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Quote Though I have not posted in a while, I still read the posts from time to time. I am astounded at the dishonesty among those on this board that claim Christianity. Even though the term “word” Logos (Gr) has been explained time and again there are those that refuse the truth.
Well over 200 times the term Logos is used in the New Testament and yet in a few scriptures in John and a couple in Revelation, there are those that come up with a definition of the term different then all the rest of scripture. How honest is that?
Many on this board have proven that they are not interested in Bible truth, but rather are only interested in proving their preconcieved ideas of doctrine. Their scholarship is a Joke!Joke 1 – They start study already having a preconcieved idea of the findings and look for proof of their concepts rather then the truth.
Joke 2 – They read an English translation of the verses in question and see supposed support for their doctrine and stop right there. They do not go farther because they are not interested in truth, but only doctrinal proof.
Joke 3 – When they find supposed proof in a few scriptures they ignor the rest of scripture and concentrate only on those they can use.
Joke 4 – They ignor the fact that the writers of scripture were Hebrew and had a different mindset in the way they think and write. Instead they filter scripture through a western thinking frame of mind.
Joke 5 – They ignor clear deffinitions of words and instead choose made up meanings that support their doctrine.
Joke 6 – They see the term “Word” capitalised and assume this signifies it is Jesus. Not taking into account that the original Greek text was written in all capital letters and the punctuation in our English versions is a illusion.From the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
The commonest term in the Old Testament for “word” is dabhar (also “matter” “thing”); in the New Testament logos (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); but also frequently rhema. Rhema is a “word” in itself considered; logos is a spoken word, with reference generally to that which is in the speaker's mind.
In the Greek –
of speech
a. a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
b. what someone has said
1. a word
2. the sayings of God
3. decree, mandate or order
4. of the moral precepts given by God
5. Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
6. what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
c. discourse
1. the act of speaking, speech
2. the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
3. a kind or style of speaking
4. a continuous speaking discourse – instruction
d. doctrine, teaching
e. anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
f. matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
g. the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2. its use as respect to the MIND alone
a. reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
b. account, i.e. regard, consideration
c. account, i.e. reckoning, score
d. account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
e. relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
1. reason would
f. reason, cause, ground
3. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.
— Notice a clear switch in part 3 from the literal definition of Logos of a statement or plan to a person of the Godhead. Even the Trinitarian teachers have to be dishonest to accomodate their doctrine. They point out that “In John” it means the second person of the Trinity, discounting the rest of scriptural use of the word. They ignor the correct historical usage of the term because it sheds a different light then the made up meanings they prefer. —
For the last time – The name Jesus cannot honestly be substituted for the term Logos (word)
Is Jesus literally the Logos? No!
The Logos is the blueprint. Jesus is the building.
He is the fullfillment of God’s plan and purpose.M42
Study your Biblical history. When John and the other Apostles were writng the scriptures, Gnostosism had crept into the Church.
The brief desciption below shows that for John to use the word “Logos” in describing the pre-existant Lord Jesus, was a good choice.
Gnostosism
Gnostics regarded nature and the material world as flawed, corrupt, if not downright evil.
They claimed that the natural world was created by a lesser deity, the Demiurge, not the true God who dwells in another realm outside space and time.
The human soul, originating as a divine spark in the higher world, finds itself fallen captive to matter, exiled in the realm of the senses. Spiritual development means extricating oneself from enmeshment with matter and returning to the Source, the Light of God.
Gnosis is the recognition of the presence of the Higher Self, the spark of Divinity trapped in matter, but only an elite few can realize this awareness and liberate themselves from blind enslavement to this world.
The Apostle is wanting to make sure that those in his day understood that Jesus pre-existed his birth, and since John calls the Word God, he is plainly establishing the personification of the Logos.If John wanted to show the pre-existant Jesus as the Son, (of course he wasnt a Son untill he was born), John 1:1 would have read like this…
In the beginning was the Son and the Son was with God and the Son was God!
If John held an Arian view then that is how he would have wrote it.
