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And I knew they were one God
***************“they” – the english language means nothing to the Trinitarian.
What of those who have no “teacher” Hmm? Does not God say he has written his law in their hearts and they are without excuse?
5:21 -Just as the Father raises the dead, the Son raises whom He will.
******************
But the Father ENABLES Jesus to do these things. Surely one who is enabled is not equal to the one who is the enabler?Quote
I wrote that Jesus prayed for the persons of His church to be one body and spirit with Him, just as the persons of the Trinity are one God.So you believe that Jesus and his Church are “one” “just as” the persons of the trinity are one? Yes?
Yet you use this as proof of the trinity, when clearly if Jesus and Jehovah are “one” in the same sense that his body of followers are “one” this cannot be speaking of a trinity.
It's speaking of unity. Not trinity. Unity, not trinity.
Quote Now if Jesus is not God, then this Scripture makes no sense. For believers are all the same thing, they are all men, and Jesus prays for them to be one. So He prayed for persons who are all the same thing to be one.
What does them all being men have to do with Jesus praying for them to be “one.” Yes they're all human. From different languages, different places, men, women, children, yet they are “one” in purpose, thought, action, they all follow the same one, and all are united. Yes, they're all human. They also all have toes. I could say that having “toes” is what makes them “one” and so Jesus and Jehovah must have toes.Regardless of what you say, Jesus and Jehovah are “one” “just as” Jesus own followers are “one.”
JOHN 17:21-22
“in order that they may all be one [Lit “one thing”], JUST AS YOU, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, in order that the world may believe that you sent me forth. Also, I have given them the glory that you have given me, IN ORDER THAT THEY MAY BE ONE JUST AS WE ARE ONE.”I believe that just as Jesus followrs are “one” in spirit, purpose, action….united, that Jesus and Jehovah are “one.” In just the same way.
“I and the Father are one” (This does not suggest a trinity as only two are mentioned as being one, not three, as with the vast majority…90 some percent of “trinitarian scriptures.)
What he meant by this expression he himself made clear later when he prayed regarding his followers that “they may be one just as we are one.” (John 17:22) Jesus and his Father are “one” in that Jesus is in full harmony with his Father. And he prayed that all his followers might likewise be in harmony with his Father, with Jesus and with one another.
Quote Jesus is exalted to such a high status in Scripture (above all He's declared to be God and equal to the Father, but you reject this) t Actually, nowhere does scripture say he is “equal to the Father,” but rather Jesus himself said the Father is greater than he.
He used the same Greek word (hen) for “one” in all these instances. Obviously, Jesus’ disciples do not all become part of the Trinity. But they do come to share a oneness of purpose with the Father and the Son, the same sort of oneness that unites God and Christ.
Nick,
You admit that Jesus is equal to God? Great. Now you just have to realize that there are not two omnipotent Gods, but one.
Not3,
I don't understand your point about “they.” Please explain. It's taken straight from the Athanasian creed. They are not three Gods, but one God.
You are right about those who have no human teachers. They are without excuse. But God in His mercy has provided the church with teachers, and by His grace churches with teachers will be planted where ever believers are.
Regarding enabling, 5:19 says that the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless something He sees the Father doing. This doesn't say that the Father enables the Son to do it. It says the Son does it. Then 5:20 says that the Father shows the Son all things He is doing, reinforcing the declaration in 5:19 that the Son does everything the Father does. How can someone who is not God do everything that God does? And then in 5:21 it says that the Son gives life to whom He wishes. There is nothing in here about enabling.
Tim
David,
The Trinity doctrine does not deny unity. It confesses unity. This is one of the opening lines of the Athanasian creed.
It seems that you believe John 17:20ff is speaking only of unity of will and purpose. But we know that believers have a much greater unity than this. They have unity of being. They are one body. 1 Corinthians 12:12. And they are one spirit with the Lord. 1 Corinthians 6:17. So they are multiple persons, but one body. And they are multiple persons, but one spirit. Likewise, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are multiple persons, but one God. So the ontological nature of the persons must necessarily be the same in each case. The body of Christ is man. It cannot have a dog as a member. The spirit of the church is the Lord's spirit and the believers' spirit. It cannot be one with the spirit of an unbeliever. And God is God. God cannot be part subordinate created god.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
You say
“Nick,You admit that Jesus is equal to God? Great. Now you just have to realize that there are not two omnipotent Gods, but one.”
