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Quote Deuternomy 32:8-9 addresses that point.
8When the Most High (EL THE FATHER) gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders[a] of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
9But the LORD's (YHWH THE SON) portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.Mercy
Deut 32
6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.
8 When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
9 For the LORD's portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.I think you are trying to read into it to much.
The words used for most high is “'elyown” which means…
1) high, upper
a) of Davidic king exalted above monarchs
2) Highest, Most High
a) name of God
b) of rulers, either monarchs or angel-princes
The word for Lord is “Y@hovah” which means..
Jehovah = “the existing One”
1) the proper name of the one true God
I dont see any Father or son in these verses.
In fact if you look at the context in vrs 6…
Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? is not he thy father that hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?
The word for Lord is the same as the Lord in vs 9. Vs 6 calls the Lord “Y@hovah” Father.
YHWH is the Father who bought them, made them and established them.
However, YHWH, in this view, is not the Most High, rather the preminent son of EL.
WJ,
So you believe that Jesus is both fully God and Fully man at the same time? while he was on Earth?Can you then answer the confusion of how such attributes as failability for man and infailability for God can exist in one being?
Quote YHWH is the Father who bought them, made them and established them. However, YHWH, in this view, is not the Most High, rather the preminent son of EL.
Mercy
Sorry I dont read that into those scriptures! Maybe you have some other evidence that The Father God had A Begotten Son before Jesus was born.
Sorry I guess I am not really following you:
I am just asking if you believe that El and YHWH are the same being?
I know you believe Jesus is YHWH but do you believe that YHWH is El?
Quote WJ,
So you believe that Jesus is both fully God and Fully man at the same time? while he was on Earth?Can you then answer the confusion of how such attributes as failability for man and infailability for God can exist in one being?
M42
Its simple.
Jn 1:
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Heb 10:
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.Phil 2:
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Jesus emptied himself of his claim as God so he could do the will of the Father.
He did not stop being God, but left all of his glory and power and authority to humble himself as a man and become a servant dependant on God the Father.
As you and I are to be dependant on the Father so was Jesus.
“Let this mind be in you”.
In this way Jesus could be a Faithfull High Priest in all things having to do with the Priesthood. For he having a human body like us except without sin he would be tempted in all points as we are.
Jesus was born a man and grew as a child in wisdom and in favour with God his Father. The Eternal Spirit in That body was the the Word/God.
He fulfilled all righteuosness. Then he returned back to the Father and was glorified with the Glory he had with the Father before his task as a man.
The world was made by this Jesus and knew him not.
Then Jesus proclaimed to the Discples “ALL Power in heaven and earth is given unto me”
He had done the Fathers will. But if you will look M42 there were instances that Jesus could have taken claim to being God.
As Jesus was about to be put on the cross he could have called legions of Angels to his rescue. But he had said “not my will but thine be done”.
Jesus said “Destroy this temple and I will raise it again in three days”
“For the son of man has power to lay down his life and to take it again”
What man could say this?
Though he knew this he still said “into thy hands I commit my Spirit” and he gave up the Ghost.
Jesus in total submission to God.
What man could forgive sins against God?
What man could say he is “Lord of the Saboth”?
What man could say that “before Abraham was “I AM”?
What man could say “unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life in you”?
What man could say “whoso drinks of the water I shall give him shall never die”?
What man can say “I AM the resurection and the life”?
What man could say “If you have seen me then you have seen the Father, I and my Father are One”?
What man could say “I AM the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh to the Father but by me”?
What man could say he was the “GOOD Shephard”?
What man could say “search the scriptures for in them you think you have Eternal life and they are they that testify of me”?
What man could say “ALL that the Father has is mine”?
What man could say “ye believe in God, believe also in me”
What man?
Ill tell you what man, Jesus the Word made flesh and dwelt among us.
M42
If Jesus was just all man for us to follow his example, then why did he not just walk as a man?
Why the walking on water and the dissapearing acts and the calming of storms and the many other miracles he performed with and through the Father who was also in him?
Do you know anybody today that are following that example?
Most of Jesus ministry was surrounded by miracles. Do you seek to have those miracles performed in you. If not you should?
I could go on all night about Jesus.
I leave you with this…
Our bodies are the Temple of God.
I Cor 3:
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Rom 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.Examine these scriptures very closly and you will see the interchanging of the words God, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of him.
Then compare with…
II Cor 13:5
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
The word Jesus in this verse is “Yashua”.How can Jesus dwell in you and the Spirit of God and God the Father unless they are gloriously and wonderously and uniquelly united together as one?
