The Trinity Doctrine

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ July 08 2007,04:06)

WJ,

Love ya brother (or is it sister? Your avatar is male), but this has to be one of the weakest explanations I've seen yet.

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 07 2007,09:46)

Imagine that “We exist through him”! The one by whom all things were created and without him nothing was made that was made.

We exist through him because he was the propitiation for ours sins. He is the means to the Father. We exist for God, the Father, because He created Man to serve and worship Him.

John 3:17 – “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.“
Romans 5:9 – Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Ephesians 2:18 – for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
Hebrews 7:25 – Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

And I love this one because it squashes those who say “It says we should worship God alone, so Jesus must be God”.

Hebrews 13:15 – Through Him then, let us continually offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of lips that give thanks to His name.

In other words, we are able to worship God through Christ! And we can do that because he is our intercessor, our mediator, our access to the Throne of God.

Quote

Since the Father doesn't have a NT name, or if someone knows it please tell me! Paul as well as the other writers of the NT scriptures for the sake of not promoting Polytheism or Modalism ascribed the title God to the Father and Lord to Jesus in most cases.

Are you saying that you have some insight into the mind and heart of Paul? Cool! Oh wait, that is not a feasible statement.

Yes, he has a name, its call “God the Father”. And you're basically saying that Paul and the others were deliberately hiding the truth of the Trinity? That's a bold assertion WJ.

So what you are telling us here is that since God is called the Father, and Jesus is God, then Jesus is really the Father. I thought you believed in the Trinity? I think Father=Jesus is some other doctrine.

Quote

If you are going to use the model that the only “One God” applies only to the Father and the “One Lord” only applies to Jesus, then you have to say The Father is not Lord! If you say that the “One Lord” can also apply to the Father, then you cant say the “One God” can not apply to Jesus.

It will take some research, but where does it say that God would be our only Lord? We have many lords, and Jesus is Lord. When you see LORD in the OT, it is Yahweh, not the same as Lord in the NT.

Quote

The Father “from whom are all things and we exist for Him”

Yep, He created us to worship and give Him glory.

Quote

Jesus “by whom are all things, and we exist through Him”

Yep, we exist through Christ through his death on the cross. It has given those who have salvation eternal life. He is the mediator (through) to the Father.

Quote

Yet we read in another place that “All things were made by him and for him” meaning Jesus!

And yet we see all things are “Through God”

Rom 11:36
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

I see no problem with this. Jesus existed as the Word before his earthly ministry. He was with the Father since before time. He was the means by which all things were made. Does not make him the Yahweh.

Quote

So 1 Cor 8:6 reads.

yet for us there is but one God,

The Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him;

and

The Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him

This of course is the model scripture for the Henotheist and Arians and Unitarians.

But this verse in no way proves Jesus is not God.

If you truly believe what you are saying, then you believe Jesus is the Father. Again, that is some other doctrine, not the Trinity. See, even you don't believe the Trinity.

No I am not a modalist and this is what it seems you constantly do in your responses is to misrepresent the Trinitarian view.

It seems to be your only approach!

However, this is getting boring since you twist what is being said. I am not interested in chasing rabbit trails you create from a modalistic view.

I leave you with this…

You say…

Quote

Please give me your explanation of the following…

Gen 1:1
In the beginning *God* created the heaven and the earth.

Yet we read…
And God said, *Let us make man in our image*, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Moses had some understanding I believe that there was more than “one person” in the Godhead, yet there is “One God”.

Moses said “God” yet Moses quoted God “Let us” “in our”.

Moses also said the “Spirit of God”, “Moved”, which is an indication that the Spirit of God had life.

Gen 1:2
…And the Spirit of God *moved* upon the face of the waters

The Hebrew word for “Moved” literally means to hover over, or brood over as a mother hen over her chicks.

Yet Moses all through his account of the creation says 'God”.

Then we read…

Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and *beside me there is no savio
ur*.

