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Hi not3,
Wait till you are mature, epistemaniac tells us, and then you will see that believing in a trinity is easy.all I know is that a bunch of people just posted on page 666 of this thread…. I have asked my child about this and he says that anyone on that page must be of the antichrist…. what do you think?
Epi- hello, I must be the anti-christ that you are talking about – ha! If your 5 year old knows about the antichrist and understands that, get him or her registered here and let's learn from them!
well that apparently wasn't as obvious a sarcastic statement as it was meant to be… the point is, if you gauge truthfulness by what your 5 year old says is true, then your level of maturity will never rise above that of a 5 yr olds…. I hope better for you then this, and, more importantly, the bible commands more from you this…. you are not to be immature, but to be mature…..
(Hebrews 5:12-14) For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you again the basic principles of the oracles of God. You need milk, not solid food, for everyone who lives on milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, since he is a child. But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.”
However, if you want to learn all your biblical truths from a 5 yr old, that is up to you… it seems neither wise, nor biblical, but hey, what can ya do?
blessings,
KenOh, Ken, really. I don't learn everything from my five year old! Ha! But the Father was pleased to give heavenly things to them and not the wise. That says something, doesn't it.
I'm glad to hear you have a sense of humor. Things get kinda heavy in here
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 12 2007,21:26) t8, I was thinking about this yesterday…….how do you plan to tell the church the truth? Let me know how you're going to do it, and I'll join you, brother!
Hi Not3in1.Like the waves of the sea. Keep eroding away at the stronghold and eventually people will see the cracks. It is then only a matter of time when the cracks get bigger and then the walls come tumbling down.
We are told to expose lies and test all that is taught.
If we do that, then we are shining the light and overcoming darkness. The light actually does the work, we only need to wield it and wield it in God's will.
It is God who judges Babylon. We are simply his vessels. He is the ultimate judge, but he usually sends his servants out before his judgement. When his servants are rejected then God does what he said he will do if no repentance is found.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 16 2007,16:06) Oh, Ken, really. I don't learn everything from my five year old! Ha! But the Father was pleased to give heavenly things to them and not the wise. That says something, doesn't it. I'm glad to hear you have a sense of humor. Things get kinda heavy in here
its great to see you have a sense of humor as well!!as far as God giving “heavenly things” only to (literal) children, well I am afraid that is false…
if you are referring to (Matthew 11:25) At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children;”
….. you will search in vain throughout the chapter for an indication that Jesus meant literal children….. the original context is Jesus speaking to John the Baptist's disciples, when John the Baptist, in a moment of uncertainty while in prison asked his disciples to go and make sure that Jesus was indeed “the One to come”…. then after Jesus answered in the affirmative that He was the Messiah, he then turned to the crowds (Matt. 11:7) and began speaking to them using many literary devices, …. similes… metaphors etc…. and as he spoke to the crowds He said (Matthew 11:16) “But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling to their playmates,”…. thus when this group of sayings from Jesus comes to 11:25, it ought to be clear that Jesus was not speaking of literal children… this chapter in fact culminates in Jesus' saying (Matthew 11:27) All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.” and then finally the chapter closes with an exhortation to bear Jesus' burden, for it is light….. and in fact, an exhortation to NOT be simplistic… not have the intellect of a child… but Jesus commands us to “learn from Him”…. (11:29) Jesus had a great deal of profound wisdom to share… we see it in the Beatitudes… the Sermon on the Mount, and in so many other places…. wisdom so great and profound that is too deep to be understood by small children, and often, for reasons other then mere intellect… too much for adults….
Secondly, the phrase “heavenly things” only appears three times in the NT, and in none of these does it refer to “heavenly things” being revealed to children…. once it is Jesus' discussion with Nicodemus….
(John 3:12) If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?”
and then again in
(Hebrews 8:5) They serve a copy and shadow of the heavenly things. For when Moses was about to erect the tent, he was instructed by God, saying, “See that you make everything according to the pattern that was shown you on the mountain.”
and lastly in
(Hebrews 9:23) Thus it was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these rites, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.”Jesus does encourage us to be wise…. that is, to be mature, able to discern good from evil, etc, able to know His voice from all the competing voices from those who seek to deceive us….. He does not encourage us to be wise in our own eyes however….
at any rate, I don't think Jesus really desired that we all be unwise, do you? Our faith can be child-like to be sure, a simple trust in Christ Jesus for our salvation…. but the Bible does not mean by this that our faith ought to be simplistic, immature, shallow, and thus leading, in all likelihood, to error… especially not in light of the many exhortations int he Bible to be wise and mature… to “grow up” in our understanding… that is, to be wise in the biblical sense of the term….
(Matthew 7:24) “Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
(Matthew 10:16) “Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
(Matthew 23:34) Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and persecute from town to town,
(Matthew 24:45-46) “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
(Matthew 25:1-13) “Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. But at midnight there was a cry, 'Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.' Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' But the wise answered, saying, 'Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.' And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, lord, open to us.' But he answered, 'Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.' Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.”
etc etc etc
Mark 10:15
I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.
My NIV notes say: The kingdom of God must be received as a gift; it cannot be achieved by human effort. It may be entered only by those who know they are helpless, without claim or merit.