Jesus is God!
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2007,05:55) I leave you with this… Our bodies are the Temple of God.
I Cor 3:
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
Rom 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.Examine these scriptures very closly and you will see the interchanging of the words God, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of him.
Then compare with…
II Cor 13:5
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
The word Jesus in this verse is “Yashua”.How can Jesus dwell in you and the Spirit of God and God the Father unless they are gloriously and wonderously and uniquelly united together as one?
Jesus is God!
Amen! Finally, someone who gets it!1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 
Maybe this is going to sound strange.
Is God to be looked at as a straight line or a triangle?
I am sooo confused about this issue, I read what the Trinitarians believe and I think, ok that makes sense, but so does the other sides view. This forum is so focused on the Trinity or not the Trinity, I don't know anymore what to think, but one thing I am so gratefull to know is that God knows my heart, and then the confusion goes.
I have a question for both sides
Is your salvation based on what side your on?
I pray it isn't, because if it is I'm in trouble.Hi Debra,
My personal belief is that we will not be held accountable for having an incomplete understanding of YHWH's ontology. Having said that our salvation rests on our faith in Yahshua“And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
So our faith is only as good as what it is that we put it in. It is possible to have “another Jesus”, i.e a Jesus other than that which was preached by the NT authors.
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully. (2 Corinthians 11:4)
If we believe Jesus to be a door knob and put our faith in that Jesus, will that Jesus save us?
If we believe Jesus to be a Satan's spirit brother and put our faith in that Jesus, will that Jesus save us?
If we believe Jesus to be a Michael the Archangel and put our faith in that Jesus, will that Jesus save us?
Jesus Himself issued this stark warning to the pharisees:
And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:23-24)
The Greek word for “He” in vs 24 is not found in the Greek manuscripts, it was added by the English translators presumably to make the text read more smoothly, but the addition actually distorts Yahshua's essential message. When He uttered – “unless you believe I AM you will dies in your sins” he was applying an unmistakably divine title to Himself. The title “I am” is of course the one YHWH ascribed to Himself during Moses' burning bush experience (Ex 3:1-14) – one that was reemphasised in Isaiah 41:4, 43:10 and 46:4, and the very one Jesus identified Himself with in John 8:58 and John 18:6.
So Jesus, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth and said to them, “Whom do you seek? They answered Him, “Jesus the Nazarene.” He said to them, “I am He.” And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. So when He said to them, “I am He,” (i.e. I AM) they drew back and fell to the ground. (John 18:4-6)
He is:
The “I AM” (John 8:58)
The “Alpha and Omega” (Rev 22:13)
The “Mighty God” (Isa 9:6)
Mosh High – i.e. The Supreme – (Daniel 7:27)
YHWH (Zech 14:1,3,5,7,9,12,13,16,17,18,20,21)This is the true Jesus. This is the Jesus we should put our faith in.
Blessings
PS; Here is a good article on the “I am” passages for those who are interested – http://www.aomin.org/EGO.html
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Jan. 02 2007,08:48) Hi Debra,
My personal belief is that we will not be held accountable for having an incomplete understanding of YHWH's ontology. Having said that our salvation rests on our faith in Yahshua“And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
So our faith is only as good as what it is that we put it in. It is possible to have “another Jesus”, i.e a Jesus other than that which was preached by the NT authors.
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully. (2 Corinthians 11:4)
If we believe Jesus to be a door knob and put our faith in that Jesus, will that Jesus save us?
If we believe Jesus to be a Satan's spirit brother and put our faith in that Jesus, will that Jesus save us?
If we believe Jesus to be a Michael the Archangel and put our faith in that Jesus, will that Jesus save us?
Jesus Himself issued this warning to the pharisees:
And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:23-24)
The word “He” in vs 24 is not in the Greek MS, it was added by the English translators to make the text read more smoothly, but the addition actually distorts Yahshua essential message. He uttered – “unless you believe I AM you will dies in your sins”. The title “I am” is of course the one YHWH ascribed to Himself during Moses' burning bush experience (Ex 3:1-14) and reemphasised it in Isaiah 41:4, 43:10 and 46:4 and the one Jesus identified Himself with in John 8:58 and John 18:6.
