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Greetings,
First we want to thank you for you are an answer to our prayers.
Myself being an ordained minister of both the Mennonite church and also ordained in a non-denominational Christian church I have been a proponent of the Trinity Doctrine for many years and even wrote a doctrinal thesis concerning the Trinity for my ordination. Years later after having been excommunicated from several churches for saying and showing things of Scripture which did not agree with the churches doctrine we found ourselves determined to be taught by God and not men. We embraced the scripture which says, the annointing will teach you all things and you have no need for any man to teach you (1 John 2:27).
God began to show us all the things in our doctrine which were not correct. The first thing was the doctrine of the trinity. When He first started to show us scriptures we got very angry and tried to resist His teaching, but line came upon line and precept upon precept until we knew without a doubt that there is one God – the Father and one Son – the Man Christ Jesus. Reading the scriptures became so much easier without trying to figure out who was who, who did what and who said what.. then most of the mystery disappeared.
We had accumulated many scriptures (shown below) but whenever we tried to discuss these things we were met with anger or called heretics. So we prayed and asked God if we were out in left field or if there were others like us. He answered by showing us your website! We are glad to feel we are ok and not alone. I have included our information below to add to yours as we have added your infromation to ours!
Thanks again and God bless you all,
Ministermark
One God: the Father & One Man: Christ Jesus
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?.
Deuteronomy 4:35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
Deuteronomy 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Deuteronomy 18:18-19 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
1 Kings 2:4 That the LORD may continue his word which he spake concerning me, saying, If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, there shall not fail thee (said he) a man on the throne of Israel.
1 Kings 8:25 Therefore now, LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that thou promisedst him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit on the throne of Israel; so that thy children take heed to their way, that they walk before me as thou hast walked before me.
1 Kings 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.
1 Kings 9:5 Then I will establish the throne of thy kingdom upon Israel for ever, as I promised to David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man upon the throne of Israel.
2 Chronicles 6:16 Now therefore, O LORD God of Israel, keep with thy servant David my father that which thou hast promised him, saying, There shall not fail thee a man in my sight to sit upon the throne of Israel; yet so that thy children take heed to their way to walk in my law, as thou hast walked before me.
2 Chronicles 7:18 Then will I stablish the throne of thy kingdom, according as I have covenanted with David thy father, saying, There shall not fail thee a man to be ruler in Israel.1 Samuel 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.
2 Samuel 7:22 Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Psalm 80:17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.
Psalms 86:10 For thou art great, and doest wondrous things: thou art God alone.
Psalms 95:3 For the LORD is a great God, and a great King above all gods.
Psalm 139:7-8 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? 8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
Isaiah 31:3 Now the Egyptians are men, and not God; and their horses flesh, and not spirit.
Isaiah 32:1-2 Behold, a king shall reign in righteousness, and princes shall rule in judgment. 2 And a man shall be as an hiding place from the wind, and a covert from the tempest; as rivers of water in a dry place, as the shadow of a great rock in a weary land
Isaiah 37:16 O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth.
Isaiah 43:10-13 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. 12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. 13 Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?
Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isaiah 45:5-6 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.
Isaiah 45:21-22 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isaiah 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me.
Isaiah 53:3 “He is despised and rejected of men; a MAN of sorrows, and acquainted with grief; and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.”
Jeremiah 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God,
Jeremiah 10:16 The portion of Jacob is not like them: for he is the former of all things; and Israel is the rod of his inheritance: The LORD of hosts is his name.
Jeremiah 16:21 Therefore, behold, I will this once cause them to kn
ow, I will cause them to know mine hand and my might; and they shall know that my name is The LORD.Jeremiah 23:23-24 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? 24 Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 33:17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel.
Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
Zechariah 6:12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the MAN whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD:
Malachi 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?
Matthew 8:27 But the men marvelled, saying, What manner of MAN is this, that even the winds and the sea obey him?
Matthew 11:19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a MAN gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Matthew 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this MAN this wisdom, and these mighty works?
Matthew 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this MAN all these things?
Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Matthew 26:72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the MAN.
Matthew 27:47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This MAN calleth for Elias.
Matthew 27:19 When he was set down on the judgment seat, his wife sent unto him, saying, Have thou nothing to do with that just MAN: for I have suffered many things this day in a dream because of him.
Mark 3:29-30 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (Mark 3:30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.
Mark 4:41 And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of MAN is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?
Mark 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this MAN these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no MAN, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
Mark 14:71 But he began to curse and to swear, saying, I know not this MAN of whom ye speak.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this MAN was the Son of God.
Luke 7:8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
Luke 7:34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous MAN, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Luke 7:39 Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This MAN, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.
Luke 8:25 And he said unto them, Where is your faith? And they being afraid wondered, saying one to another, What manner of MAN is this! For he commandeth even the winds and water, and they obey him.
Luke 15:2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This MAN receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
Luke 23:4 Then said Pilate to the chief priests and to the people, I find no fault in this MAN.
Luke 23:14 Said unto them, Ye have brought this MAN unto me, as one that perverteth the people: and, behold, I, having examined him before you, have found no fault in this MAN touching those things whereof ye accuse him:
John 1:30 “This is he of whom I have said, After me cometh a MAN which is preferred before me; for he was before me.”
John 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
John 7:46 The officers answered, Never MAN spake like this MAN.
John 8:40 “But now ye seek to kill me, a MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.”
