- This topic has 18,300 replies, 268 voices, and was last updated 1 year, 3 months ago by
.
- Posts
Hi t8,
It is surprising considering trinity cannot be proven from scriptural teaching.
I guess that is what it, means that despite what folk say, they are fighting within themselves against this annoying fact.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2007,19:49) What did the eunuch ask Philip?
(Act 8:36) And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?(Act 8:38) And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
(Act 8:39) And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Yes I will admit, this has been on my heart for sometime. And I do feel hindered in certain areas with my walk with God. I so much want to walk in spirit, all day and every day. I sometimes wonder, when I have these difficulties / hindrances, whether it's because I haven't gone for water baptism and God see this as me being disobedient to God, because I haven't done according to scripture.
God is power and there is so much power there for all of us, I know there is, but letting go sometimes is the difficult part, if we don't full submit to Him.
2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.The above scriptures, this is how I see the churches of today. They have gone and walked away from the power of God and what I see out there, is a watered down version of the Gospel.
I fully believe the power is there for all of us, each and every one of. Jesus said we would heal and cast out devils/demons and speak with new tongues.
When I speak to people who have sat in churches for years and been Christians for many years that they too have the power to speak in new tongues, heal and cast out devils, they just look at me, thinking I am from another planet. I want to help these people, but they are so indoctrinated with what's out in the world, I hit a brick wall all the time.
Mar 8:38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Now you try talking to people, other Christian I might add, about God or reading some scriptures during the week or discussing something out of the Bible in ones lunch break or tea break. Gosh, the battle begins again. They are just not interested and they flee from my office. This hurt me, because I just didn't understand that at all, it has really upset me know end. I get frustrated, angry and then I start to get upset about it, because I then start to wonder whether these people are actually born in spirit. God has put me in this position for a reason, that I do know. One day I said to this colleague, “Have you received the Holy Spirit yet?” her reply was “I don't think so” She has not come back to me or discussed this me since then, I am amazed. I really have some work to do here, that's all I know. God made us all disciples, not just that preacher in the church.
I never knew God at all 2 years ago. 2 years ago I never even owned a Bible. I didn't know what I believed, but I didn't believe in anything, I don't think. Throughout my life I never went to Church. I was witnessed by a person on the internet, my life changed, completely from that day forward. I thought I knew and was wise about most things about life. But it turned out that I knew nothing and I was now starting all over again from scratch. God came into my life from that day forward. I was born from above and now I can't get out of my Bible, nor can I stop talking about Him.
All I know is, my job is go out into the world and make sure these people are born in spirit. Not to teach them, because God will do that. He is the best teacher. I don't know peoples hearts, but God does.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 06 2007,20:16) Hi Is 1.18,
Yopu may convince yourself by comparing similar scriptures that Jesus is also the Father of Jesus…
NH,
How would you feel if I wrote something like:You may have convinced yourself that Satan is also the Father of Jesus
Over and over and over again….. Even though you corrected me over and over and over again….? If I just kept persisting overtly misrepresenting your actual belief, regardless of the truth of the matter and the constant corrections.
Would that aggravate you?
I imagine it would. Others, who have not read previous exchanges, might think that you genuinely hold to this. You might even be discredited in their eyes for believing such nonsense.
NH, it's not my belief that Jesus is the Father of Jesus. That is essentially what modalists affirm. I am not a modalist.
Please stop bearing false witness against me NH. It is a sin.
But the fact is that for us, there is one God the Father.
But for you there is one God, the Father, Son, & Spirit.But if scripture says that there is one God the Father and you say that Jesus is God, then in order to not break that scripture you would have to conclude that Jesus is the Father. Of course that thinking breaks a whole lot of other scriptures.
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Can you see that?
If you say that Jesus is God, then he must be the Father.
Of course we do not say that he is the Almighty God, so we don't have a problem with this scripture as you must do.
Hi Is 1.18,
It seems to be your mission to find scriptures that say similar things about God, the Father, to those about the Son of God. Having found some you declare to all in sundry that it is obvious to you they speak of the same being, YHWH.You are apparently convinced Jesus IS YHWH. Since we know YHWH is the Father that seems to be trying to show Jesus is his own father.
Our faith rests on Jesus being the son of God so such a conclusion is anathema as well as being illogical even to the greeks. No son is his own father and if he was it would bring us no closer to the theoretical conclusion that God is a trinity.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 07 2007,06:37) But the fact is that for us, there is one God the Father.
But for you there is one God, the Father, Son, & Spirit.But if scripture says that there is one God the Father and you say that Jesus is God, then in order to not break that scripture you would have to conclude that Jesus is the Father. Of course that thinking breaks a whole lot of other scriptures.
1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.Can you see that?
If you say that Jesus is God, then he must be the Father.
Of course we do not say that he is the Almighty God, so we don't have a problem with this scripture as you must do.
T8,
I think it's silly to use 1 Cor 8:6 in order to make an ontological point. If Paul's teaching was that the Father is to us “God” in the exclusive sense (who was Thomas' Lord and God? – John 20:28)….well taken to it's logical conclusion he would also be teaching that Yeshua is our “Lord” in the exclusive sense (and, obviously, to the exclusion of the Father). So t8….Are you willing to admit to us all that the Father is, in no sense of the word, your Lord?
Yes or no.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2007,06:37) Hi Is 1.18,
It seems to be your mission to find scriptures that say similar things about God, the Father, to those about the Son of God. Having found some you declare to all in sundry that it is obvious to you they speak of the same being, YHWH.You are apparently convinced Jesus IS YHWH. Since we know YHWH is the Father that seems to be trying to show Jesus is his own father.
