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AS WE ALL KNOW THE BOOK OF THE PROVERBS OF SOLOMON IS ABOUT WISDOM..WISDOM THEN… IS CHRIST IN THE FLESH IN THE NEW TESTAMENT! IN PROVERBS 8:22-31 IS ABOUT THE ETERNITY OF WISDOM:
KJV8:22 …The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
“MEANING BY THIS THE ETERNAL SON OF GOD, JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOR, WHOM JOHN CALLS THE WORD THAT WAS IN THE BEGINNING..JOHN 1:1”
CROSS REFERENCE ALSO….Psalm 104:24 O LORD, how many are Your works! In WISDOM you have made them all; The earth is full of Your possessions.
Proverbs 3:19 The LORD by wisdom founded the earth, By understanding He established the heavens.
KJV:8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
“Set up – Heb. anointed, constituted to be the person by whom the Father resolved to do all his works, to create, to uphold and govern and judge, to redeem and save the world. From the beginning – Before which, there was nothing but a vast eternity. The earth – Which together with the heaven, was the first of God's visible works.”
THE WORD IS NOT [THE] GOD THE CREATOR BUT GOD IN THE SENCE HE CAME FROM GOD…WISDOM CAME FROM GOD..WISDOM BECAME FLESH FOR MANKIND! WISDOM IS THE BEGINNING OF GOD'S CREATION, THIS IS A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING WHEN IT IS CROSS REFERENCE TO JOHN1:1.
KJV: PROVERBS 8:31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.
“BY EARTH HE MEANS MEN,WHICH IS THE WORK OF GOD IN WHOM WISDOM TOOK PLEASURE: IN THAT AS FOR MAN'S NATURE, AND DWELT AMONG US, AND FILLED US WITH UNSPEAKABLE TREASURE, AND THIS IS THE SOLACE AND PAST TIME OF WHICH IS HERE SPOKEN.”
Right on! Distortion is probaby a good word, too. For hundreds of years those who did not confess the trinity were banished from the church.
Welcome seeking the truth
Chap did you get a Face lift?
How many lost their lives at that time? Millions. First the Romans persecuted the Church. Then when Constantine made the Church the Universal Church or Roman Catholic Church you were not aloud to have a Bible and millions were tortured and died. I had said this before that the Chambers are still in the Catholic Churches in Germany. They are museums today. The Town were I was born had a beautiful Cathedral. At Christmas time the Church put up the Nativity scene.
Those Christians died for Christ and I believe they are going to be in the first Resurrection.
Peace Mrs.IM4Truthseeling, you wrote
Quote THE WORD IS NOT [THE] GOD THE CREATOR BUT GOD IN THE SENCE HE CAME FROM GOD…WISDOM CAME FROM GOD..WISDOM BECAME FLESH FOR MANKIND! WISDOM IS THE BEGINNING OF GOD'S CREATION, THIS IS A CLEAR UNDERSTANDING WHEN IT IS CROSS REFERENCE TO JOHN1:1. first, there is no need to shout at others… ok? no need to write in all caps… that is bad form….
secondly, Jesus is not God because he came from God, otherwise we all would be gods since we all came from God…
Christ Jesus is God because He holds together all creation… this is not something a mere man or even an angel could do…. Jesus is the Creator, but Yahweh is the Creator, but there is only one Creator, hence Yahweh and Jesus are one in some profound way… Trinitarianism can explain this…. the various forms of Arianism can't… they quickly become polytheism, eg blasphemy…
blessings,
KenEpistemaniac;
Jesus and Yaweh are one in some profound way. Was Christ so abstract about his relationship with the Father? Who sent who? Who commands who? Who worships who? Who gave who the spirit without measure? Who can do nothing without the other? Who knows when who is coming back? Who decides who will inherit what? All of these answers are in the New Testament and given to us by Christ. All of the answers expressly contradict the trinity doctrine?
Epistemaniac, I apologize if you thought I was shouting I just wanted to make my statement clear.