And…
Matthew 18:2-4
He called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in hte kingdom of heaven.”Wow. I'm sorry, Epi, I appreciate your research, but I do believe that the passage in Matthew is talking about literal children. Everything reasonable points to that. Throughout the NT it is a thread of teaching from the Lord that children are highly esteemed for their simple heart and understanding. We are admonished to become (actually, we are admonished to change and become) like them.
Does this mean that we should not study and grow in depths of insight and wisdom – like Paul prays for us? Certainly not! We should pray daily (minute by minute), that our dear Lord will grant us understanding of his word to us. I know this is my goal – to know God, and his Son Jesus Christ. I believe it is also your hearts desire. God grant us both what we desire today!
t8,
Thanks for your post. I agree, of course. May the Lords great purposes be worked out in our lives, and on earth.Quote (epistemaniac @ April 16 2007,15:42) all I know is that a bunch of people just posted on page 666 of this thread…. I have asked my child about this and he says that anyone on that page must be of the antichrist…. what do you think?
EHe He.
I hope not I was the first one to post on that page.
Blessings Brother.
We havnt met yet but I have read a lot of your writtings here on HN and have copied and pasted a few also.
Pleasure to meet another fellow brother in Christ and true worshipper of the Son our Lord and God. Welcome back!
Looks like we've got a returned Trinitarian. Glad to hear from you, EP. Here's the updated list:
1. Trinitarians (Me, WJ, Is1:8, CB, Epistemaniac): Jesus and the Spirit are each God and distinct persons along with the Father, yet they are not three gods, but one God.
2. Jehovah's Witnesses (David): Jesus is a created god. The Spirit is … ?
3. TimothyVI: Jesus is a god. He has his own spirit, and God has an impersonal Spirit too.
4. Not3in1: Jesus did not pre-exist as a person prior to his human birth. Jesus has always been the plan of God from eternity. God created everything and everyone “through” this plan, and thus, “through” Jesus. Jesus is the literal Son of God, and Mary. He is a combination of both God, and man. Son of God, Son of Man. The Holy Spirit is WHO God is. It is also a gift by which we are sealed, and belong to God and his Christ We fellowship with God, and his Son, and each other by this same spirit.
5. t8: Jesus is an uncreated divine being who shares some of the nature of the Father but has some different properties from the Father and is not the same God as the Father. The Spirit is …?
6. Nick: Jesus is the Word. The Word was God, but Jesus was never God. Rather, Christ had divine origins but was not a worshiped deity or divinity. He is the most glorious being under our God. The Spirit of God is an aspect of God, revealed through creation but fully through Jesus, and shared among us.
7. Kenrch: Jesus is one person in the Godhead along with the Father. They share the same impersonal Spirit.
9. 94: Jesus is just a man. The Spirit is … ?
10. WhatisTrue: (I forget, sorry.)
11. Charity: (Sorry, I don’t know.)
12. Adam Pastor: (Also don’t know.)
Hi Tim2,
Do you like pigeonholing people?
Does that not suggest none can learn?
I learn every day-from the source given to us-scripture.No pigeonholing Nick. People can update this list however they want.
I really hope no one is being tossed about by every wind of doctrine though.
Quote (Not3in1 @ April 17 2007,07:21) Mark 10:15 I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.
My NIV notes say: The kingdom of God must be received as a gift; it cannot be achieved by human effort. It may be entered only by those who know they are helpless, without claim or merit.
And…
Matthew 18:2-4
He called a little child and had him stand among them. And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in hte kingdom of heaven.”Wow. I'm sorry, Epi, I appreciate your research, but I do believe that the passage in Matthew is talking about literal children. Everything reasonable points to that. Throughout the NT it is a thread of teaching from the Lord that children are highly esteemed for their simple heart and understanding. We are admonished to become (actually, we are admonished to change and become) like them.
Does this mean that we should not study and grow in depths of insight and wisdom – like Paul prays for us? Certainly not! We should pray daily (minute by minute), that our dear Lord will grant us understanding of his word to us. I know this is my goal – to know God, and his Son Jesus Christ. I believe it is also your hearts desire. God grant us both what we desire today!
Hi Not3,
I see where you are coming from but could it be that there may not be a direct correlation between recieving the “kingdom of God” and forging our biblical doctrines through scripture study?Just a thought.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 17 2007,09:11) Hi W,
Do you not worship the Father?
Jesus said true worshipers do.
NHOf course I do. He that honours, reveres, bows down to, praises, and worships the Son also praises and worships the Father.
For he who “Loves the Son also loves the Father”.
Jn 8:42
Jesus said unto them, *If God were your Father*, *ye would love me*: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.Jn 5:23
That all men should honour the Son, *even as* they honour the Father. He that *honoureth not* the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.Honour 'timao' which means;
1) to estimate, fix the value
a) for the value of something belonging to one's self
2) to honour, to have in honour, to revere, venerate
NH. Do you put the same value on the Jesus as God?
Revere means;
to show devoted deferential honor to : regard as worthy of great honorSynonyms; REVERE, REVERENCE, VENERATE, WORSHIP, ADORE
You should get used to bowing the knee to our Lord and God Yeshua, for the Father says let all the Angels worship him, and also the Father says “hear ye him”.
Phil 2:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Rom 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.There is going to be a lot of praising Jesus there.
Rev 5:
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, **Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing**.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.Notice the same praise thats given to the Father is given to the the Lamb.
This is true honour to the Father and to Yeshua!
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