The Trinity Doctrine

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,08:44)

Hi Is 1.18, Why depend on weak logic? Logic will convince no believer. We believe what is written

Better to be illogical?

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1,18,
Did you not know God is one with His Own Spirit?
All living beings are.
He is the living God.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,08:51)

Hi Is 1,18, Did you not know God is one with His Own Spirit? All living beings are. He is the living God.

Which side of this argument are you on NH? You seem to be doing a good job of arguing for me….

[acertainchap]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,08:51)

Hi Is 1,18, Did you not know God is one with His Own Spirit? All living beings are. He is the living God.

This is true.

[kenrch]

Hi IS,

1. The Heavenly Father of Jesus is true God
Yes
2. The Son (Jesus) is true God

The Son is God because the Father has powered Him to be so through His Spirit. Jesus in Himself is not God.

3. The Holy Spirit is true God.

The Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit and therefore God.

4. There is only one true God

There is only one God who works through His Spirit through all His children.

Did I pass?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (kenrch @ June 30 2007,09:10)

Hi IS, 1. The Heavenly Father of Jesus is true God Yes 2. The Son (Jesus) is true God The Son is God because the Father has powered Him to be so through His Spirit.  Jesus in Himself is not God. 3. The Holy Spirit is true God. The Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit and therefore God. 4. There is only one true God There is only one God who works through His Spirit through all His children. Did I pass?

No sorry, you failed the bitheist test…

[Is 1:18]

Quote (kenrch @ June 30 2007,09:10)

The Son is God because the Father has powered Him to be so through His Spirit.  Jesus in Himself is not God.

Technically you have two Gods over you (possibly three). You try to rationalise this fact away, but it holds true nevertheless.

Ken, there is only one true God. Only one.

[kejonn]

Quote (Not3in1 @ June 30 2007,08:35)

Kejonn, I sincerely hope that you stick around long enough to hear from everyone.  “Finding out if the Trinity is true” will take longer than reading through a few (or many) posts.   I read somewhere here that this site is a “hard hat” area!     And to some degree it is true.  You have to be strong enough to visit your beliefs and be objective.  Trying to see others views only helps you define your own view. I really hope to see you for a long while…….  I am also trying to figure out what is true; you are not alone on your search.

Thanks. I've been struggling with this for weeks now, but in reality 20 years. The prior struggle was weak because it truthfully is not mentioned that much in the churches I have been in. You might hear Trinity in a song once in awhile, or even as a passing statement in a sermon, but its not harped on much. I'm guessing it is because it is a “given”. But is it?

What I mean is, how many new Christians even know of the Trinity? They just know Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but most I would bet don't have a clue about Trinity. Most Christians are casual Christians — they get their theology from the Sunday School teacher and the preacher. Maybe Billy Graham once in awhile too  

Makes you wonder…

Anyway, you're going to find that I may be unlike most on here. If I see a weak argument for or against I will likely chime in. I'm not one to be die-hard unless I have something to stand on. I've seen both sides fall down on several occasions and I just scratch my head and laugh at some of the absurd statements.

Carry on!

[kenrch]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 30 2007,09:14)

Quote (kenrch @ June 30 2007,09:10) Hi IS, 1. The Heavenly Father of Jesus is true God Yes 2. The Son (Jesus) is true God The Son is God because the Father has powered Him to be so through His Spirit.  Jesus in Himself is not God. 3. The Holy Spirit is true God. The Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit and therefore God. 4. There is only one true God There is only one God who works through His Spirit through all His children. Did I pass?       No sorry, you failed the bitheist test…

No third person Uh.

We will find out who is right during the milennium. I hope you will be a better student then. Just kidding!

[Is 1:18]

Quote (kenrch @ June 30 2007,09:21)

No third person Uh.

Well, yes. For me there is. I have made this very plain in other threads.

Quote

We will find out who is right during the milennium. I hope you will be a better student then.

I hope I will be too.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 30 2007,08:50)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,08:44) Hi Is 1.18, Why depend on weak logic? Logic will convince no believer. We believe what is written Better to be illogical?

Hi Is 1.18,
Logic limits men
To the wisdom of Men.
The words of Christ are spirit and life.
1Cor 2
' 1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.

4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

6Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (kejonn @ June 30 2007,09:20)

Thanks. I've been struggling with this for weeks now, but in reality 20 years. The prior struggle was weak because it truthfully is not mentioned that much in the churches I have been in. You might hear Trinity in a song once in awhile, or even as a passing statement in a sermon, but its not harped on much. I'm guessing it is because it is a “given”. But is it? What I mean is, how many new Christians even know of the Trinity? They just know Father, Son, and Holy Spirit but most I would bet don't have a clue about Trinity. Most Christians are casual Christians — they get their theology from the Sunday School teacher and the preacher. Maybe Billy Graham once in awhile too   Makes you wonder… Anyway, you're going to find that I may be unlike most on here. If I see a weak argument for or against I will likely chime in. I'm not one to be die-hard unless I have something to stand on. I've seen both sides fall down on several occasions and I just scratch my head and laugh at some of the absurd statements. Carry on!

Hi kejonn,
I'm curious, can you briefly explain for me your understanding of Jesus?

Thanks.

[NickHassan]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 30 2007,08:52)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,08:51) Hi Is 1,18, Did you not know God is one with His Own Spirit? All living beings are. He is the living God. Which side of this argument are you on NH? You seem to be doing a good job of arguing for me….

Hi Is 1.18,
The Spirit PROCEEDETH FROM GOD.
God is ever one with His own SPIRIT.
But the Son HAS PROCEEDED and came from God.

As sons do

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,09:42)

Hi Is 1.18, Logic limits men To the wisdom of Men

NH, I said yesterday that undoubtedly the best practioner of logic ever was Yeshua. He applied it to scripture to make theological pretzels out of the Pharisees and Saducees. Paul employed Aristotelian logic frequently in his letters.

Do you hold it against these two?

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1.18,
Christ taught from scripture.
He loved scripture
We follow him

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,09:44)

Quote (Is 1:18 @ June 30 2007,08:52) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,08:51) Hi Is 1,18, Did you not know God is one with His Own Spirit? All living beings are. He is the living God. Which side of this argument are you on NH? You seem to be doing a good job of arguing for me…. Hi Is 1.18, The Spirit PROCEEDETH FROM GOD. God is ever one with His own SPIRIT. But the Son HAS PROCEEDED and came from God. As sons do

Curious. Are you saying that the Holy Spirit was begotten too??

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1,18,
The Spirit of God is not a son of God.
Christ proceeded as a son.
God pours of His Spirit.
The Spirit proceeds.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,09:49)

Hi Is 1.18, Christ taught from scripture. He loved scripture We follow him

You didn't answer my question (again).

Quote

Do you hold it against these two?

NH, Yeshua applied logic to scripture, and did it adeptly. Read Matthew 22. See for yourself.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 30 2007,09:53)

Hi Is 1,18, The Spirit of God is not a son of God. Christ proceeded as a son. God pours of His Spirit. The Spirit proceeds.

I think you missed the point.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is 1,18,
And when that Spirit is given even to lowly men
it unites us to God as God is never separate from His own Spirit.

1Cor 2
” 10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

[Author]

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