So Jesus, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth and said to them, “Whom do you seek? They answered Him, “Jesus the Nazarene.” He said to them, “I am He.” And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. So when He said to them, “I am He,” (i.e. I AM)they drew back and fell to the ground. (John 18:4-6)
The “I AM” (John 8:58)
The “Alpha and Omega” (Rev 22:13)
The “Mighty God” (Isa 9:6)
Mosh High – i.e. The Supreme – (Daniel 7:27)
YHWH (Zech 14:1,3,5,7,9,12,13,16,17,18,20,21)This is the true Jesus. This is the Jesus we should put our faith in.
Blessings
PS; Here is a good article on the “I am” passages for those who are interested – http://www.aomin.org/EGO.html
Hi Is 1s 1:18
I believe there is no other name than Jesus, Son of God, who was concieved by the Holy Spirit and born to Mary, lived a human life, then was crusified and died then was risen by His Father and lives today with His Father and will come back and sort us out in the not too distant future.
I belive in the Jesus of the Bible.
I believe He is our Saviour and will talk to God on our behalf.
I believe He loves me and knows me better than I know myself
I trust what He says and the promises He makes.
I know my salvation is in His hands.
So what am I?Quote Hi Is 1s 1:18
I believe there is no other name than Jesus, Son of God, who was concieved by the Holy Spirit and born to Mary, lived a human life, then was crusified and died then was risen by His Father and lives today with His Father and will come back and sort us out in the not too distant future.
I belive in the Jesus of the Bible.
I believe He is our Saviour and will talk to God on our behalf.
I believe He loves me and knows me better than I know myself
I trust what He says and the promises He makes.
I know my salvation is in His hands.
So what am I?
Hi Debra,
Everyone here would claim to believe in the “Jesus of the Bible”. Unfortunately, that entails everything from a mere human man (albeit a perfect and annointed one) who began His existence at his human birth to YHWH incarnate. That's the problem.It's not my prerogative to judge another's salvation. I was just trying to point out the obvious – there is a kind of “faith” that isn't faith unto salvation (putting your faith in a door knob will not save anyone). But let me ask you what I think is a pertinent and highly relevant question – do you have God's Spirit in you? and if so, how do you know?
Blessings
Hi Is 1:18
Yes I believe I have God's Spirit in me, because I am not who I was before I asked Jesus to come into my life, and was saved and then baptized, in the name of Jesus.
I don't speak in tongues, I don't have the obvious evidence of being Spirit filled, but I believe I am because I asked, isn't that what we are to do?
Would my Father who loves me give me something bitter when I ask for something sweet?
I love the Lord, and I'm not afraid anymore,I know my prayers are heard, and His Will, will be done, not mine.
I test the spirit behind everything I am drawn too.
I pray that He searches my heart and shows me my sin, so I can repent and ask His forgiveness. I don't want to follow a conterfiet Jesus, I've been there and done that and I do know the differance, I am aware that satan can appear as an angel of light.
I hope I answered your questions?
God bless and goodnight.Quote Hi Debra,
My personal belief is that we will not be held accountable for having an incomplete understanding of YHWH's ontology. Having said that our salvation rests on our faith in Yahshua“And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)
So our faith is only as good as what it is that we put it in. It is possible to have “another Jesus”, i.e a Jesus other than that which was preached by the NT authors.
For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully. (2 Corinthians 11:4)
If we believe Jesus to be a door knob and put our faith in that Jesus, will that Jesus save us?
If we believe Jesus to be a Satan's spirit brother and put our faith in that Jesus, will that Jesus save us?
If we believe Jesus to be a Michael the Archangel and put our faith in that Jesus, will that Jesus save us?
Jesus Himself issued this stark warning to the pharisees:
And He was saying to them, “You are from below, I am from above; you are of this world, I am not of this world. “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:23-24)
The Greek word for “He” in vs 24 is not found in the Greek manuscripts, it was added by the English translators presumably to make the text read more smoothly, but the addition actually distorts Yahshua's essential message. When He uttered – “unless you believe I AM you will dies in your sins” he was applying an unmistakably divine title to Himself. The title “I am” is of course the one YHWH ascribed to Himself during Moses' burning bush experience (Ex 3:1-14) – one that was reemphasised in Isaiah 41:4, 43:10 and 46:4, and the very one Jesus identified Himself with in John 8:58 and John 18:6.
