forth the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people upon it and spirit to those who walk in it:
6 “I am YHWH, I have called you in righteousness, I have taken you by the hand and kept you; I have given you as a covenant to the people, a light to the nations,
7 to open the eyes that are blind, to bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, from the prison those who sit in darkness.
8 I am YHWH, that is my name; my glory I give to no other, nor my praise to graven images.
He gives his glory to no other than him that he has put his spirit upon – the annointed Messiah. Nor hispraise to graven images – bits of wood/stone/metal – these are not worthy of praise but the Messiah is.Revelation 5:12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”
Hi RR,
I have another take on those verses in Is 42 1-8Who is the speaker at the start of verse 1
The Father.
That is clear from the personal pronouns used[Italics mine]
“Behold MY servant, whom I uphold;MY chosen one in whom MY soul delights.I have put MY Spirit upon him;”
Then the servant is described by the Father.
“HE will bring justice to the nations.
HE will not cry out or raise his voice,
nor make HIS voice heard in the street.
A bruised reed HE will not break
and a dimly burning wick HE will not extinguish;
HE will faithfully bring forth justice;
HE will not be disheartened or crushed until
HE has established justice in the earth;
and the coastlands will wait expectantly for HIS law.”Again the speaker identifies Himself as the Father
“Thus says GOD the LORD,
WHO created the heavens and stretched them out,
WHO spread out the earth and it's offspring,
WHO gives breath to the people on it
and Spirit to those who walk on it,
I AM the LORD,”and speaking TO the Son says
“I have called YOU in righteousness,
I will also hold YOU by the hand and watch over YOU
And I will appoint YOU as a covenant to the people,
as a light to the nations, to open blind eyes,
to bring out prisoners from the dungeon
and those who dwell in darkness from the prison.”Again the speaker identifies Himself as the Father
“I am the LORD, that is MY name;
I will not give MY glory to another nor praise to graven images”Hi ,
Ps 2
” Thou art My son. Today I have begotten thee”I now understand why the apostles put so much emphasis on this verse in Psalm 2. It defines the Son as a individual being, separate and different from his father. Separate substance and separate will and with his own motivation.
Such individual definition makes trinity impossible and that is what God wants us to realise.To not accept it is to deny the Master.
Just wanted to add a quick post to those on this forum who still are in favour of trinity and try to prove it by using scriptures who are applied to YHWH in one point and later to Jesus.
I can easily “prove” to you that Samuel is YHWH!
1 Samuel 16:13 Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers; and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward.
Psalms 89:20 I have found My servant David; With My holy oil I have anointed him
You can see that this logic is absurd! Of course Samuel was not part of the trinity. He was simply God's agent – he was performing God's task. Can we say that Samuel anointed David? Yes. Can we say that YHWH anointed David? Yes. Are Samuel and YHWH the same? No.
The same with God's Son Jesus. He is God's Word. He is God's most powerful agent. He performs God's tasks. But he is not God YHWH himself.
human that is only one verse. you can't prove anything with one verse. But the truth remains Jesus is God
Zechriah 14 proves it.Hi liljon .
You seem content with your one scripture “proof”.Are you applying the same standard to Human as yourself?
So liljon,
If the Father sent the Son they are separate beings then?.
And they can't be equal either if the Father sends the Son can they?
Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 01 2005,17:03) Quote (Evangelion @ Mar. 01 2005,15:15) By Evangelion: “Um, we don't deny the reality of the Holy Spirit. And I see no evidence that you have to believe in Satan in order to be a true Christian.”
Hi Evangelion,Good that you stopped by. And thank God that you don't deny the reality of the Holy Spirit. Could it be it is the gifts you don't believe in or is Nick entirely misinformed? This would be a good time to clear it up. Perhaps in the Holy Spirit thread.
We don't deny the reality of the gifts; we simply don't believe that God has given them to modern day believers. The gifts ceased after fulfilling their purpose in the 1st Century AD.
Quote As for Satan, I guess the question is not that we believe in him in the same way we believe in God, but could you say he exists given the fact that he was in the wilderness tempting Jesus and countless other mentions of him? No, I would only say that somebody was in the desert tempting Jesus. The word “Satan” isn't a proper name; it's simply a noun which means “false accuser.” We see from Jesus' own application of it to Peter (“Get thee behind me, Satan!”) that it can be applied to anyone who opposes another.
Quote Is there a being called Satan, according to your belief? Nope.
Quote What other ways does your belief differ from mainstream christianity? Best way to tell you that is show you my confession of faith.
Click here.
Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 01 2005,17:08) Quote (Evangelion @ Mar. 01 2005,15:20) Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 01 2005,14:43) To not believe in the holy spirit is serious indeed as it nullifies Christ's sacrifice just the same in one's life.
We do indeed believe in the Holy Spirit.Quote By what spirit then do they cry out, “Abba, Father” or don't they? We cry “Abba, Father” by the spirit of adoption, as Paul himself has said:
- Romans 8:15
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
Do you make a difference b/n the holy spirit and the spirit of adoption?
Yes, I do.Quote If yes, can you explain your reasons? Paul explains that the “spirit of adoption” is something we have as a result of becoming God's children. It's not a supernatural force, but a privilege that comes with our special relationship.
I like the way Albert Barnes puts it:
- The spirit of adoption –
The feeling of affection, love, and confidence which pertains to children; not the servile, trembling spirit of slaves, but the temper and affectionate regard of sons.Adoption is the taking and treating a stranger as one’s own child. It is applied to Christians because God treats them as his children; he receives them into this relation, though they were by nature strangers and enemies.
It implies,
(1)That we by nature had no claim on him;
(2)That therefore, the act is one of mere kindness – of pure, sovereign love;
(3)That we are now under his protection and care; and,
(4)That we are bound to manifest toward him the spirit of children, and yield to him obedience. See the note at Joh_1:12; compare Gal_4:5; Eph_1:5.It is for this that Christians are so often called the sons of God.
Quote (Cubes @ Mar. 01 2005,17:03) As for Satan, I guess the question is not that we believe in him in the same way we believe in God, but could you say he exists given the fact that he was in the wilderness tempting Jesus and countless other mentions of him? Is there a being called Satan, according to your belief?
You might also want to click here, where you will find a response to Anthony Buzzard's criticism of the Christadelphian position on this issue.Hi E,
It should be no surprise to anyone familiar with the bible and the meaning of given names that “satan” means “adversary” but it does not mean “an adversary”. That is his attitude to the things of God and his role in the affairs of men.Likewise your opinion about the role of the Holy Spirit's gifts ceasing at the end of the first century AD is just that – an opinion. And it is one with no Biblical support.
Anyone who thinks today's generation is any less in need of the power of God to set free from disease and demon influence is spiritually blind. But if you do not seek these gifts then that is exactly what you will be-pitifully spiritually blind and unable to recognise the attacks of
“the adversary”
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