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Hi Tim2,
You say
'The doctrine of the Trinity, however, is written.”
Interesting.
So you are in the position now of being able to present to us with three verses that state God is a trinity.We are all waiting for this amazing biblical revelation.
ps no inference, no greek logic is allowed but only clear scriptural statements that there are three persons in your trinity God.
Hi Tim 2,
Thank you
So these are the three clearest statements in scripture that say God is a triune being?
Jn 17.3
3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.Jn 20.28
“28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Acts 5.4
“4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.So the evidence is very weak.
NONE of them say God is a triune being.
What gives?Hi Tim 2,
Which one of the three verses shows God is triune and in what way do the other two support this statement?Hi Nick,
That God is one is in the OT. Deuteronomy 6:4.
That three persons are God is in the verses I showed you.
That these persons are one is shown in Matthew 28:19, where they have one name.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
So there is not ONE verse that says God is triune?
Yet you believe it, even teach it?
Is that not risky?Hi Tim 2,
That is all you can offer?
Think again if you dare teach about God from such a weak foundation.Hi Nick,
I offer the entire Bible. You insist that the entire revelation of God be taught in a single verse, so I gave you the verse that shows He is triune.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
So God is playing hard to get and we need a theological degree to understand Him?
He never actually says He is three but once you are clever it becomes obvious?
That does not seem to agree with the kingdom being for children or Rom1Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 06 2007,19:57) Quote (Phoenix @ April 05 2007,11:19) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 05 2007,19:30) Quote (Phoenix @ April 04 2007,10:16) In my opinion he might as well have said…. “Dont call me good… only God alone is good”
Okay, well your quite entitled to interpret it as you see fit. However…..
That interpretation has an unspoked assertion that comes with it, which is- Yeshua is in some sense not good. I guess we would both agree that Yeshua, in Mark 10:18, was speaking of absolute goodness. Only God is absolutely good. Even bad men can be said to be “good” in a relative sense. So the question is Phoenix, was Yeshua, as He was portrayed in the NT, only relatively good?
I have some thoughts but i'd like to read what you think about this.
Blessings
Hi IsWow good question!
As he was portrayed in the NT? hmmm ok. My answer would have to be Yes. He was only relatively good.
My reasons.
If my son called me WOMAN instead of Mother… I would clip his ears.When he was a little boy and went missing. I believe he disobeyed his parents. Right? was this even in the bible? or did I get this somewhere else? forgive me if it isnt in the bible.
There is 29-30 years of his life not recorded in the bible. We cant judge whether Jesus was perfectly good or not can we?
I can guarantee that if he was like all young boys, he is bound to have had some form of mischevious behaviour.
Anyway, thats the best answer I can give you
Hugs
Phoenix
Phoenix, I think you might be confusing goodness with niceness. Yeshua was not always “nice” to people, the pharisees can certainly attest to that, but he was always “good”….Acts 3:14
“But you disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked for a murderer to be granted to you,2 Corinthians 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.Hebrews 7:26
For it was fitting for us to have such a high priest, holy, innocent, undefiled, separated from sinners and exalted above the heavens;1 Peter 1:19
but with precious blood, as of a lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.1 Peter 2:22
WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;1 John 3:5
You know that He appeared in order to take away sins; and in Him there is no sin.Phoenix, I find these statements impossible to reconcile with a “relatively good” Jesus….I think it's clearly taught in scripture that Yeshua was good in the absolute sense, which begs the question:- if only God is absolutely good, and this was manytimes imputed to Yeshua, on what grounds could it be argued that Yeshua was denying that He was God in Mark 10:18? I don't think it can, in fact it's a verse that should rightly be used in support of His deity.
Blessings
Hi IsIf Yeshua was not nice then that would make him disrespectful. So, because the discussion was about “relatively good”, which to me means we are comparing him with someone which in this case is God the Father, then Yes he was only relatively good, was he not?