I have explained my position to you many times but you always ignore it.You presuppose YHWH to be unipersonal. I don't. I think it's better not to presuppose anything about the ontology of the One and only timeless SUPREME being, the Creator of the Universe.
Quote Our faith rests on Jesus being the son of God so such a conclusion is anathema as well as being illogical even to the greeks. No son is his own father and if he was it would bring us no closer to the theoretical conclusion that God is a trinity.
NH, can you give me a scriptural answer to this question?Why is Yeshua called the “Son of God”
Hi Is 1.18,
As you say God is a being.
So is His son a being with life in himself.
A unique being of greater nature than any other being under God.
He derived that life from God as any son derives life from their parent or parents.
The monogenes Son was loved by God and was sent into the world partaking of our flesh nature.
He is called the Son of God because God is his father, from everlasting and through His own Spirit as a man.
Angels and men too are called sons of God because they too derive their origins from God.
But none of them is unique and was used by God in the process of all creation.
For us there is one God though others may claim many including the Son.
The Son of God is our lord and the captain of our salvation.
He has a God, the same God as ours, the Father.
The Father is the God of scripture.
God told us Jesus is his son.
God said listen to him.
Jesus told us too.
Believe him.Why are we still considering this? Those who were there and had the most reason to twist the truth did not asert or make the charge that Jesus was claiming to be almighty God.
Quote Doesn't anyone see it as extraordinarily odd that the people who wanted Jesus dead, wanted him gone, and were willing to break many laws to do it, didn't make the charge that Jesus was claiming to be God Almighty himself? Why did they only charge him with claiming to be the son of God?
They were there. They would have sought out anyone who had any reason to believe that Jesus made such a charge. They weren't against using false witnesses. They could have even made up such a charge–had that thought ever entered there mind. It did not, apparently.
Case closed. This trial has ended. It was tried thousands of years ago by men who wanted Jesus dead. It wasn't a fair trial. But it did prove something–that those who had the most reason to do away with him did not believe that jesus was claiming to be God Almighty.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2007,08:47) Hi Is 1.18,
As you say God is a being.
So is His son a being with life in himself.
A unique being of greater nature than any other being under God.
He derived that life from God as any son derives life from their parent or parents.
The monogenes Son was loved by God and was sent into the world partaking of our flesh nature.
He is called the Son of God because God is his father, from everlasting and through His own Spirit as a man.
Angels and men too are called sons of God because they too derive their origins from God.
But none of them is unique and was used by God in the process of all creation.
For us there is one God though others may claim many including the Son.
The Son of God is our lord and the captain of our salvation.
He has a God, the same God as ours, the Father.
The Father is the God of scripture.
God told us Jesus is his son.
God said listen to him.
Jesus told us too.
Believe him.
Hey NH, I believe you avoided answering my question, here it is again:Can you give me a scriptural answer to this question:-
Why is Yeshua called the Son of God?
I thought this statement you made was an interesting:
“For us there is one God though others may claim many including the Son.”
So there are two possibilities:
1) There is one God
2) There are many godsOne of these must be true to the exclusion of the other. Logically, they both can't be right. So which statement do you think is true?
Blessings
BTW NH, so there is no ambiguity about what the word “God” denotes, I am speaking specifically an uncreated being.
Quote (Phoenix @ Mar. 07 2007,09:00) Hi
I assume John 1:1-4 was mentioned in this thread?Hugs
Phoenix
Hi Phoenix,
Yes this passage has been discussed quite a lot in various threads. In this thread you can find posts on this topic in the beginning pages and also around pgs 275-300Here is the link:
https://heavennet.net/cgi-bin….st=2740Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 08 2007,23:21) BTW NH, so there is no ambiguity about what the word “God” denotes, I am speaking specifically an uncreated being.
Does that mean that a false God is a created being?Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 08 2007,23:12) So there are two possibilities:
1) There is one God
2) There are many godsHere is Paul's answer:
1 Corinthians 8:5
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),This is the one I hold to and I am sure Nick believes this too.
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 08 2007,08:22) Here is Paul's answer: 1 Corinthians 8:5
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),This is the one I hold to and I am sure Nick believes this too.
t8,
Does Paul teach, in 1 Cor 8:5, that there are many uncreated Gods?Is that what you are saying??
Why would he call them “so-called” gods?
and why would he write this to the Galatians?
Galatians 4:8
Howbeit at that time, not knowing God, ye were in bondage to them that by nature are no godsor this to the Corinthians?
1 Corinthians 10:20
20No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in demons.Don't you get it t8? Paul was warning the Corinthian church to be wary of the trappings of paganism. First century Corinth was inundated with polytheistic pagans. It's their “Lords and gods” that he was referring to in 1 Cor 8:5!!
Quote (t8 @ Mar. 09 2007,03:22) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 08 2007,23:12) So there are two possibilities:
1) There is one God
2) There are many godsHere is Paul's answer:
1 Corinthians 8:5
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),This is the one I hold to and I am sure Nick believes this too.
Oh! I forgot to quote the next verse:1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.So there are many gods, but for us there is one true God that all (good) originates. Even other gods/angels come from him. Excluding false gods of course.
Blessings.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Mar. 09 2007,03:51) Don't you get it t8? Paul was warning the Corinthian church to be wary of the trappings of paganism. First century Corinth was inundated with polytheistic pagans. It's their “Lords and gods” that he was referring to in 1 Cor 8:5!!
We must have posted around the same time.Paul says: there is one God the Father. (I say this too)
You say: there is one God the Father, Son, Holy Spirit.So if you think Paul was warning against Polytheistic pagans then why is your belief different to Paul's.
Perhaps you are the Polytheistic guy.
Maybe if you remove the log from your eye…
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