What happened to the idea of three?
This committee concept of God is nonsense.
We now have economic and ontological forms.We cannot wait till the next exciting developments,
though being pulled out is more likely.Hi Tim2,
Sort of like I am united to my big toe?
That sort of unity is a little ho hum.
Agreed unity between two means something.Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 24 2007,01:53) Is 1:18 wrote Quote A CEO can divest himself of the privileges, prerogatives and attributes attendant with that lofty position in life and become a street begger, but he remains a human being. Understand? But, (as David pointed out), he would no longer be a CEO!
Is 1:18 then wrote:
Quote Obviously the analogy was limited, it wasn't intended to be an exhaustive explanation. But my point was made, the CEO was a human first and foremost. Although he “emptied” himself and took a lower lot in life, he retained his intrinsic nature. Yes, if the issue is nature and not stature, then your analogy is completely wrong. The CEO is not taking on a new nature at all by becoming a beggar, whereas Jesus supposedly did by becoming a human being. A better analogy might be:
An elephant divests himself of the privileges, prerogatives and attributes attendant with being a large warm blooded mammal and becomes a grasshopper, but he remains an elephant?!?!?!?!?!?
Hmmm….so are you saying it would be impossible for the omnipotent, eternal SUPREME being to divest Himself of the independant usage of the divine privileges/prerogatives/attributes and put on the cloak of humanity? If he can create a universe I can't see that stretching Him too much….Incidentally, what do you believe He “emptied” Himself of, WIT? And how do you interpret this verse?
2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich.In what sense, and when, was He rich?
In what sense, and when, did He become poor?
Quote The existences are mutually exclusive. In fact, many scholarly Trinitarians recognize this fact, and therefore strongly object to your assertion that Jesus divested himself of anything. Perhaps you should heed their warning:
Bandwagon fallacy
I might have to revise that “lucid thinker” remark
Quote (Tim2 @ April 24 2007,03:28) Not3, I don't understand your point about “they.” Please explain. It's taken straight from the Athanasian creed. They are not three Gods, but one God.
Tim sorry to state the obvious!
However the Athanasian Creed is NOT Scripture!
It was not even written by Athanasius in fact!!Also again stating the obvious …
Your statement “And I knew they were one God”
does not make sense in any language whether English, Hebrew or Greek!!There has on this forum been much confusion between Christ’s mission or “office” as Messiah and that of His substance which is The Eternal God.
When Christ was to leave heaven and was to take the form of a man He did not cease to be God. He simply put aside His own divine power and was dependent on God for power. This makes Him our example to follow because we too are to depend totally on God.
This is the truth that these Arian folk are dancing around. They focus on Christ's incarnation as a man, yet they ignore the overwhelming evidence of His deity.
Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
He had to overcome Satan while living as a man. Christ did not come to earth to show what a God can do, but what man can do when he depends on God for power. He succeeded where Adam failed.
Heb 2:16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
A human body was fashioned for Christ. A body which had sinful propensities just like ours. A body less than what Adam had, weakened by the curse of sin.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Christ condemned sin in the flesh. He resisted sin. Don’t forget that He laid aside His divine power and did not use it for His own benefit, overcoming temptation relying on God for power. We too can resist temptation if we rely on God for power. Christ was our example.
Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Heb 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.Luk 4:2 (Jesus) Being forty days tempted of the devil.
Luk 4:12 And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.Who was being tempted here? Jesus; The Lord thy God In His human incarnation of course.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
There are many instances in the scripture where Jesus calls the Father..His God and says the Father is greater than I.
In these instances Jesus was encumbered with humanity or within the context of Him being the Messiah. Don’t forget that Christ is still ministering for us right now as our High Priest in the heavenly sanctuary. So His mission is not yet over.
Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.
Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom
The phrase “O God” is a worshipful phrase indicating the reverence each Person of the Godhead have one for another. Each recognises the other as their God. Each are willing to submit one to the other.
