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Perhaps these words don't apply to you Nick, and you should live by your own words, but to me it was said:
“yes, you can call me Paul if you like, I'm fine with that.”–Paul
Quote (942767 @ Jan. 27 2007,06:23) Hi All: There are some diseases that are contagious, and so I do believe that Jesus was subject to get sick just as we all are, and by his faith, if he did get sick, he could ask God for healing just as we can when we get sick.
My understanding of the scripture that states that “whatever is not of faith is sin” is that if you do something that you believe is contrary to the word of God then it is sin to you whereas it may not be sin to someone who believes differently–i.e eating pork.
God Bless
Hi 9,Also, there was Job. He was put through much suffering simply for loving God and being righteous. Didn't Satan try a similar thing with Jesus albeit using different tactics by way of his desires?
The purpose? That either Job or Jesus should fall from righteousness and sin against God, no?
Thus at least in Job's case, as in the blind man of John 9, personal sin could not account for their health problems.
Quote (music4two @ Jan. 27 2007,08:13) Quote (Cubes @ Jan. 26 2007,23:54) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 27 2007,04:00) Quote (music4two @ Jan. 26 2007,04:13) One more point – whatever is not of faith is sin. I do not believe Jesus had a lack of faith for his own health and i know he did not sin. therefore i do not believe he was ever sick.:)
Hi m42,
Is sickness due to lack of faith then??
hmmm
Hi Nick and M42,I agree w/ you, Nick.
John 9:1 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. 2 And His disciples asked Him, saying, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3 Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. 4 I* must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. 5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”Being born blind is not “shalom” so may be considered as a form of defect in health as I am sure the man was glad to see the natural world. Thus it was a blessing for him to be healed. Yet, his blindness was not due to any sin relating to himself or his parents.
Also, Jesus knew hunger and sorrow which is a big part of the condition of fallen man. It would seem to me that for Jesus to be as one of us in order to be acquainted with our troubles, he'd have to have experienced pain too among other things.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Amen!
So do you believe that Adam and Eve did not feel hunger prior to the fall? I wonder why they had to eat or why God directed them to eat of specific trees in the Garden.
Hi M42,I could be wrong, but I believe that there is hunger and there is hunger, such as in instances of famine and starvation vs just feeling hungry because it's about that time for lunch, or feeling like having a delicious snack of some sort.
One thing denotes a sense of severe suffering whereas the other speaks to a sense of well being and abundance. No, I don't believe Adam and Eve were in want or suffering before the fall. I believe that it is that suffering that Revelation promises to bring an end to and/or whatever good thing it is that we hunger and ache for, e.g. righteousness (the beatitudes).
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2007,01:13) t8 And there you go again attaking my relationship with God!
You say….
QuoteIf you were of the truth, you wouldn't need to resort to this tactic. You would only need to quote and teach scripture.
I am of the truth and I do quote and teach scripture.
An attack on your relationship with God?I just stated a fact. It's up to you to see if what I say is true and if so, then turn away from such behaviour.
When someone takes your words and makes them or twists them out of context, then there is nothing wrong with pointing that out, is there?
It might help you to be more optimistic in future when reading writings from myself and others.
If we start with a bias, then it is tempting to resort to tactics that demean other writings and make them say that which was not intended. But such conduct is not profitable.
This is simply what I was pointing out. This and the fact that scripture is the best answer, rather than demeaning someones writing with an opinion.
If scripture is used to show up something that is not true, I am sure that it will have an impact depending on how true the hearer is. But dragging down another persons writing to something that was not intended is not profitable in the Kingdom of God.
I am curious. How many on this board will claim to be members of the Watchtower or attend a Kingdom Hall?
Hi,
Doctrinal discussions test men.
God is used to being opposed and insulted but we must be not found among them who do these things.
It has no effect on God however men view Him but it does matter in terms of how He views them and how they can relate to Him.
If your view of God is not able to be proven from scriptural teaching then you must check it and be silent before God until your teaching aligns with His.
Fear of God demands we are very careful not to teach what He does not teach as teachers are tested to a higher standard.
Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness before teaching in His Name.
Assume all men are liars, drink from your own cistern and abide in the Word.Hi,
Only if you have accepted the trinity speculation could be true do you have to turn your attention to finding possible underlying scriptural support for it.
Thus we have threads on coequality, the deity of Jesus, the Spirit being a person and other efforts to show three in one.
