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Jesus tells us who he is
the Word of God
the Word of the Lord
the glory of the Lord
the presence of the Lord
the angel of the covenant
the angel of great councilJesus is the Angel of the Lord!!!
16 “I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.”
(btw mornigstar is another name for angel)
See Paul understood
I CORINTHIANS 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 3 all ate the same spiritual food, 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. (NKJV)
Here is Jesus following them.
19 Then the angel of God, who had been traveling in front of Israel's army, withdrew and went behind them. The pillar of cloud also moved from in front and stood behind them, 20 coming between the armies of Egypt and Israel. Throughout the night the cloud brought darkness to the one side and light to the other side; so neither went near the other all night long.
Here Moses meets Jesus for the first time
ACTS 7:35 “This Moses whom they rejected, saying, 'Who made you a ruler and a judge?' is the one God sent to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the Angel who appeared to him in the bush.
A little later in their dialogue, Moses asked the Angel in the burning bush what he should tell the children of Israel when they asked him the name of the God that sent him to them:
EXODUS 3:14 And God ['elohim] said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.' ”
Here we see why Jesus is Lord
ACTS 7:35 “This Moses whom they rejected, saying, 'Who made you a ruler and a judge?' is the one God sent to be a ruler and a deliverer by the hand of the Angel who appeared to him in the bush.
A little later in their dialogue, Moses asked the Angel in the burning bush what he should tell the children of Israel when they asked him the name of the God that sent him to them:
EXODUS 3:14 And God ['elohim] said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.' ”
Exedous 23:20-21
20 “Behold, I send an Angel before you to keep you in the way and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. 21 Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him.John 17:6
6″I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.John 17:11
11″I am no longer in the world; and yet they themselves are in the world, and I come to You Holy Father, keep them in Your name, the name which You have given Me, that they may be one even as We are.Philippians 2:9
9(A)For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,Here the Angel of the Lord comes to earth as Messiah
Philippians 2:6,7
“Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.”Colossians 1:15
15He is the image of the invisible GodJohn 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son,[a] who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.Jesus was very busy in the Old Testament
Hi Morningstar
Nice Name
This also?
Jdg 2:1 ¶ And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
Jdg 2:2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?
Jdg 2:3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be [as thorns] in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
Jdg 2:4 And it came to pass, when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.charity
Hi MS,
Welcome.
Jesus is above all the angels, though he became, like we are born, less than them for a time.
In fact all the creation of God, including the angels and archangels, came through him.
He is the mighty glorious Monogenes Son of God, the firstborn son, the prince of princes.
Do not join the rush to develop your own imagined and fantastical speculation.
Revelation is truth and revelation does not say he was ever an angel messenger.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2007,08:55) Hi MS,
Welcome.
Jesus is above all the angels, though he became, like us, less than them for a time.
In fact all the creation of God, including the angels and archangels, came through him.
He is the mighty glorious Monogenes Son of God, the firstborn son, the prince of princes.
I agree.The angel of the Lord is exactly that.
Hi MS,
Problem.
He is never called an angel.
The rest is popular speculation.
Paul said we should pull down speculationsQuote (charity @ Jan. 09 2007,08:54) Hi Morningstar Nice Name
This also?
Jdg 2:1 ¶ And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.
Jdg 2:2 And ye shall make no league with the inhabitants of this land; ye shall throw down their altars: but ye have not obeyed my voice: why have ye done this?
Jdg 2:3 Wherefore I also said, I will not drive them out from before you; but they shall be [as thorns] in your sides, and their gods shall be a snare unto you.
Jdg 2:4 And it came to pass, when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.charity
Yes, there is Jesus too.Just as Jesus said “He was written about by Moses and all the prophets!”
Hi MS,
Can we pick and choose where Jesus appeared or should we ask someone like you?
How can Jesus claim to be just liike us if he had a head start and a preview of life?
Would that be fair?
Could we follow him without such an imagined advantage.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2007,08:59) Hi MS,
Problem.
He is never called an angel.
The rest is popular speculation.
Paul said we should pull down speculations
Galatians 4:14
14and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.Revelation 22:16
16″I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”Hebrews 1:9
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”This is a very key verse here:
Hebrews 2:16-17
16For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the peopleThe above verse clearly shows that Jesus could not remain angelic (because he doesn't help the angels) he had to be made like man.
Phillipians 2:6-8
6who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.I am just telling you what the scriptures say. I am not going to use philosophy to decide if God's decisions were fair. I trust him.
1 Corinthians
18For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19For it is written,“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”20Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.
Hi Nick if the truth be searched and found it all about heading backwards to those things which were in the beginning
It takes time to explan patience is required and adding
charity
Quote (Morningstar @ Jan. 09 2007,09:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 09 2007,08:59) Hi MS,
Problem.