Isa 45:21
Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD (YHWH)? and there is no God else beside me; a just *God and a Saviour*; there is *none beside me*.

Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: *for there is no saviour beside me*.

There is “None beside me, beside me there is none”.

Isa 44:24
Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; *that stretcheth forth the heavens alone*; that spreadeth abroad the earth *by myself*;

Isa 45:18
For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: *I am the LORD; and there is none else*.

Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and *there is none else*; I am God, and *there is none like me*,

These scriptures bear out that God not only is our only Saviour, but also he says that he alone created the heavens and there is…

“None like him”, “By Myself”. “None Else”.

In light of the above scriptures. How do you reconcile this?

Rom 11:36
For of him, and through (dia) him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

The context in the above scripture seems to be talking about the Father yet Paul through the whole chapter never mentions neither the Father nor the Son.

Very often it is hard to tell who Paul is referring to for he says “God”, not Father or Jesus.

Now based on Rom 11:36 it says refering to “God” that…

For of him and “through (dia) him, and to him *are all things*: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Yet we read Paul saying…

Col 1:
16 For by him (through him) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: *all things were created by him, and for him*:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And the Beloved disciple John remembering Gen 1 writes…

Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God. (the us and our)
3 *All things were made by him*; and *without him* was not *any thing made that was made*.

So based on this, Romans 11:36 which in its context is God, also applys to Yeshua!

How can this be?

In light of Hebrew scriptures, and especially the fact that Paul a (Hebrew of the Hebrews) and John (the Beloved Desciple), being strict Monotheist, how could they place Yeshua in the creation of all things this way?

Surely they knew the Hebrew scriptures. This must have shocked the Jewish people to the core!

Then we read Paul dropping another bomb shell!
Col 1:17
And he is before all things, and *by him all things consist*.

Heb 1:
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the *brightness of his glory*, and the express image of his person, and *upholding all things by the word of his power*, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the *right hand of the Majesty on high*;

Remember, he created all things “by himself” and that “beside him” there is “NO OTHER”, *he that stretcheth forth the heavens alone that spreadeth abroad the earth *by myself*, and his Glory as God he will share with no other.

How do you explain this?

Yet this same Word that was with the Father came down from heaven and has now returned back to heaven to his previous state and the Glory he shared with the Father as God.

Truly the Word was with God and the Word was/is God!

Blessings

July 7, 2007 at 5:45 pm#58557

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ July 08 2007,04:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:16)

Quote (kejonn @ July 08 2007,03:07)

Hello all,

Why is this body of Christ, the Church, called the Bride of Christ? My first response before we go farther is if we are the Bride of Christ, and Christ is God, are we not then the Bride of God? No, that is not scriptural and just another indication that belief that Jesus is God falls short. But we'll leave that aspect alone.

Who were the first man and wife? Adam and Eve. Both human. The simplest answer then is that we are the Bride of Christ because of our shared humanity. That is why we are not the Bride of God. It is also the reason that we are allowed access to the Throne of God, and why Jesus said (John 14:6) “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”

Isa 54:5
For thy Maker is *thine husband*; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Are you a child of Israel, one of God's chosen people? No? Then you are misapplying this verse to the Church. The Church is the New Covenant Bride of Christ.

kejonn

Actually yes! I am a child of Israel! I have been grafted in!

Havnt you?

Eph 2:19
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

July 7, 2007 at 5:48 pm#58558

Participant

Quote (kejonn @ July 08 2007,04:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:16)

Quote (kejonn @ July 08 2007,03:07)

Hello all,

Isa 54:5
For thy Maker is *thine husband*; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Are you a child of Israel, one of God's chosen people? No? Then you are misapplying this verse to the Church. The Church is the New Covenant Bride of Christ.

So Israel has their Husband, (the Father) and the Church has theirs (Jesus)?

