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Okay, lets try it from this angle….is it true that you believe that:
- Yeshua became a Son when he was brought into existence by YHWH before his natural birth
- YHWH is a single person.
- Baptism is essential for salvation.
- We become “born again” when we are water baptised.
- The word baptism in the NT always refers to water baptism unless otherwise stated.
- Satan is a melovelant fallen angel.
Does this list accurately reprersent some of your core biblical beliefs?
Hi Is 1.18,
yes and he became a human son by His Spirit and Mary
yes – but is person the right word?
Not necessarily-God is sovereign – but teachers must teach the way of Christ.
No. Faith, repentance, water and the Spirit.
yes
probably.You cannot learn anything you think you know.
Okay, thanks. Now….for all those on the list that you just confirmed were biblical belief held by you, can you please tell me where in the Bible I can read them explicitly declared.
Actually, if you could just give me the scripture for the top one on the list (Yeshua became a Son when he was brought into existence by YHWH before his natural birth), that would be fine…..
Quote David,
You asked this question, to which Tim2 rightly pointed out there is no definition given in the Bible. So “based on the Bible” there is no legitimate answer. Do you disagree with him or will you concede that it was a meaningless question?–Is 1:18
It's certainly not a meaningless question Is 1:18. You've spent several thousand, no, perhaps tens of thousands of hours trying to explain to everyone that Jesus is God. Yet, you don't want to talk about what the word “god” means as presented in the Bible. How extremely interesting.
The reason you don't want to do this is because the Bible indicates that the word “god” has a much wider scope than you are willing to believe.
Tim2 tried to say that God means YHWH. Obviously, the word God is applied to YHWH a many many times, but God doesn't “mean” YHWH.
Those gods of wood were not false YHWH's.
Satan is not the “YHWH” of this world.Because people have this very false idea of what that word means Is 1:18, don't you think it's important to discuss this question?
No, of course you don't. You like the false impression people have. It suits you. So, you say the question is meaningless. Of course there is no definition of “god” or elohim in the Bible, but there are no definitions of most things in the Bible. But we can look at ALL THE WAYS that the word is used and come up with an understanding of what it means based on ALL THE WAYS the word is used.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 05 2007,10:20) Okay, thanks. Now….for all those on the list that you just confirmed were biblical belief held by you, can you please tell me where in the Bible I can read them explicitly declared.
Hi Is 1.18,
Why should I allow myself to be interrogated by you?
It is not about me is it?
Do you have a mission to discredit me?
You don't like my service then perhaps you should complain to the Master.But bear in mind
'Proverbs 30:10
Accuse not a servant unto his master, lest he curse thee, and thou be found guilty.Or better still or show that you are one who clings more tightly to scriptural truth than I do.
That I would love to see for all our sakes.Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 05 2007,19:30) Quote (Phoenix @ April 04 2007,10:16) In my opinion he might as well have said…. “Dont call me good… only God alone is good”
Okay, well your quite entitled to interpret it as you see fit. However…..
That interpretation has an unspoked assertion that comes with it, which is- Yeshua is in some sense not good. I guess we would both agree that Yeshua, in Mark 10:18, was speaking of absolute goodness. Only God is absolutely good. Even bad men can be said to be “good” in a relative sense. So the question is Phoenix, was Yeshua, as He was portrayed in the NT, only relatively good?
I have some thoughts but i'd like to read what you think about this.
Blessings
Hi IsWow good question!
As he was portrayed in the NT? hmmm ok. My answer would have to be Yes. He was only relatively good.
My reasons.
If my son called me WOMAN instead of Mother… I would clip his ears.When he was a little boy and went missing. I believe he disobeyed his parents. Right? was this even in the bible? or did I get this somewhere else? forgive me if it isnt in the bible.
There is 29-30 years of his life not recorded in the bible. We cant judge whether Jesus was perfectly good or not can we?
I can guarantee that if he was like all young boys, he is bound to have had some form of mischevious behaviour.
Anyway, thats the best answer I can give you
Hugs
PhoenixJoh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.1Co 3:21 Therefore “let no man glory in men”. For all things are yours;
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is GOD'S.
1Co 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1Co 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
Glory not in man. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God.
We have not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;
The natural man doesn't receive the things of the Spirit for they are foolishness to him.
Not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
We have not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God;Joh 4:24 God is a SPIRIT: and they that worship him must worship him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH.
David,
There is no definition of “god” in the Bible. Some other than YHWH are occasionally called gods. But we are told emphatically, YHWH is the only God. YHWH is our only God. Isaiah 43:10, 44:6, 44:8, 45:5, 45:14, 45:21, 45:22, 46:9.
So I will affirm this without equivocation: YHWH is the only God. If Jesus is called God, it means He is YHWH. End of story.