He is never called an angel.
The rest is popular speculation.
Paul said we should pull down speculations
Galatians 4:14
14and though my condition was a trial to you, you did not scorn or despise me, but received me as an angel of God, as Christ Jesus.Revelation 22:16
16″I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”Hebrews 1:9
9You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has anointed you
with the oil of gladness beyond your companions.”This is a very key verse here:
Hebrews 2:16-17
16For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. 17Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the peopleThe above verse clearly shows that Jesus could not remain angelic (because he doesn't help the angels) he had to be made like man.
Phillipians 2:6-8
6who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
HI MS,
WOOPSIE.
A couple of large leaps of faith there that seem more like presumptive speculation.He does not help the angels.
That does not say he is or ever was an angel.
None of the verses you show say anything about any hint of him having angelic nature but scripture shows instead in Phil 2 and Jn 1 that his origins were divine as the begotten image of God, who was with God.
Angels do not get a second chance but await judgement.
We are so weak and God is so merciful, and so men do, through the man from heaven.
Angels cannot save us.
There is salvation in no name under heaven than that of the SON of GOD.Quote (charity @ Jan. 09 2007,09:10) Hi Nick if the truth be searched and found it all about heading backwards to those things which were in the beginning It takes time to explan patience is required and adding
charity
Trinitarians often understand Jesus to be the angel of the Lord yet they can't grasp that Jesus actually was an angel a son of God, the preeminent firstborn son.God put his name in him
Jesus is Lord. YHWH means Lord.
Meaning YHWH is in Jesus's name.
Hi MS,
YHWH actually means “I am who am”.
He is the LIVING GOD and Lord of all.
He gave for the SON to be Lord and the source of life for those who follow the man from heaven.Of course, Nick:
The angel of the Lord is known as:
The Presence
The Face
The GlorySounds alot like the image of the invisible God.
Another pair of Scriptures further identifies the Angel of the LORD as the Messiah.
Recorded in Judges 13 is the story of Samson's parents being notified of his impending birth by the Angel of the LORD. Manoah, Samson's father, did not realize that the one who foretold the birth of his son was the Angel (Judges 13:16).
He asked the Angel of the LORD what his name was, so that they might honor him when his prophecy came true. The Angel's answer is very revealing, if understood correctly:
JUDGES 13:18 And the Angel of Jehovah said to him, Why do you ask this about My name? Yea, it is Wonderful. (A Literal Translation of the Bible)
The Angel of YHVH answered Manoah by saying that his name was “Wonderful.” When we compare the Angel's answer to the prophecy of the coming Messiah recorded in Isaiah 9:6, the similarities are striking:
ISAIAH 9:6 For unto us a Child is born, unto us a Son is given; and the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. (NKJV)
The name the Angel gave Manoah is one of the names prophesied to be applied to Yeshua the Messiah. By itself, this could simply be discounted as a coincidence. However, when considered with the weight of the other evidence we've examined, it's clear that the Angel of the LORD is the one who became Christ.
In the first century C.E., the Greek translation of the Old Testament known as the Septuagint (LXX) was widely used by Greek-speaking Jews. In the LXX, this same verse is rendered somewhat differently:
ISAIAH 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger [aggelos] of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. (Brenton's LXX)
Hi MS,
Striking similarities have drawn many to make wrong conclusions.
Scriptural facts are reliable truth.Quote (Morningstar @ Jan. 09 2007,09:18) Quote (charity @ Jan. 09 2007,09:10) Hi Nick if the truth be searched and found it all about heading backwards to those things which were in the beginning It takes time to explan patience is required and adding
charity
Trinitarians often understand Jesus to be the angel of the Lord yet they can't grasp that Jesus actually was an angel a son of God, the preeminent firstborn son.God put his name in him
Jesus is Lord. YHWH means Lord.
Meaning YHWH is in Jesus's name.
Thankyou morningstarI do hear you
I am prepared to listen along concerning this matter
charity
Jesus said those who searched the writings of Moses and the Prophets should be able to find him.
I have far to much evidence not to believe Jesus was the angel of the Lord.
Angels are sons of God
Jesus is The son of God
The angel of the Lord is The Word of the Lord
Jesus is The Word of God
Jesus says nobody as ever seen God it was him whom revealed him.
The angel of the Lord revealed God throughout the OT.
Quote (Morningstar @ Jan. 09 2007,09:26) Jesus said those who searched the writings of Moses and the Prophets should be able to find him. I have far to much evidence not to believe Jesus was the angel of the Lord.
Agree working backwards to find the secrets with the fathersRev 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
Isa 22:22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
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