Fact, for whatever reason John chose the word Logos to represent the pre-existant Jesus as God.
You say…
Quote Joke 3 – When they find supposed proof in a few scriptures they ignor the rest of scripture and concentrate only on those they can use. Why do you ignore the following…
John clarifies the personification of the Logos.
I Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Can you see or handle or touch a “(“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”?
Jesus is and was more than a simple blueprint in the Fathers mind.
As it shows above he **Is** the Eternal life that was with the Father.
No beginning and no end.
There is no scriptural evidence that the Logos had a beginning!
Explain the above scripture and show me a scripture that says the Logos had a beginning.
Give me a scripture that says that the Logos is a thought or plan of God!
Othereise you should follow the words that you post.
Quote Joke 1 – They start study already having a preconcieved idea of the findings and look for proof of their concepts rather then the truth.
Joke 2 – They read an English translation of the verses in question and see supposed support for their doctrine and stop right there. They do not go farther because they are not interested in truth, but only doctrinal proof.
Joke 3 – When they find supposed proof in a few scriptures they ignor the rest of scripture and concentrate only on those they can use.
Joke 4 – They ignor the fact that the writers of scripture were Hebrew and had a different mindset in the way they think and write. Instead they filter scripture through a western thinking frame of mind.
Joke 5 – They ignor clear deffinitions of words and instead choose made up meanings that support their doctrine.
Joke 6 – They see the term “Word” capitalised and assume this signifies it is Jesus. Not taking into account that the original Greek text was written in all capital letters and the punctuation in our English versions is a illusion.
This is your definition of Logo…(“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”);
Here is your interpretation of the scriptures using this definition…
Jn1:
1 In the beginning was the “reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); , and the (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was with God, and the (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”);was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); and without (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”);was not any thing made that was made.
4 In (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was in the world, and the world was made by (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); , and the world knew (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); not.
11 (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); came unto his own, and his own received (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); not.
12 But as many as received (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); , and cried, saying, This was (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); of whom I spake, (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); that cometh after me is preferred before me: for (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was before me.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 16 2007,22:24) Quote Though I have not posted in a while, I still read the posts from time to time. I am astounded at the dishonesty among those on this board that claim Christianity. Even though the term “word” Logos (Gr) has been explained time and again there are those that refuse the truth.
Well over 200 times the term Logos is used in the New Testament and yet in a few scriptures in John and a couple in Revelation, there are those that come up with a definition of the term different then all the rest of scripture. How honest is that?
Many on this board have proven that they are not interested in Bible truth, but rather are only interested in proving their preconcieved ideas of doctrine. Their scholarship is a Joke!Joke 1 – They start study already having a preconcieved idea of the findings and look for proof of their concepts rather then the truth.
Joke 2 – They read an English translation of the verses in question and see supposed support for their doctrine and stop right there. They do not go farther because they are not interested in truth, but only doctrinal proof.
Joke 3 – When they find supposed proof in a few scriptures they ignor the rest of scripture and concentrate only on those they can use.
Joke 4 – They ignor the fact that the writers of scripture were Hebrew and had a different mindset in the way they think and write. Instead they filter scripture through a western thinking frame of mind.
Joke 5 – They ignor clear deffinitions of words and instead choose made up meanings that support their doctrine.
Joke 6 – They see the term “Word” capitalised and assume this signifies it is Jesus. Not taking into account that the original Greek text was written in all capital letters and the punctuation in our English versions is a illusion.From the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia
The commonest term in the Old Testament for “word” is dabhar (also “matter” “thing”); in the New Testament logos (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); but also frequently rhema. Rhema is a “word” in itself considered; logos is a spoken word, with reference generally to that which is in the speaker's mind.