July 7, 2007 at 5:58 pm#58559

Participant

Quote (t8 @ July 08 2007,01:41)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 07 2007,22:24)

Yeshua is our brother, yes. He is also our Lord and we are to honour Him even as we honour the Father (John 5:23). Incidentally t8, we are also described in scripture as the bride of Christ. By your reasoning we are all female…..

Is it that hard to admit that Jesus is God's son?

He is God's son is he not?

Not at all!

Thank you Jesus. You are the Son of God, the Word/God that was made flesh and came to dwell among us and save us!

July 7, 2007 at 5:59 pm#58560

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,05:48)

Quote (kejonn @ July 08 2007,04:12)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:16)

Quote (kejonn @ July 08 2007,03:07)

Hello all,

Isa 54:5
For thy Maker is *thine husband*; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Are you a child of Israel, one of God's chosen people? No? Then you are misapplying this verse to the Church. The Church is the New Covenant Bride of Christ.

So Israel has their Husband, (the Father) and the Church has theirs (Jesus)?

So none of the Hebrew scriptures that applied to Israel should apply to the church?

July 7, 2007 at 6:28 pm#58561

Participant

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:58)

Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,03:45)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:08)

Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,02:52)

Quote (t8 @ July 07 2007,23:32)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 07 2007,22:24)

We will never be God's brother. You know that too deep down.

Are we female? Well that is physical thinking of course, but spiritually thinking, just as a bride marries the bridegroom, we will marry Christ. Yes in that sense we are likened to a female. Christ is the husband of the Church and he is our head.

Of course male and female are physical traits and scripture is talking about spiritual things.

Likewise we don't literally circumcise our hearts.

So my reasoning is that we are not all female. Rather it was your reasoning of my reasoning that says that.

:cool:

Hi Isaiah 1:18:

We the church are not all female but we are the weaker vessel in that we all have sinned, and Jesus as our husband gave his life for us.

Quote

Ephesians 5:22
Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
5:23
For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
5:25
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

God Bless

Hello!

LOL!!!

Can someone tell me how we are going to marry Jesus and not be breaking the first and second commandments if he is not God!

God is a jealous God!

Hi WJ:

You can laugh out loud or any way that you want to laugh, but Jesus is not God in the sense that you say. He is God's son and His Christ. We as born again believers are striving to obey the Word of God. Jesus is not the source of the Word of God. We are subjected to God through him.

Quote

1 Co. 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.

Quote

2 Corinthians 11
11:1
Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
11:2
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

God Bless

You say…

Quote

You can laugh out loud or any way that you want to laugh, but Jesus is not God in the sense that you say.

So in what sence is he God? Can there be God in another sence?

Hi WJ:

I have already told you in what sense he is God, but I'll repeat it here one last time.

Quote

Hebrews 1
1:1
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
1:3
WHO BEING THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS GLORY, AND THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had * by himself purged * our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Quote

Hebrews 1:8
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
1:9
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore * * God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Quote

Phil 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Quote

Psalms 110
110:1
<Psalm of David.] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool *.

Quote

Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

These scriptures should tell answer your question relative to in what sense Jesus is God.

God Bless

July 7, 2007 at 6:39 pm#58563

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 08 2007,03:32)

wj >> FIRST of all i never said any conspired to do any thing. what i said was modern textual scholars have found many mistranslated verses . You don't have to be smart to know that jusr read any bible and see the textual margins explaning all the misstranslations. so it seams you 600 hundred scholars can't seam to agree on hardly anything espically if they have a trinitarian brain wash job like you seam to have. Gene

The differences you talk of are few. However with your “Unitarian Brain washed brain” I can see why you would be upset seeing that scriptures support a “Trinitarian view” and not a “Unitarian” one

You think that the translators had a trinitarian bias and therfore misinterpreted the text!

There had to be a conspiracy for over 600 scholars to sign off on a trinitarian bias in their translation!

Where is your proof? Talking big I see again!

July 7, 2007 at 7:01 pm#58564

Participant

Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,06:28)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:58)

Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,03:45)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ July 08 2007,03:08)

Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,02:52)

Quote (t8 @ July 07 2007,23:32)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ July 07 2007,22:24)

We will never be God's brother. You know that too deep down.

