The Trinity Doctrine

[NickHassan]

Quote (TimothyVI @ May 17 2007,22:49)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 17 2007,17:21) Hi tim2, None of the creeds were written by anointed men of God. Why follow deceived men? Hi Nick, I too do not follow creeds, however, does the fact that we have not explicitly been told whether or not these men were anointed men of God, mean that they were not? Were the men that decided on the canon anointed men of God? Tim

Hi Tim4,
God can use donkeys to do His will.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
Good work,
However the Word who was with God, and was before Abraham and David.
His beginning as the monogenes son was not his conception in Mary.

Micah 5.2
“His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity”

[Not3in1]

Thanks, Nick.

“Origins” literally signifies a “going out,” and a beginning or birth, and so the verse is saying that the birth of the Messiah has been determined, or appointed, from everlasting. In contrast to the Messiah who had an origin, the true God is without origin.

Part of Micah 5:2 has been fulfilled: the messiah, Jesus, was born in Bethlehem. One day, he will be Israel's king.

[NickHassan]

Hi not3,
That is the BU allegorical view, who cannot accept the MONOGENES son being sent into the world.
1Jn 4.9f

[Not3in1]

Tim2 writes:
That exact language isn't in the creeds, Not3,
************

But, Tim, doesn't that make you wonder? I mean, the bishops who got together to write these creeds did not even use biblical language to describe their “findings.” Now, we want to add to their non-biblical language even further? Where does it stop? Will it? Maybe hundreds of years from now, words that we use to describe God will no longer be employed at all. Maybe God will be a mystic-three-headed-goddess! I'm not trying to offend. I'm trying to question when it is OK to use non-biblical terminology and when it is not. Certainly to describe our God and his Son – we should stick to the Bible. We've already established that “Trinity” isn't there – OK – fair enough. But neither is “God of very God” or “Eternal Son” or ANYTHING that has to do with God being somehow three in one. Help me understand why I should believe your creed when it doesn't call on scripture but non-biblical vocabulary?

[Not3in1]

True. In fact I mean to note what source I got it from (sorry – ha). I'm in a bit of a hurry here and wanted to get it down and check other threads before I have to go. Um, yah, to be perfectly honest, I am looking into the BU ideas and comparing them a bit. There is a lot there that I like and find to be very straight-forward and found easily in scripture. I also take into account what I hear here (hear-here – ha). No coffee today – I've been chasing my own tail.

[gwhelchel]

Dear Not3in1

Thank you for your reply. I'm off to Seattle and then a cruise to Alaska. Won't be returning until the last couple days in May. I'll respond once I'm unpacked. Gotta finish packing tonight!

[Proclaimer]

Quote (gwhelchel @ May 19 2007,10:57)

Dear Not3in1 Thank you for your reply. I'm off to Seattle and then a cruise to Alaska. Won't be returning until the last couple days in May. I'll respond once I'm unpacked. Gotta finish packing tonight!

Don't forget the sunblock.

[gwhelchel]

In Alaska?? I live in Arizona. I won't forget the down coat and long johns! hahahahahaha

[Not3in1]

Thank you for your reply. I'm off to Seattle and then a cruise to Alaska. Won't be returning until the last couple days in May. I'll respond once I'm unpacked. Gotta finish packing tonight!
*******************

GW, we both live in WA State! Unless of course you are traveling to Seattle from somewhere else to catch your cruise? My sister lives in AK and I visit her twice a year. My favorite time to visit is in October. Mainly because they only have one basic tree there, they all turn orange at once – it's quite spectacular!

Not to get too personal (and I promise I won't stock you – ha), but what church do you attend? I've been to most of the churches in WA state – even over the mountains. I used to travel in a Christian band that ministered for the purpose of raising money for Teen Challenge (a Christian drug re-hab in Seattle). We were invited all over the place, even into Idaho. We had a map of nearly every church in WA state and we would pin each one as we were invited. The map was pretty full by the time we ended full-time ministry back in the early 90's. Anyway, good to hear from a local.

[Not3in1]

Oh! GW, I guess I should read all the posts before I post – duh! You are traveling to Seattle from AZ – gotcha.
Well, have a great cruise. My hubby has been trying to get me on a cruise for years. We live on the water, but I'm scared to boat. Isn't that sad? I guess I watched the Titanic one too many times! Ha!