In the Greek –
of speech
a. a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
b. what someone has said
1. a word
2. the sayings of God
3. decree, mandate or order
4. of the moral precepts given by God
5. Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
6. what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
c. discourse
1. the act of speaking, speech
2. the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
3. a kind or style of speaking
4. a continuous speaking discourse – instruction
d. doctrine, teaching
e. anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
f. matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
g. the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2. its use as respect to the MIND alone
a. reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
b. account, i.e. regard, consideration
c. account, i.e. reckoning, score
d. account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
e. relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
1. reason would
f. reason, cause, ground
3. In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.
— Notice a clear switch in part 3 from the literal definition of Logos of a statement or plan to a person of the Godhead. Even the Trinitarian teachers have to be dishonest to accomodate their doctrine. They point out that “In John” it means the second person of the Trinity, discounting the rest of scriptural use of the word. They ignor the correct historical usage of the term because it sheds a different light then the made up meanings they prefer. —
For the last time – The name Jesus cannot honestly be substituted for the term Logos (word)
Is Jesus literally the Logos? No!
The Logos is the blueprint. Jesus is the building.
He is the fullfillment of God’s plan and purpose.M42
Study your Biblical history. When John and the other Apostles were writng the scriptures, Gnostosism had crept into the Church.
The brief desciption below shows that for John to use the word “Logos” in describing the pre-existant Lord Jesus, was a good choice.
Gnostosism
Gnostics regarded nature and the material world as flawed, corrupt, if not downright evil.
They claimed that the natural world was created by a lesser deity, the Demiurge, not the true God who dwells in another realm outside space and time.
The human soul, originating as a divine spark in the higher world, finds itself fallen captive to matter, exiled in the realm of the senses. Spiritual development means extricating oneself from enmeshment with matter and returning to the Source, the Light of God.
Gnosis is the recognition of the presence of the Higher Self, the spark of Divinity trapped in matter, but only an elite few can realize this awareness and liberate themselves from blind enslavement to this world.
The Apostle is wanting to make sure that those in his day understood that Jesus pre-existed his birth, and since John calls the Word God, he is plainly establishing the personification of the Logos.If John wanted to show the pre-existant Jesus as the Son, (of course he wasnt a Son untill he was born), John 1:1 would have read like this…
In the beginning was the Son and the Son was with God and the Son was God!
If John held an Arian view then that is how he would have wrote it.
Fact, for whatever reason John chose the word Logos to represent the pre-existant Jesus as God.
You say…
Quote Joke 3 – When they find supposed proof in a few scriptures they ignor the rest of scripture and concentrate only on those they can use. Why do you ignore the following…
John clarifies the personification of the Logos.
I Jn 1:
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
Can you see or handle or touch a “(“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”?
Jesus is and was more than a simple blueprint in the Fathers mind.
As it shows above he **Is** the Eternal life that was with the Father.
No beginning and no end.
There is no scriptural evidence that the Logos had a beginning!
Explain the above scripture and show me a scripture that say
s the Logos had a beginning.Give me a scripture that says that the Logos is a thought or plan of God!
Othereise you should follow the words that you post.
Quote Joke 1 – They start study already having a preconcieved idea of the findings and look for proof of their concepts rather then the truth.
Joke 2 – They read an English translation of the verses in question and see supposed support for their doctrine and stop right there. They do not go farther because they are not interested in truth, but only doctrinal proof.
Joke 3 – When they find supposed proof in a few scriptures they ignor the rest of scripture and concentrate only on those they can use.
Joke 4 – They ignor the fact that the writers of scripture were Hebrew and had a different mindset in the way they think and write. Instead they filter scripture through a western thinking frame of mind.
Joke 5 – They ignor clear deffinitions of words and instead choose made up meanings that support their doctrine.
Joke 6 – They see the term “Word” capitalised and assume this signifies it is Jesus. Not taking into account that the original Greek text was written in all capital letters and the punctuation in our English versions is a illusion.This is your definition of Logo…(“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”);
Here is your interpretation of the scriptures using this definition…
Jn1:
1 In the beginning was the “reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); , and the (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was with God, and the (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”);was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); and without (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”);was not any thing made that was made.
4 In (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was in the world, and the world was made by (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); , and the world knew (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); not.
11 (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); came unto his own, and his own received (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); not.