All this folly is based on the first lie which we should not try to justify.
We should stop being fascinated with theoretical possibilities and concentrate on learning from the mouth of God.
The rest is of foolish man.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 28 2007,20:24) Hi,
Doctrinal discussions test men.
God is used to being opposed and insulted but we must be not found among them who do these things.
It has no effect on God however men view Him but it does matter in terms of how He views them and how they can relate to Him.
If your view of God is not able to be proven from scriptural teaching then you must check it and be silent before God until your teaching aligns with His.
Fear of God demands we are very careful not to teach what He does not teach as teachers are tested to a higher standard.
Seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness before teaching in His Name.
Assume all men are liars, drink from your own cistern and abide in the Word.
Nick,
I am not sure if you were having a bad day or what but, to me, this post certainly threw up some red flags about your attitude toward your brethren.Tell me what part of loving your neighbor as yourself includes assuming all men to be liars. This smacks of a very questionable outlook toward your brethren.
God judges by the heart and not by doctrine. Even those with messed doctrine can love God in their heart. God is love. That is His nature and it does not change. God does not stop loving someone no matter how confused or wrong they are in doctrine. To say God’s attitude changes toward someone dependent on their doctrine is misrepresenting His character. Be carefull my friend, this is what the Hebrews considered taking
God’s name in vain!Without an agreed upon system of proper scriptural interpretation anyone can claim their concepts are right. Some will accept a system of hermaneutics, only to reject it later if proper interpretation threatens their pet doctrine.
Teaching? The kind of “teaching” that is prevelent on this site is nothing more then data exchange. Little or nothing is really accomplished here because little or nothing really effects the heart. No one is interested in discussing or pursueing the functionality of how their teaching changes people’s lives. Most are only interested in how much data (honest or dishonest) they can spew out to prove their pet doctrine.
When most, on here, are ask to show in what way their doctrine helps a person to become like Christ, they clam up.
If a teacher cannot show how their teaching changes peoples lives and helps them to become like Christ, then they are false teachers with false doctrine.
Hi m42,
Grace alone changes men, by the Spirit.
Those who are of the Spirit speak the words of God.
Only the Spirit of truth is reliable while all men can be found to be liars.Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.Hi m42,
I am not saying all men are liars but their words must all be tested against truth.
Most of the doctrinal problems are from the tendency of men to seek shelter in a crowd and to elevate and follow each other.
There are many claiming to be brethren but they are not manifesting the Spirit of truth, abiding in scripture, but rather the words of men.
We should not assume all who believe are brethren as even demons believe.
But we should always encourage each other to be properly founded and to build of strong true materials so we can walk together.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2007,02:28) Only the Spirit of truth is reliable while all men can be found to be liars.
Is this the truth or a lie?Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2007,02:45) There are many claiming to be brethren but they are not manifesting the Spirit of truth, abiding in scripture, but rather the words of men.
Are these the words of a man?Hi Is 1.18
2Peter 1
” 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
Are these the words of a man?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2007,03:39) Hi Is 1.18,
Did Jesus speak the truth of himself or of the Spirit of truth within him?
Well…both, I suppose. Not sure of the relevance of this though. I was just pointing out that by writing “Only the Spirit of truth is reliable while all men can be found to be liars.” you effectively invalidated your own statement and at the same time cast doubt on the veracity of everything you have ever written. If “all men” are liars, that would naturally include yourself NH….Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2007,03:43) Hi Is 1.18 2Peter 1
” 19We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.”
Are these the words of a man?
Yes. So by your rationale we should doubt them?Hi Is 1.18,
I do not mind being found a liar.
But the clean vessels of Christ and the disciples perfectly expressed the teachings of God.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 29 2007,04:46) Hi Is 1.18,
I do not mind being found a liar.
But the clean vessels of Christ and the disciples perfectly expressed the teachings of God.
Again you are dependent upon interpreting the scriptures correctly. How do you propose we do that? Furthermore, what is I do not agree with your interpretation process?
Unfortunately what you end up with is every mans private interpretaion based on my own principles.
That is why the test of functionality is the only one that is eliable because it tests not the method in which we determine doctrine but rather the usefullness of the doctrine itself. In otherwords judging it by it's fruits.
In most cases a little common sence and reasonability will suffice. Unfortunately it has been my experiance that many on these types of boards ae hyper-doctrinal and do not wish to be reasonable. Mores the pity!
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