So Jesus, knowing all the things that were coming upon Him, went forth and said to them, “Whom do you seek? They answered Him, “Jesus the Nazarene.” He said to them, “I am He.” And Judas also, who was betraying Him, was standing with them. So when He said to them, “I am He,” (i.e. I AM) they drew back and fell to the ground. (John 18:4-6)
He is:
The “I AM” (John 8:58)
The “Alpha and Omega” (Rev 22:13)
The “Mighty God” (Isa 9:6)
Mosh High – i.e. The Supreme – (Daniel 7:27)
YHWH (Zech 14:1,3,5,7,9,12,13,16,17,18,20,21)This is the true Jesus. This is the Jesus we should put our faith in.
Blessings
PS; Here is a good article on the “I am” passages for those who are interested – http://www.aomin.org/EGO.html
Amen Isa 1:18 Excellent post!
Debra
Continue to sincerely seek the Lord on this issue and the Spirit of God will show you and lead you into all truth.
Do not Just accept the narrow interpretations of a few scriptures that many claim deny the deity of your Lord Jesus.
Look at the scriptures as a whole and remember that Jesus said that the scriptures testify of him, and that it is written of him in the volume of the book.
He truly is King of Kings and Lord of Lords!
Heb 10:17
Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.Jn 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.Sorry I guess I am not really following you:
I am just asking if you believe that El and YHWH are the same being?
I know you believe Jesus is YHWH but do you believe that YHWH is El?
No. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2007,15:11) No. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.
But you believe they are one? is that is being and unity or just in unity?Do you believe the Holy Spirit is a person?
Quote But you believe they are one? is that is being and unity or just in unity? Do you believe the Holy Spirit is a person?
Mercy
All the Fulness of the Godhead is in Jesus Bodily. Three beings.
Father,Son and Holy Spirit, Devinely, and Uniquely, and wonderfully united together as One!
I repeat from a previous post…
Our bodies are the Temple of God.
I Cor 3:
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.Rom 8
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.Examine these scriptures very closly and you will see the interchanging of the words God, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of him.
Then compare with…
II Cor 13:5
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?The word Jesus in this verse is “Yashua”.
How can Jesus dwell in you and the Spirit of God and God the Father unless they are gloriously and wonderously and Uniquely, united together as one?
Jesus is God!
Quote (Mercy @ Jan. 02 2007,18:18) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 02 2007,15:11) No. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Father.
But you believe they are one? is that is being and unity or just in unity?Do you believe the Holy Spirit is a person?
Hi mercy, I hope you don't mind me responding to your question.God is one, yet God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Almighty God is the One we call Father.
The Word of God, who was in the beginning with God and was God, is the Door to the Father. We call Him Jesus.
The Holy Spirit is definately a “person” who is able to teach, to comfort, to impart the gifts and attributes of the Father. Scripture refers to Him repeatedly as He the Holy Spirit as below:
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in My name, He shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I have said to you.
Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.
He comes, He guides, He speaks, He hears, He announces that which is to come. He is the Holy Spirit!
Quote (Debra @ Jan. 02 2007,07:44) Maybe this is going to sound strange.
Is God to be looked at as a straight line or a triangle?
I am sooo confused about this issue, I read what the Trinitarians believe and I think, ok that makes sense, but so does the other sides view. This forum is so focused on the Trinity or not the Trinity, I don't know anymore what to think, but one thing I am so gratefull to know is that God knows my heart, and then the confusion goes.
I have a question for both sides
Is your salvation based on what side your on?
I pray it isn't, because if it is I'm in trouble.
Hi Debra, I hope you don't mind my input here, but I have such a passion for our God. (Not saying you don't of course!)I don't believe God is a triangle or a line, but I do believe in identifying the three individuals so that we can know our God and our relationship with Him is in order.
When Jesus was born, Almighty God became a Father. He is of course, the Father of all who are born of the Spirit.
All authority has been given to Jesus Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, All authority is given to Me in Heaven and in earth. This makes Jesus King of kings, Lord of lords and the only One by whom we can come to the Father. Jesus is the Door to the Father.
The person of the Holy Spirit is given to us to teach us and guide us into all truth amongst His other functions.
Joh 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth. For He shall not speak of Himself, but whatever He hears, He shall speak. And He will announce to you things to come.The Holy Spirit is He who comes, hears and speaks.
As for which side of the fence, an interesting question, but I believe it has more to do with faith than fences. True faith is hearing from God in a personal relationship. If you have that and walk in obedience to Him, then all is well.
So.. be a daughter to your Father, worship and adore Him.
Be a servant to the Lord Jesus Christ, who is your big brother.
Obey the Spirit who will guide you and witness to the truth.Blessings
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