12 But as many as received (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15 John bare witness of (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); , and cried, saying, This was (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); of whom I spake, (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); that cometh after me is preferred before me: for (“reason,” “discourse,” “speech”); was before me.
How very funny!!!!!!
Thanks for the entertainment. How appropriate that a trinitarian brings up the Gnostics since it was the gnostic philosophy that was one of the primary ingrediants of the Trinity. Because the gnostics could not accept that Jesus could be of the lower earthly realm, they invented concepts such as A God that became a man and A God dwelling in an empty shell of humanity.
Now there is a Joke for you!!!Quote How very funny!!!!!!
Thanks for the entertainment. How appropriate that a trinitarian brings up the Gnostics since it was the gnostic philosophy that was one of the primary ingrediants of the Trinity. Because the gnostics could not accept that Jesus could be of the lower earthly realm, they invented concepts such as A God that became a man and A God dwelling in an empty shell of humanity.
Now there is a Joke for you!!!Same Ole Arianistic response!
The word was made flesh……………..hello thus son of God. little hug big kiss big hug little kissxoxxoxxoooo
Quote Because the gnostics could not accept that Jesus could be of the lower earthly realm, they invented concepts such as A God that became a man and A God dwelling in an empty shell of humanity. M42
Definatly not a trinitarian view!
Quote Because the gnostics could not accept that Jesus could be of the lower earthly realm, they invented concepts such as A God that became a man and A God dwelling in an empty shell of humanity. Dont forget that the Apostle John by the Holy Spirit wrote Jn 1:1.
M42
There is no scriptural evidence that the Logos had a beginning!
Show me a scripture that says the Logos had a beginning.
Give me a scripture that says that the Logos is a thought or plan of God!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 17 2007,01:18) M42 There is no scriptural evidence that the Logos had a beginning!
Show me a scripture that says the Logos had a beginning.
Give me a scripture that says that the Logos is a thought or plan of God!
First I must appologise ofr having chimed in again. I know I am wasting my time. It remindes me of the times Moonies used to come to my door. With that in mind I will get bacl off here again. I am thankfull that the Trinitarian and Jehovah witness’ are wasting time on here. This keeps them in a fruitless enterprise and from teaching their garbage to others.Give you a scripture that shows Logos as being the plan or thought of God?
Since the word Logos is defined as the thoughts expresed ideas, intentions or motives, every times scripture says the Logos of Gos it means exactly that!!!!! Of course for you, your doctrine supersedes anything scripture says. So you can change the meaning at will to support your doctrine.I am not saying the Logos had a beginning. In fact, I believe the motives, intentions, expression, plan and statement of God was with Him from the beginning.
The problem is that you refuse to accept the true meaning of Logos but rather use a made up one to support your doctrine.I have already given the definition of Logos several times but your doctrinal brainwashing just smiles on and ignors it.
The following verses show a clear distinction between the testimony of Jesus and the Logos of God.
Revelation 1:2 and 9
Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.9I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.You further continue to attempt to understand scripture from a Greek thinking mindset. You do not take into consideration the Hebrew way of seeing things from a functional or relational mindset. You see the scriptures calling Jesus as the exact representation of God and assume from a Greek standpoint that this proves Jesus is God rather then see it as the Hebrews, Jesus being the exact functional image of the character of God shown forth in a Human being. this reveals the functional and relational concepts by which the Hebrews thought.
Hebrews 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:The transliterated word for expression and image is character.
the instrument used for engraving or carving
2.the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
a.a mark or figure burned in (Lev. 13:
3.or stamped on, an impression
1.the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimileWORD —
of speech
a.a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
b.what someone has said
1.a word
2.the sayings of God
3.decree, mandate or order
4.of the moral precepts given by God
5.Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
6.what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim
c.discourse
1.the act of speaking, speech
2.the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
3.a kind or style of speaking
4.a continuous speaking discourse – instruction
d.doctrine, teaching
e.anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
f.matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
g.the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed
2.its use as respect to the MIND alone
a.reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
b.account, i.e. regard, consideration
c.account, i.e. reckoning, score
d.account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
e.relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation
1.reason would
f.reason, cause, ground3.In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.
