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Quote (t8 @ Sep. 08 2006,14:10) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 09 2006,03:36) Quote (Elidad @ Sep. 07 2006,23:07) Hi Oxy, The discussion has been moving a little too fast for me. Only now just catching up with some of the past posts. Your above comment puzzles me a somewhat. Firstly I never said you were a Catholic. However, by your own admission you are Catholic whether you acknowledge it or not, if you subscribe to the belief of three Gods in one, as this is one of the hallmarks of the Catholic Faith, as the Athanasius Creed states.
If you check with a good Dictionary, you can see what is embraced by use of this term.
Cheers
Elidad
Quote What defined and still defines the Roman Catholic faith is the Trinity. Whether you call yourself a Roman Catholic or not, by your belief in the Trinity doctrine you are Roman Catholic according to the Roman Catholic Church the guardians and promoters of that doctrine. They only await you to come back to the mother. One more step and you are there.
Hi Oxy,
This is what's called the 'guilt by association fallacy'. It's often employed here. Don't take it seriously. After all, the Catholics also believe in, and actively teach, the resurrection of Christ – so should be dismiss this doctrine a heretical because it's espoused by them?
It should also be noted that the trinity doctrine is a mainstream doctrine and held as truth by the absolute vast majority of Christians across almost all the creditable denominations, not just the catholics.
Blessings
Incorrect, false.We believe not in the Trinity because it is not scriptural, not for the reason you gave. You know this, as we have said it many times before.
Catholics read the bible, yet we do not condemn the bible, so your words fall flat right there.
Your assumption is a false one.
The Roman Catholic faith is the Trinity. If that is what you want to believe, then go right ahead. Oh that's right, you already have.
BTW, if this statement is your attempt that weilding the sword, of the spirit, then I think you need some serious lessons.
If this is your way of attacking the truth that for believers there is one God the Father, then fair enough that is your choice. God gave you free will. So free in fact that you can even reject his scripture if you so choose.
But you believe that you are doing God a favour by coming here and attacking that which we teach, yet I haven't heard yourself Oxy explain why the word “God”, when replaced by the word “Trinity” nullifies the word of God.
I am still waiting, but I guess I will be waiting a long time.
Yet somehow I do remain intrigued that yourself an Oxy can ignore such an obvious thing. I am sure that I myself would wonder why a doctrine I believed nullified the word of God. I mean, that would worry me enough to do something about it. I personally couldn't ignore the fact that the word Trinity cannot replace the word “God” in the bible. I certainly would be asking some serious questions if I was in your shoes.
What manor of man can conciously ignore this simple fact?
Does not your conscience speak?
How can a man ignore scripture?This is what you and Oxy are demonstrating, but I cannot see the gain in such action. What do you honestly hope to gain by ignoring scripture.
To me that would be like avoiding tax, but knowing that I was going to be caught out eventually. It wouldn't give me any peace is what I am trying to say.
Both t8 and Elidad have missed the point entirely.
I was not affirming that popular consensus validates the doctrine. It neither validates nor invalidate it. So playing the evolution card was really quite silly t8. I was objecting to you both painting Oxy as a Catholic idolator simply because he seemingly holds to one of their doctrines…thereby using the 'guilt by association' tactic. It's very dishonest of you both to do this. Par for the course for you t8…..Holding a similar view on a doctrine in no way attaches Oxy to, or associates him with, Catholicism than it does to any of the mainstream denominations. The doctrine did not originate from the RCC or any other denomination for that matter. At the very least it's codification preceded them all (325 AD). And even if it did originate from the the RCC, so what?!? The Catholics affirm the bodily resurrection of Christ and any number of quite legitimate doctrines. If you were consistent you should be questioning the validity of them all on account of the denomination they are associated with.
Heb. 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2006,00:55) I wonder if the domain name thetrinitycreatedeverythingthroughevolution.com is available? I bet you could make a bit from Google advertising on that site.
Is 1:18, do you believe in the theory of evolution?
Do I believe there is a theory of evolution?Yes.
Do I believe it adequately explains the origin and diversity of life on earth?
No.
Dear t8
There are many who are still bound by the trinity doctrine. That does not mean they are not believers. And to be treated as they are not is not the work of brothers in the faith. I expect it out of Nick, because he is not of the same spirit. T8, you are a good brother in the lord and I believe you are growing in the faith, but you must be able to use tender care with those who are in Christ, but are still held within the confines of false teachings. That is what is so great about this forum. To bring the truth to those who are seeking the truth. The Lord will lead those here who he wants to lead here. Let us not push them away. If the trinity doctrine is the only hurdle that many need to get past, then that is wonderful. For even though it is unsound, there are far worse doctrines in the world today to contend with. Don't you agree?
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 09 2006,20:08) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2006,00:55) I wonder if the domain name thetrinitycreatedeverythingthroughevolution.com is available? I bet you could make a bit from Google advertising on that site.
Is 1:18, do you believe in the theory of evolution?
Do I believe there is a theory of evolution?Yes.
Do I believe it adequately explains the origin and diversity of life on earth?