In regards to those statements…
Quote Phoenix, I find these statements impossible to reconcile with a “relatively good” Jesus….I think it's clearly taught in scripture that Yeshua was good in the absolute sense Ok, compared to US, he was absolutely good.
Quote which begs the question:- if only God is absolutely good, and this was manytimes imputed to Yeshua, on what grounds could it be argued that Yeshua was denying that He was God in Mark 10:18? I don't think it can, in fact it's a verse that should rightly be used in support of His deity. Well I think it can. He couldnt do anything without the authority of the Father.
Hugs
PhoenixQuote (Tim2 @ April 07 2007,07:41) Hi Nick, I offer the entire Bible. You insist that the entire revelation of God be taught in a single verse, so I gave you the verse that shows He is triune.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
So there is not one verse that says God is triune.
So instead of bible teaching you offer some bible derivations as truth?
Jn 17
” 17Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. “Should we believe also bible derivations are truth?
Every man seems to offer his own derivations.
Whom should we follow?Hi Nick,
Do you accept the following as true:
Jesus is God. John 20:28
The Holy Spirit is God. Matthew 12:31, Acts 5:4, 2 Corinthians 3:17
The Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit have one name. Matthew 28:19
God is one. Deuteronomy 6:4
There is only one God. Deuteronomy 4:35.Tim
Hi Tim2,
Try not to get distracted by possible implications.
We are searching for verses that STATE God is triune.There are none.
So do you think that possible circumstantial evidence
is sufficient to reach conclusions about God?Surely not,if you fear God as you say you do.
Hi Nick,
Matthew 28:19 states it as plainly as God chooses to state it. If you don't accept it, well, I really can't help you.
Tim
Hi Tim2,
Matt 28
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Even if this verse is as spoken by Christ does he teach here God is a trinity?
It seems rather to be teaching about baptism.
What gives?Tim2,
Jesus tells us in John 17:3 that it is eternal life to KNOW God. So then, it must be possible to know God. Jesus also prayed that we could be one with God in the way that he was one with God. Certainly then, we could know him as a Father.
We can know God by what he has told us about himself. He is One. By deducing other scriptures, you have concluded that because the Son is called “God” and because the Holy Spirit seems to be called “God” that they are also God? But how wrong is this! God already told us that he was One. Shouldn't we, instead, look for other meanings to these other scriptures? Surely God would not change his mind on us! Surely he wouldn't tell us that he was One – only to play a trick on us, and really be three instead? If we are to know him…..we have to trust him when he tells us that he is ONE. If we instead use our own wisdom to deduct and deduce from scripture otherwise, then we are making our own god out of our own wisdom.
If you can show me a scripture – ANYWHERE – where God says that he is three, OR that he is tri-une – you have a convert
Again, a scripture where God says he is three? And a scritpure that says he is tri-une? Can you do it? If not…..take a breather, and ask yourself why you cannot.Quote (Not3in1 @ April 09 2007,09:36) Tim2, Jesus tells us in John 17:3 that it is eternal life to KNOW God. So then, it must be possible to know God. Jesus also prayed that we could be one with God in the way that he was one with God. Certainly then, we could know him as a Father.
We can know God by what he has told us about himself. He is One. By deducing other scriptures, you have concluded that because the Son is called “God” and because the Holy Spirit seems to be called “God” that they are also God? But how wrong is this! God already told us that he was One. Shouldn't we, instead, look for other meanings to these other scriptures? Surely God would not change his mind on us! Surely he wouldn't tell us that he was One – only to play a trick on us, and really be three instead? If we are to know him…..we have to trust him when he tells us that he is ONE. If we instead use our own wisdom to deduct and deduce from scripture otherwise, then we are making our own god out of our own wisdom.
If you can show me a scripture – ANYWHERE – where God says that he is three, OR that he is tri-une – you have a convert
Again, a scripture where God says he is three? And a scritpure that says he is tri-une? Can you do it? If not…..take a breather, and ask yourself why you cannot.
Not3in1 are you one who hides in scripture
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