A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 B.C. to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe. This word was well suited to John's purpose in John 1.—–NOTICE THAT OVER 250 TIMES THE WORD LOGOS IS TRANSLATED AND USED AS A STATEMENT, SPEACH OR EXPRESSED IDEA AND YET IN A FEW VERSES IN JOHN AND A FEW OTHERS, TRINITARIANS CHANGE THE MEANING COMPLETELY. BY WHAT AUTHORITY DO THEY REFUSE TO USE THE SAME MEANING. BY THE AUTHORITY OF THEIR DOCTRINE. THEY MAKE TRUE ACCEPTED SCRIPTURAL MEANINGS BOW DOWN TO THE POWER OF THEIR DOCTRINE. THEY TRANSLATE SCRIPTURE THROUGH THEIR DOCTRINE. ——————————————————————-
This is the beginning of one of the prayers Jesus prayed.
Joh 17:1 Jesus spoke these words and lifted up His eyes to Heaven and said, Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son so that Your Son also may glorify You,
Joh 17:2 even as You have given Him authority over all flesh so that He should give eternal life to all You have given Him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified You upon the earth. I have finished the work which You have given Me to do.
Joh 17:5 And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself with the glory which I had with You before the world was.Before the world was, Jesus was the Word of God. He was with God and was God according to John 1.
He is still the Word of God today and will be for all time.
Rev 19:12 And His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head many crowns. And He had a name written, one that no one knew except Himself.
Rev 19:13 And He had been clothed in a garment dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.Hi Oxy,
That same Word could have sought equality with God but wisely chose rather to submit to him according to Phil 2, so that being WITH God was a fact and his divine status was not IN GOD.Otherwise in which way could a part of God be equal with God-that is a nonsense?
Hi,
Many people get frustrated that they are unable to convince us that the trinity derivation is truth. We serve a Master who demands we abide in the Word. We are responsible to him for the work that we do and the seeds that we sow.
Trinity is not found in the Word of God so we cannot accept it as truth nor can we sow those seeds for any profit for our Master. Indeed since it is not found in the wisdom of God, then to sow them would be rebellion and endanger our secured place in his kingdom.Quote Give you a scripture that shows Logos as being the plan or thought of God?
Since the word Logos is defined as the thoughts expresed ideas, intentions or motives, every times scripture says the Logos of Gos it means exactly that!!!!! Of course for you, your doctrine supersedes anything scripture says. So you can change the meaning at will to support your doctrine.M42
What foolishnes to think the “thoughts expresed ideas, intentions or motives,” Could create all things!
Jn 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Not to mention your total denial of the pronouns John used in referring to the Word! Quote First I must appologise ofr having chimed in again. I know I am wasting my time. It remindes me of the times Moonies used to come to my door. With that in mind I will get bacl off here again. I am thankfull that the Trinitarian and Jehovah witness’ are wasting time on here. This keeps them in a fruitless enterprise and from teaching their garbage to others. m42
Looks like you are wasting you time here, this forum dosnt even hold your views about the Word.
Quote Hi Oxy,
That same Word could have sought equality with God but wisely chose rather to submit to him according to Phil 2, so that being WITH God was a fact and his divine status was not IN GOD.Otherwise in which way could a part of God be equal with God-that is a nonsense?
Unscriptural.
At no time does the scripture indicate the Word/Jesus ceased to be the Word/God.
Lies!
NH
Quote Hi M42,
The Word was with God AS WRITTEN, or as you prefer, in UNION WITH GOD?It also says that the Word was God. Joh 1:1
Joh 1:14 And the Word (Jesus) was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 17 2007,20:55) At no time does the scripture indicate the Word/Jesus ceased to be the Word/God.
True. Revelation 19:13 also testifies to this….Revelation 19:11-13
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war. 12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself. 13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word (Gr. Logos) of God.
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