Of course male and female are physical traits and scripture is talking about spiritual things.

Likewise we don't literally circumcise our hearts.

So my reasoning is that we are not all female. Rather it was your reasoning of my reasoning that says that.

:cool:

Hi Isaiah 1:18:

We the church are not all female but we are the weaker vessel in that we all have sinned, and Jesus as our husband gave his life for us.

Quote

God Bless

Hello!

LOL!!!

Can someone tell me how we are going to marry Jesus and not be breaking the first and second commandments if he is not God!

God is a jealous God!

Hi WJ:

Quote

1 Co. 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.

Quote

God Bless

You say…

Quote

You can laugh out loud or any way that you want to laugh, but Jesus is not God in the sense that you say.

So in what sence is he God? Can there be God in another sence?

Hi WJ:

I have already told you in what sense he is God, but I'll repeat it here one last time.

Quote

Phil 2:8
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
2:9
Wherefore God also hath highly
exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
2:10
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
2:11
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Quote

Psalms 110
110:1
<Psalm of David.] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool *.

Quote

Acts 2:36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

These scriptures should tell answer your question relative to in what sense Jesus is God.

God Bless

Sorry I dont get it!

Jesus is in a sence God!

That would be Polytheism, or you are once again reading into those scriptures something that is not there!

You quote…

Quote

Did you forget the preceeding verses…

Phil 2:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

And how does these scriptures you quote fit in with Jn 1:1 without the usual “the word was the thought or plan”.

Was the “thought or plan” in the form of God? Did the “thought or plan” make itself of no reputation and take on the form of a man?

I really dont get why you guys can not read the scriptures and take them for what they say without reading into them?

Just my opinion though, as I am sure you fell the same about me.

Well you have a good heart, and I appreciate you anyways!

We will just have to disagree!

July 7, 2007 at 7:46 pm#58569

Participant

Kejonn

BTW.

You quote…

Quote

John 3:17 – “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.”
Romans 5:9 – Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.
Ephesians 2:18 – for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
Hebrews 7:25 – Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.

None of these scriptures say we “Exist through him”. Key words “We exist”.

Look again…
For both are given equal attributes in the verse.

The Father “from whom are all things and we exist for Him”

Jesus “by whom are all things, and we exist through Him”

Yet we read in another place that “All things were made by him and for him” meaning Jesus!

And yet we see all things are “Through God”

Rom 11:36
For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Weak! No! Your response is weak!

Love you to my freind!

July 7, 2007 at 7:52 pm#58571

Participant

Hi W,
All things to us are through the Spirit of God.
The Spirit is of God.

July 7, 2007 at 7:56 pm#58575

Participant

Hi WJ:

You say in response to the scriptures that I quoted to show in what sense Jesus is God:

Quote

Sorry I dont get it!

Jesus is in a sence God!

That would be Polytheism, or you are once again reading into those scriptures something that is not there!

I don't understand why you can't see that we are subjected to God through him WJ. The Word of God has come from the God the Father (He is God Almighty) to humanity through Jesus, God's Only Begotten Son and His Christ. We are married to God through him, the body of Christ. Jesus is God's Christ and that means that he is God's authority over the church. When we obey Jesus, we are obeying God(God's Word comes to us through him). But he not only taught God's Word to humanity, but obeyed God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross, and because he did he can say:

Quote

14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way *, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
14:7
If ye had known me *, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Quote

Re 7:10
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Quote

11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

The Logos was God's the plan to make man in his own image. The first man was made a living soul. The last man was perfected through obedience through the Word of God and is “Theos” in that he is the express image of God's person and is God's Christ.

God Bless

July 7, 2007 at 8:01 pm#58576

Participant

Hi 94,
You say
'The Logos was God's the plan to make man in his own image. The first man was made a living soul. The last man was perfected through obedience through the Word of God and is “Theos” in that he is the express image of God's person and is God's Christ.'