No.
OK, so “the Trinity created the world through evolution” book is a possibility?The world is just now coming to the age of about 6000 years old. And I believe for a saint to say they believe in evolution is like saying they don't stand on the word of God. It makes me question their stand in the faith.
Now if they pay me to take a copy t8, I might take one. If the price is right. You never know when you might need something to burn for fuel for heat. Especially the way oil prices fluxuate.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 09 2006,01:05) Heb. 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
Interesting that in vs 10 the writer of Hebrews applied to Yahshua an OT verse that was written in direct reference to the Most High God, YHWH (Ps 102:25).What do you make of that HICITC?
To hcitc
Quote Dear t8 There are many who are still bound by the trinity doctrine. That does not mean they are not believers. And to be treated as they are not is not the work of brothers in the faith. I expect it out of Nick, because he is not of the same spirit. T8, you are a good brother in the lord and I believe you are growing in the faith, but you must be able to use tender care with those who are in Christ, but are still held within the confines of false teachings. That is what is so great about this forum. To bring the truth to those who are seeking the truth. The Lord will lead those here who he wants to lead here. Let us not push them away. If the trinity doctrine is the only hurdle that many need to get past, then that is wonderful. For even though it is unsound, there are far worse doctrines in the world today to contend with. Don't you agree?
I agree that we should show respect to people and especially those who have faith in God.But I also believe that false teachings and doctrines need to be challenged. Humour can play a part too if what someone teaches is follish, as it can show how rediculous a teaching is. Otherwise if you answer a foolish teaching with a serious answer then they may think they are wise.
Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2006,01:17) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 09 2006,20:08) Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2006,00:55) I wonder if the domain name thetrinitycreatedeverythingthroughevolution.com is available? I bet you could make a bit from Google advertising on that site.
Is 1:18, do you believe in the theory of evolution?
Do I believe there is a theory of evolution?Yes.
Do I believe it adequately explains the origin and diversity of life on earth?
No.
OK, so “the Trinity created the world through evolution” book is a possibility?
“Do I believe it adequately explains the origin and diversity of life on earth?No“
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 09 2006,01:17) The world is just now coming to the age of about 6000 years old. And I believe for a saint to say they believe in evolution is like saying they don't stand on the word of God. It makes me question their stand in the faith.
Amen HICITC, as a young Earth creationist myself – I can't help but agree.Blessings
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 09 2006,20:26) Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 09 2006,01:17) The world is just now coming to the age of about 6000 years old. And I believe for a saint to say they believe in evolution is like saying they don't stand on the word of God. It makes me question their stand in the faith.
Amen HICITC, as a young Earth creationist myself – I can't help but agree.Blessings
The bad news for you Is 1:18 is that you are not in the mainstream of science. So are we to assume you are wrong for reason of not being in the mainstream?Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 09 2006,01:03) I was not affirming that popular consensus validates the doctrine. It neither validates nor invalidate it. So playing the evolution card was really quite silly t8. 
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 09 2006,20:28) You need to start reading my posts carefully t8…..
OK you believe in evolution except for the Origin of Species part.That is a big part, and the mainstream of that theory. Are you a scientific heretic.
Similarly the Trinity is a big part of the denominational system and the mainstream and I am a heretic accordingly.
Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 09 2006,20:33) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 09 2006,01:03) I was not affirming that popular consensus validates the doctrine. It neither validates nor invalidate it. So playing the evolution card was really quite silly t8.
No point I was bringing out was how rediculous it is to use mainstream as an argument to support a belief, given that men have been wrong repeatedly.Or to point out that there is no true comfort in following the mainstream as they can and often are wrong.
The point had little if anything to do with evolution.
Dear t8,
We are to prove and reprove all things. And when we have those who come to us who have doctrines that are of men, we have to try and undo the damage that has been done. We are talking about centuries of deception and lies. And you use the word challenge, but I believe it better to prove. To challenge in to bring competition and this can bring discourse which is not beneficial to the faith. We want to tear down the walls, not built walls. So we prove that the Word of God is faithful and true, for none can stand against it. There is only one doctrine of Christ, but many false doctrines of Christ. And it is only by standing on the purity of God's Word and proving and reproving do we lead others out of false doctrines that are built on the biasness of men. So remember that love is most important. Without love, faith is meaningless.
Quote (t8 @ Sep. 09 2006,01:33) Quote (Is 1:18 @ Sep. 09 2006,20:28) You need to start reading my posts carefully t8…..
OK you believe in evolution except for the Origin of Species part.That is a big part, and the mainstream of that theory. Are you a scientific heretic.
Please show me where I said that I believed in evolution…Quote Similarly the Trinity is a big part of the denominational system and the mainstream and I am a heretic accordingly.
Non sequiturDear Is 1:18,
You asked where there was scripture saying that Jesus was referred to as God and I provided it. God the Father himself referred to the Son as God. And it goes with all that I believe. That the Father begat the Son in the beginning and made him God over all of creation. And all of creation came into being by the Son and through the Son by the will of the Father through the unction of the Holy Spirit.
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