. Within the Godhead a plan was made for the salvation of man. It is evident that each divine Person within the Godhead takes on a different office or role. It is a pity that we too cannot learn the character and humility of God.
Jesus said.
Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Joh 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God
The Pharasee understood that Jesus was claiming deity and equality with God, that is why they tried to stone Him.
Jesus could have told them that they misunderstood Him, but He didn't. Jesus knew that the Pharasees understood His assertion of deity and did not correct them.
It seems that the Pharisees had better understanding of Jesus' words than the JWs and Arians.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,Jn 1:1 says, “and the word was God”. However, before the incarnation, Jesus made a choice to submit to the Father as His head. He had to live in His humanity as a man depending on God for power. Jesus did not give up being God, He was subject to and obeying the Father while living as a man.
The Father would maintain the head position and He would become the central One to pray to. He does not minister to us in the direct way of the Son and Holy Spirit. He would not have the central focus to save mankind and to eventually be as highly exalted as the Saviour. He is self effacing in this respect.
Each member of the Godhead took on a position that was selfless to the extreme and thus revealing the character of God.
We can now understand better Christ’s statement
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
We can stand in awe of the great love, humility and even servanthood of the Godhead.
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Deu 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
1Sa 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is there any rock like our God.
Psa 78:35 And they remembered that God was their rock, and the high God their redeemer.
Yes! God was their Rock. Who was that Rock?
… and that Rock was Christ. (1Co 10:4)
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
Quote (Tim2 @ April 24 2007,03:28) … Regarding enabling, 5:19 says that the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless something He sees the Father doing. This doesn't say that the Father enables the Son to do it. It says the Son does it. Then 5:20 says that the Father shows the Son all things He is doing, reinforcing the declaration in 5:19 that the Son does everything the Father does. How can someone who is not God do everything that God does? … Answer: (John 14:10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
It is really that simple.
It is the ONE GOD, the Father that actually does the works.
The works are shown or manifested through His Agent/Representative, Jesus of Nazareth.Thus in John 5.17 … the Agent/Sent works the works of the Principal/Sender
i.e. the Father (the Sender) heals when the Son (the Sent) speaks the word or lays his hands, etc.;
the Father (the Sender) performs the miracles when the Son (the Sent) prays or speaks the word or lays his hands, etc.;It is the Law of Agency.
The Sent/Agent/Shaliach represents the Sender/Principal i.e.
The visible Son represents the invisible Father in action.And just as the Sent is NOT the Sender;
just as the Agent/Representative is NOT identical or the same as the One who sends him …
likewise the Son is NOT the Father.So, this is how Jesus of Nazareth who is not Almighty GOD does everything [in context] that Almighty GOD does … because he does it by the power of Almighty GOD; whilst Almighty GOD does the actual works through him!
Do you get it??
The people of Christ's time got it!!! :-
(Mat 9:6-8) But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power [authority] on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7 And he arose, and departed to his house. 8 But when the multitude saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power [authority] unto men.
(Acts 2:22) Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Quote (Adam Pastor @ April 25 2007,00:30) Quote (Tim2 @ April 24 2007,03:28) Not3, I don't understand your point about “they.” Please explain. It's taken straight from the Athanasian creed. They are not three Gods, but one God.
Tim sorry to state the obvious!
However the Athanasian Creed is NOT Scripture!
It was even written by Athanasius in fact!!Also again stating the obvious …
Your statement “And I knew they were one God”
does not make sense in any language whether English, Hebrew or Greek!!
I believe in one God Creater of heaven and earth Blah blah blah. Like a programed robot!Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
Isn't a creed just as the prayer beads (rosery) 5 hail Marys 1 our Father. Praying what people tell you to pray. Saying what other people tell you to say. Sort of impersonal don't you think. If everytime you visted your father you kept saying the same thing would not your father call the funny farm
Jesus said you won't be heard for your heartless many words.
There is nothing in here about enabling.
*************************************Tim2, here is your scripture:
Philippians 3:20,21
But out citizenship is in heaven. and we eagerly await a Savior from there, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who, BY THE POWER THAT ENABLES HIM to bring everything under his control, will transform…..