[gwhelchel]

I attend a nondenominational Christian church. I have been a Christian for many, many moons and was raised Mormon and spent many years as a missionary to the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. It was during these years that I studied the Bible diligently and learned Greek. It was during the years I was a Mormon that believing that Jesus was less than God Almighty made no sense to me and left my life in unrest. How could someone less than God pay for my sins? His life and death would be about him. It was not until the day I met the real Jesus that I finally understood why the Savior HAD to be God or there was no way that His death could apply infinitely to anyone beyond Himself.

I live in AZ and am a licensed counselor. I love cruises…the food is totally awesome, I can't wait to row a boat up to a glacier and touch it with my hands. I think it would be impossible to see the beauty of Alaska without knowing that there is a God…Rom. 1:25ff.

Okay, I'm off to bed (by the way, my late husband's mother's family was from Arkansas (Bonnerdale)). My brother lives in Seattle.

[NickHassan]

Hi GW,
So you believe Jesus is God and God died?
Because you think we are so important only God's death could suffice??
What of THE God of the bible, the Father of Jesus?

[Not3in1]

GW,
My Mother's family is from Arkansas. Small world, huh? I visited my Auntie in Little Rock a few years back – boy the trees grow super-duper tall there. We have tall trees, but they are incrediable.

It is hard to enjoy God's creation without giving him complete credit. I tell my children that God is an amazing artist.

I've heard it said before that if it wasn't God who paid the price for our sins then we are not saved at all! Meaning, it had to be God Almighty who died or it doesn't count.

A few thoughts here: God is not a man. God cannot die. God does not change his mind.

We should abandoned the idea that God canceled out these three truths that he told us about himself. We can safely say that if he canceled these truths out – then God is liar. What else could it mean?

For me, as a Mother, it would be more difficult to offer my son as a sacrifice than it would be for me to be the sacrifice. Also, it means more to me to know that my Lord Jesus is someone I can relate to – he is my mediator. But more than that, he is also my brother. The relationship I enjoy with Jesus, to be honest, would be utterly ruined if he turned out to be God Almighty decked out in flesh.

[Not3in1]

How could someone less than God pay for my sins?
************

For God to cancel our debt would be too easy. For me, thinking that Jesus is an incarnation of God Almighty himself is just too easy. On the other hand, if Jesus is a legitimate son, then he is one of us (only with divine DNA – I bet he had great skin!) Anyway, it means more to me that Jesus had to work and sacrifice, and struggle to buy my salvation. It makes me love him all the more. Oh, how I love Jesus!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 17 2007,18:56)

Hi GW, You quote. Phil. 2:11   “And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is LORD, to the glory of God the Father.” You should walk with Paul. He knew who his Lord is and Who his God is.

NH

Yes and Paul also said…

Rom 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

Paul is quoting the same scripture as Phil 2:11.

How do you explain this?

[NickHassan]

Hi W,
Rom 14
“11For it is written,
“(A)AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, (B)EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.”

Phil 2
10so that at the name of Jesus (A)EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of (B)those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

Note the first scripture says “It is written” so quoting scripture.

The verse from Phil 2 does not do so and should not be assumed to be a quote. That is inappropriate presumption. Instead it is a parallel verse showing something very similar in the roles of Christ and his God because, and I quote Jesus

“all authority has been given to me”

[Adam Pastor]

Hmmm!
Everyone shall confess to GOD that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of GOD!!

Its a no-brainer!

[TimothyVI]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 18 2007,06:57)

Quote (TimothyVI @ May 17 2007,22:49) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 17 2007,17:21) Hi tim2, None of the creeds were written by anointed men of God. Why follow deceived men? Hi Nick, I too do not follow creeds, however, does the fact that we have not explicitly been told whether or not these men were anointed men of God, mean that they were not? Were the men that decided on the canon anointed men of God? Tim Hi Tim4, God can use donkeys to do His will.

Hi Nick,

Then would they be anointed donkeys of God?

Tim

[TimothyVI]

Hi Nick,
Seriously, you said “None of the creeds were written by anointed men of God.”

How do we know for a fact that they were not anointed by God?
After all, you said that God can even use donkeys to do his will.

How do we know that the men that decided on the canon of the bible that we believe in were anointed by God?

TIm

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