YHWH says He will not give His glory to another (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11). But in Revelation 5:12-14 we twice see the Lamb receiving the same glory as Him on the throne. How come Jesus will come in the glory of His Father (Luke 9:26), if His Father, YHWH, won't give His glory to another? How is it that the Father and the Son can receive glory from each other (John 17:1). Why is the glory to Jesus Christ in 1 Peter 3:18?
YHWH is Jealous.
Tim
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2007,10:41) Quote (Is 1:18 @ April 05 2007,10:20) Okay, thanks. Now….for all those on the list that you just confirmed were biblical belief held by you, can you please tell me where in the Bible I can read them explicitly declared.
Hi Is 1.18,
Why should I allow myself to be interrogated by you?
It is not about me is it?
Do you have a mission to discredit me?
You don't like my service then perhaps you should complain to the Master.But bear in mind
'Proverbs 30:10
Accuse not a servant unto his master, lest he curse thee, and thou be found guilty.Or better still or show that you are one who clings more tightly to scriptural truth than I do.
That I would love to see for all our sakes.
The point is NH, you have spent about 3 years telling anyone who would listen here at Heaven.Net that the trinity “is not written” and therefore disqualifies as a legitimate doctrine in your book. And yet, when you examine your own doctrinal beliefs it's evident that many are not explicitly revealed in the text of the Bible either. So maybe you should re-evaluate your approach here?Hi Is 1.18,
I am happy to accept if you are that what is not written should not be preached as truth.
Thus trinity would not any longer be preached by you.Hi Tim2,
Your speak with the voice of a stranger.
Those voices we do not follow.
The Lord is our shepherdTim2,
Expressions we find in the Bible:
Jehovah God–50 times
the [true] God Jehovah–4 times
Jehovah their God–39 times
Jehovah the [true] God–8 times.
Jehovah is in truth God–1 time
Jehovah is God–1 time
Jehovah is my God–1 time
Jehovah is our God–1 time
Jehovah your God–455 times
Jehovah our God–105 times
Jehovah my God–40 times
Jehovah his God–29 times
Jehovah is a God–7 times
Jehovah the God of–204 times
Jehovah a God–1 timeQuote Then believe that Jesus is your God.
Why not believe that Jehovah is “your God,” as “Jehovah your God” occurs 455 times in the Bible.
Why not believe this?Quote Will you believe everything is written? Tim2 and Is 1:18,
OK Gents, since you aren't going to play my little game fairly, (as you both continue to use an argument that I specifically countered on page 652, without addressing my counterargument), I suppose that I should be more straightforward with you. My “tri-natured” Christ doctrine was an attempt to demonstrate what I believe to be true of all Trinitarians: that you believe what you do because you have been told that it is important to believe it, and not because scripture demands it.
I am sure that you both will object to this claim but I will attempt to prove it by taking the most crucial element of your doctrine and showing that it not only is unsubstantiated in scripture but actually goes against scripture! Though it certainly is pertinent to this thread, I will start a new thread called “Fully God, Fully Man”. I look forward to reading your responses to my supposition there.
Quote (WhatIsTrue @ April 05 2007,23:18) Tim2 and Is 1:18, OK Gents, since you aren't going to play my little game fairly, (as you both continue to use an argument that I specifically countered on page 652, without addressing my counterargument), I suppose that I should be more straightforward with you. My “tri-natured” Christ doctrine was an attempt to demonstrate what I believe to be true of all Trinitarians: that you believe what you do because you have been told that it is important to believe it, and not because scripture demands it.
I am sure that you both will object to this claim but I will attempt to prove it by taking the most crucial element of your doctrine and showing that it not only is unsubstantiated in scripture but actually goes against scripture! Though it certainly is pertinent to this thread, I will start a new thread called “Fully God, Fully Man”. I look forward to reading your responses to my supposition there.
WITI went there.
And all I found was 5 scriptures that you claim says Jesus was…
ignorant, (Mark 13:32)?
powerless, (John 5:30)?
lacks wisdom, (Luke 2:52)?
needs perfecting, (Hebrews 5:9)?
and he cant be God and yet die, (Revelations 2:8)?
The rest was simply your logic using the creed with your interpretation.
Is this all you have?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 05 2007,22:34) Hi Tim2,
Your speak with the voice of a stranger.
Those voices we do not follow.
The Lord is our shepherd
The voice of Thomas is a stranger?David,
I believe that Jehovah is my God. I believe that Jesus is my God, Jehovah.
You Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is “a god,” right? That's how you understand John 1:1. And you're sure Jesus is not Jehovah? So in spite of Jehovah's repeated statement, “There is no God beside Me,” you believe in Him and another “god,” Jesus. How is this not polytheism? How will this not provoke Jehovah to jealousy, when His first commandment is to have no gods before Him?
Tim
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