Tim2, I see your point here that if God is in the flesh of Jesus (literally, as in the incarnation), then Jesus, himself, should not need to be “inable” – right? Or will you say that it is only his “human” part that needed to be inabled? If you say that, that is a good case for going beyond what it written.
Please use any dictionary to look up “they.”
The Son can do nothing of himself (neither could Moses, Peter or Paul) when they parted the Red Sea, when they raised people from the dead! They all RECEIVED this power from God. I hope this helps. Adam Pastor also had some really good things to say on this subject.
Hi CB,
You are making some points now that are valid in my view. Somehow though the Sonship of Jesus to God seems to get lost in the mix. And having spoken rightly of the Father as the ONE in scripture that is usually referred to as GOD you have to add in the godhead committee God idea as well and they do not sit well together.And you say
“Even within the Godhead each Divine Person recognise and have reverence for the other as God.”
which is a fanciful addition.Adam said
Quote Your statement “And I knew they were one God”
does not make sense in any language whether English, Hebrew or Greek!!Tell it to Jesus, Adam. Matthew 19:6 -“So they are no longer two, but one flesh.” And please read John 10:30.
John 14:10 doesn't say that Jesus doesn't do the works. It says the Father does them. But we already know that whatever the Father does, the Son also does. John 5:19. They both do the same works. Are you telling me that there is another being besides God who does everything that God does? That's blasphemy. Read CultBuster's excellent post above regarding Christ's voluntary submission.
Not3in1,
Philippians 3:20-21 does not say that the Father enables Jesus to do anything. In fact, it says that Jesus has the power in Himself. 3:21 literally reads, “Who will transfigure the body of the humiliation of us [into] conformity with the body of the glory of Him according to the work of the power of Him even to subject to Him[self] all things.“
Tim
Hi Tim2,
Was Jesus not working in God's anointing but his own innate powers?
Did he not need God to enable him?
Your argument is with Jesus.
John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewiseIs 1:18 wrote:
Quote Hmmm….so are you saying it would be impossible for the omnipotent, eternal SUPREME being to divest Himself of the independant usage of the divine privileges/prerogatives/attributes and put on the cloak of humanity? If he can create a universe I can't see that stretching Him too much…. Even the way that you phrase your question demonstrates how inherently confusing and contradictory this plank of the Trinity doctrine is. What exactly does “put on the cloak of humanity” mean anyway? It sounds more like a (Gnostic) magic trick than an actual transformation of one being into a completely different kind of being.
Obviously, God cannot be a man because He would cease to be God in the process. (Yes, there are some things that are impossible for God, not the least of which would be dying on a cross or being tempted by Satan). Of course, as you well know, Trinitarians do not claim that God became a man, as that would imply that God replaced His God-nature with human nature. They assert instead that Jesus took on human nature in addition to his inherit God-nature. What exactly does that mean? As far as I can tell, it is an incoherent distinction without a logical difference, as it leads to the “elephant-grasshopper” conundrum that you did not address in my last post:
Quote An elephant divests himself of the privileges, prerogatives and attributes attendant with being a large warm blooded mammal and becomes a grasshopper, but he remains an elephant?!?! Now, I realize that I may not be thinking very lucidly, but how is this any different than what Trinitarians propose when they assert the “dual nature” of Jesus? Are they not asking us to believe that a single person can, in his very nature, exist as two completely different kinds of beings at the same time? Are they not asking us to believe the analogous equivalent that a large warm blooded elephant could exist as a small six-legged insect, at the same time, without contradiction?
Certainly, if my analogy is incorrect, show me how.
Is 1:18 wrote:
Quote Incidentally, what do you believe He “emptied” Himself of, WIT? And how do you interpret this verse? 2 Corinthians 8:9
For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich.In what sense, and when, was He rich?
In what sense, and when, did He become poor?Ironically, I agree with your original CEO analogy as the best way to understand Phillipians 2:6-9. To me, these verses speak of Yeshua's stature not his nature. As the Messiah, the Son of God, he was above all other men, but he humbled himself in service of men in order to do his Father's will, ultimately for the redemption of mankind. If you read the account of his wilderness temptation by Satan, you can see that Satan's primary objective was to get him to assert his the privileges of his stature in place of fulfilling his humble mission.