My respond to your statement:
“secondly, Jesus is not God because he came from God, otherwise we all would be gods since we all came from God”God is autotheos (God of Himself); and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know You the only true God; {MATT. 17}”but that all beyond the autotheos (God) is MADE theos by participation in His divinity, and is not to be called simply “the” theos but rather theos. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with God, and to attract to Himself divinity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos (gods) beside Him, of whom “the” theos is “the” theos, as it is written, “The God of gods, the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became (gods), for He drew from God in generous measure that they should be made theos gods, and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true God, then, is ho theos (“the god”), and those who are formed after Him are (gods), images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the ho logos (“the word”) of ho theos (“the god”) , who was in the beginning, and who by being with “the” theos (“God”) is at all times theos (“god”), not possessing that of Himself, but by His being WITH the Father, and not continuing to be theos, if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.
EPISTEMANIC: {otherwise we all would be gods since we all came from God…}
Backing this up with a scripture is on PSALM 82:6…. I said “You are gods, and all of you are sons of the Most High.”
ALSO John 10:34…Jesus answered them, “Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '?
Quote (epistemaniac @ Aug. 01 2007,18:14)
Christ Jesus is God because He holds together all creation… this is not something a mere man or even an angel could do…. Jesus is the Creator, but Yahweh is the Creator, but there is only one Creator, hence Yahweh and Jesus are one in some profound way… Trinitarianism can explain this…. the various forms of Arianism can't… they quickly become polytheism, eg blasphemy…blessings,
Ken
Hey Ken,Good to see you on here. Your membership is old but you must be infrequent. Anyway…
Yes, the Trinity helps to explain some things that seem odd to us. You just gave me another clue why the Trinity dogma may have been developed: some were having a hard time figuring out how the Word (Yeshua) could be Creator while YHWH was also Creator. So the solution was to make them into one God, 2 persons. But hey had to do something with the Holy Spirit, so it became 1 God, 3 persons.
This tells me that there were alot of early “Christians” who were being led by others rather than being led by the Spirit, if they indeed had the Spirit.
Jhn 14:26 “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.
All that is needed is the scriptures, the Spirit, and prayer. Had the early church been truly led by the Spirit rather than pagan ideas, they would not have had to formulate an extra-biblical doctrine.
It is quite simple, really. In Genesis 1, we see the phrase “And God said” 9 times in relation to the Creation process. How does God speak? With Words. That sounds too simple, but why else would Moses have bothered to include that God spoke at each stage of the Creation? It would be otherwise redundant, right? But now it all comes together. God spoke, His Word carried out.
Isa 55:11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth; It will not return to Me empty, Without accomplishing what I desire, And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it.
God spoke, His Word carried out and accomplished what He desired. And note that He says that His word will return to Him. How often do we say that we can't take words back? Well, God says His Word returns to Him, not empty, but in accomplishment of what it was set out to do.
The Bible holds the truth. You do not need to look to other men to teach you truth. Look to God.
Luk 18:19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
Not man, Ken, God. He will show you truth.
Jhn 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
Thank you Yeshua. Praise God.
Quote (chipwhite @ July 31 2007,00:25) hello nick, this one is for you. When Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil what happened? God told him he would surely die. Adam lived centuries after that (hopefully this not in dispute as well or I have a long road ahead of me. he he he) When God found adam later in the garden why was Adam hiding. And God said “Who told you you were naked.” Adam was in such spiritual harmony and communion with God that he did not even recognize that he had no covering. When he sinned something died within him and I believe that was his spirit. It was not his flesh or soul/mind/conscience that died, those lived on for almost another melinium,it was his spirit that died and therefore severed his communion with the Spirit of the Father.
Just to note the day Adam was said to die…
Elohim said that he would die the same day. Now, if we use the day for the one thousand years, then we can say Adam died the same day. He was less than 1,000 years old when he died. Elohim, the Spirit of truth. Who can deny it? Why is He so hard to believe?Laurel,
Good to see you back. I was afraid you left after the harsh treatment over your “bug” response (and your supposed use of wirty dord). Some people have too little tolerance it seems. Pehaps they should read how Yeshua treated the Samaritan woman at the well, eh?
kejonn,
I spent a bit of time catching up on this paticular thread. You are practically standing alone here and doing a wonderfull job. Sorry, I wasn't around to help. My son is now home from Iraq and has been doing work on my computer. He went to bed eatly tonight. Good to have him home safe and sound. Really awesome to have had our first Sabbath together a few days ago!kejonn,
I spent a bit of time catching up on this particular thread. You are practically standing alone here and doing a wonderfull job. Sorry, I wasn't around to help. My son is now home from Iraq and has been doing work on my computer. He went to bed early tonight. Good to have him home safe and sound. Really awesome to have had our first Sabbath together a few days ago!
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