So the future of MAN was what the plan of GOD was all about?

vanity . vanity . all is vanity.

Gen 1
“26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”

God has already done that.

July 7, 2007 at 8:10 pm#58577

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2007,08:01)

So the future of MAN was what the plan of GOD was all about?

vanity . vanity . all is vanity.

27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.”

God has already done that.

Hi Nick:

Have you arrived or is God still working on you to conform you to the image of His Only Begotten Son?

Quote

1 Co 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made * a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
15:46
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
15:48
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
15:49
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

God Bless

July 7, 2007 at 8:22 pm#58579

Participant

Hi 94,
God made man in His image.
The Son is His image.

Now we are being conformed to the image of His Son by the Word and the Spirit.

July 7, 2007 at 8:35 pm#58581

Participant

Hi,
So everything presented by trintarians here
is to justify their acceptance of that belief.

July 7, 2007 at 8:37 pm#58583

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2007,08:22)

Hi 94,
God made man in His image.
The Son is His image.

Now we are being conformed to the image of His Son by the Word and the Spirit.

Hi Nick:

Exactly, that was God's plan in the beginning. Jesus became the express image of God's person through obedience to the Word of God, and God is conforming us to the image of His Son by His Spirit through the Word of God. The same Word that Jesus taught and obeyed even unto death on the cross.

God Bless

July 7, 2007 at 8:46 pm#58584

kenrch

Participant

Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,08:37)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2007,08:22)

Hi 94,
God made man in His image.
The Son is His image.

Now we are being conformed to the image of His Son by the Word and the Spirit.

Hi Nick:

God Bless

Amen.

July 7, 2007 at 9:10 pm#58591

Participant

Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,07:56)

Hi WJ:

You say in response to the scriptures that I quoted to show in what sense Jesus is God:

Quote

Sorry I dont get it!

Jesus is in a sence God!

That would be Polytheism, or you are once again reading into those scriptures something that is not there!

Quote

Re 7:10
And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

Quote

11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

God Bless

You say…

Quote

don't understand why you can't see that we are subjected to God through him WJ. The Word of God has come from the God the Father (He is God Almighty) to humanity through Jesus, God's Only Begotten Son and His Christ. We are married to God through him, the body of Christ. Jesus is God's Christ and that means that he is God's authority over the church. When we obey Jesus, we are obeying God(God's Word comes to us through him). But he not only taught God's Word to humanity, but obeyed God's Word without sin even unto death on the cross, and because he did he can say:

If you say that we are married to God through a lessor being than God, then in my opinion you are saying that The Hebrew scriptures are untrue.

The 1st and 2nd commandments to start with.

Then scriptures reveal “there is none beside him”, “there is none like him” and “there is no god beside him”.

God has not created an image of himself for us to be married to and bow to and worship!

Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and *beside me there is no saviour*.

Hsa 13:4
Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: *for there is no saviour beside me*.

There is “None beside me, beside me there is none”.

Isa 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and *there is none else*; I am God, and *there is none like me*,

These scriptures bear out that God not only is our only Saviour, but also he says that he alone created the heavens and there is…

“None like him”, “By Myself”. “None Else”.

Further more scriptures clearly teach that YHWH came in the flesh and was pierced!

There is only One God and none else, and that God is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost!

Yoiu say…

Quote

There is only “One True Theos' 94. Not a bigger “Theos” and a smaller “Theos”.

Isa 43:10
Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, *neither shall there be after me*.

July 7, 2007 at 9:15 pm#58592

Participant

Quote (942767 @ July 08 2007,08:37)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 08 2007,08:22)

Hi 94,
God made man in His image.
The Son is His image.

Now we are being conformed to the image of His Son by the Word and the Spirit.

Hi Nick:

God Bless

Hi 94,
Where is it written that obedience caused Christ to be like God?

July 7, 2007 at 9:21 pm#58593