Quote (Tim2 @ April 24 2007,10:06) Martian, John 5:18 doesn't say that anyone thought Jesus was equal to God. It says He was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
Jesus confirms this by showing three points of equality in the subsequent verses:
5:19 -Whatever the Father does, the Son also does.
5:21 -Just as the Father raises the dead, the Son raises whom He will.
5:23 -All men should honor the Son even as they honor the Father.Jesus also shows other points of equality with God that are derived from the Father as part of His nature of being the Son:
5:22 -The Father does not judge any man, but has given all judgment to the Son.
5:26 -The Father has life in Himself, and has given to the Son to have life in Himself.And then, finally, Jesus' authority and judgment as man is shown in 5:27.
So yes, Jesus is equal to the Father.
Tim
Tim states –
Jesus confirms this by showing three points of equality in the subsequent verses:
5:19 -Whatever the Father does, the Son also does.
5:21 -Just as the Father raises the dead, the Son raises whom He will.
5:23 -All men should honor the Son even as they honor the Father.
Jesus also shows other points of equality with God that are derived from the Father as part of His nature of being the Son:Response –
First it is clear the source of Christ’s authority is the Father and not himself.
Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came up and spoke to them, saying, ” All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
Second – None of these verses prove Christ had His own authority outside of His Father.
5:22 -The Father does not judge any man, but has given all judgment to the Son.
(Why does Jesus need anything from God? Isn’t He equal?
5:26 -The Father has life in Himself, and has given to the Son to have life in Himself.
(Why does Jesus not have loife in Himself without the Father? Aren’t they equal?)
And then, finally, Jesus' authority and judgment as man is shown in 5:27.
(It does not show His authority at all. It clearly shows the authority was Given to Christ from His Fasther. this is not equality.)4No one takes this honor upon himself; he must be called by God, just as Aaron was. 5So Christ also did not take upon himself the glory of becoming a high priest. But God said to him,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father. 6And he says in another place,
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”7During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek.
Submission does not mean equality.
I Cor 15
20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
(Christ compared to Adam and called a man by God)22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him. 24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
(Jesus hands the Kingdom over to God the Father. How can that denote any kind of equality?)25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27For he “has put everything under his feet.” Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
(Even after the resurection Jesus is under God. How can they be equal?)To Not3in1 you state this –Philippians 3:20-21 does not say that the Father enables Jesus to do anything. In fact, it says that Jesus has the power in Himself. 3:21 literally reads, “Who will transfigure the body of the humiliation of us [into] conformity with the body of the glory of Him according to the work of the power of Him even to subject to Him[self] all things.
REsonse –
According to ICor 15:25 through 28, the one who has everything subject under Him is the Ïather not Christ. the only reason Christ has anything in subjection to Himself is because the Father gave it to him.Acts 10/38 You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.
(If Jesus is equal with God, why does He need an anointing from God?)Acts 2/36
Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ–this Jesus whom you crucified.”
For He (God) has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the MAN he has appointed. He has given proof of this to all men by raising him from the dead.”
(God made Christ Lord and Christ. Why did He just not make himself Christ and Lord?)John 20:17 (Jesus speaking)
“I ascend unto MY FATHER and your Father, and to MY GOD and your God.” (equal?)John 14:28 –
“Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: FOR MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I.”
(equal?)1 Cor. 3:23
– “And ye are Christ's; and CHRIST IS GOD'S.”
(equal?)1 Cor. 11:3 –
“But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.”
(equal?)Eph 1:3 –
“Blessed be the GOD AND FATHER OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ;
(equal?)Eph 1:17
– “that the GOD OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, THE FATHER OF GLORY, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:”
(equal?)Finally, please do not pull the old dodge of saying Christ emptied himself of His authority and came to Earth.
Look at the context of the verses used to prove this point.
Philippians 2
1Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any affection and compassion,2make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose.
3Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves;
4do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others.
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
(So now Paul establishes that he is talking of becoming like Christ)
6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
(based on the context, Paul is clearly showing that the emptying of Christ is of “selfishness o
r empty conceit” and not deity)
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