John 9:11 He answered and said, A MAN that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.
John 9:33 If this MAN were not of God, he could do nothing.
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a MAN, makest thyself God.
John 11:37 And some of them said, Could not this MAN, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died?
John 11:49-50 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all, 50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one MAN should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
John 18:14 Now Caiaphas was he, which gave counsel to the Jews, that it was expedient that one MAN should die for the people.
John 19:5 Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the MAN!
Acts 2:22 “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you by miracles, and wonders, and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know.”
Acts 13:38-41 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this MAN is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: 39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; 41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a MAN declare it unto you.
Acts 17:31 “Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that MAN whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.”Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Romans 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
Romans 5:12-15 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come
. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one MAN, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.Romans 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.
1 Corinthians 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1 Corinthians 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by MAN came also the resurrection of the dead.
1 Corinthians 15:45-47 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second MAN is the Lord from heaven.
2 Corinthians 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.
Ephesians 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus.”
Hebrews 8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this MAN have somewhat also to offer.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jude 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jude 1:25 To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Quote (Mercy @ Sep. 08 2006,13:48) I once believed the trinity doctrine myself. Then I seriously looked into the evidence. The things T8 is saying is the exact information I discovered.
We all agree here, I think, that the scriptures must supersede the authority of tradition and teachings of men.
I no doubt believe that the trinitarians on this forum are God fearing and sincere Christians.
I also realize that all of us are fully capable of simply being wrong by not properly applying and weighing the evidence before us. I myself am probably wrong on several beliefs, yet, if and when ever I discover an error I know I must yield my former position.
When I honestly look at the evidence with all pride and fear of men removed from my thoughts then I cannot help but see very clearly the deceptive teaching of the Trinity.
We all love God and therefor defend what we believe to be the truths about him. So I do not judge trinitarians at all in that regard. The vast majority of my christian friends are trinitarians.
But, I cannot help but yearn for them to see what I see and I wish the same for you. With respect, grace, sincerity and all humbleness.
While I appreciate your concerns, this discussion has done nothing except strengthen my resolve that Jesus is God along with His Father and the Holy Spirit.I know how God favours His Son. I would far rather be accused by the Father for thinking too highly of His beloved Son than thinking too little of Him!
Hi Oxy,
If they are ridiculous
it is only in the light that derivations
from what you say you believe
show that the basic principle you are usingis ridiculous.
Hi Oxy,
You quote John
“Joh 1:11 He came to His own, and His own received Him not.
Joh 1:12 But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to become the children of God, to those who believe on His name,
Joh 1:13 who were born, not of bloods, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but were born of God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and of truth.”So he came, as the Son of God, to enable us too to become sons of God.
He was not that God that he served in this way.Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 08 2006,21:45) Hi Oxy,
If they are ridiculous
it is only in the light that derivations
from what you say you believe
show that the basic principle you are usingis ridiculous.
whatever.Nick, at least Oxy does not deny that we should call Jesus God. Even though I disagree with his stand on the trinity, for I believe the Son was begotten of the Father in the beginning, even before creation, and that the Father made him God, and by the Son and through the Son by the will of the Father, all of creation came into begin by the unction of the Holy Spirit, I believe Oxy's stand is stronger in the faith then that of yours. For he does not deny God, who is Chirst Jesus. For none can come to the Father, but through the Son. Yet, there will come a time once all things have been subdued that the Son will relinquish his authority of the Godhead unto the Father so the that Father will be all in all. For there is only one God.
Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 08 2006,21:41) What's your point Nick? Both questions seem a little ridiculous.
Hi Oxy,
If you find ridiculous
the thought of being in Christ
as the branch is in the vine,
then you have not grasped
the meaning of the Son of God
coming to earth to save us yet.Quote (Ministermark @ Sep. 09 2006,11:19) Greetings, First we want to thank you for you are an answer to our prayers.
Myself being an ordained minister of both the Mennonite church and also ordained in a non-denominational Christian church I have been a proponent of the Trinity Doctrine for many years and even wrote a doctrinal thesis concerning the Trinity for my ordination. Years later after having been excommunicated from several churches for saying and showing things of Scripture which did not agree with the churches doctrine we found ourselves determined to be taught by God and not men. We embraced the scripture which says, the annointing will teach you all things and you have no need for any man to teach you (1 John 2:27).
God began to show us all the things in our doctrine which were not correct. The first thing was the doctrine of the trinity. When He first started to show us scriptures we got very angry and tried to resist His teaching, but line came upon line and precept upon precept until we knew without a doubt that there is one God – the Father and one Son – the Man Christ Jesus. Reading the scriptures became so much easier without trying to figure out who was who, who did what and who said what.. then most of the mystery disappeared.
We had accumulated many scriptures (shown below) but whenever we tried to discuss these things we were met with anger or called heretics. So we prayed and asked God if we were out in left field or if there were others like us. He answered by showing us your website! We are glad to feel we are ok and not alone. I have included our information below to add to yours as we have added your infromation to ours!
Thanks again and God bless you all,
Ministermark
One God: the Father & One Man: Christ Jesus
Welcome Ministermark.Thanks for sharing that. It is good to see that you rose above the fear of man and gave God and his truth the respect that it deserves. I hope that we can share together in the spirit of truth from hence forth.
I take it that you believe that Jesus is and was the Word of God that was with God in the beginning and that he emptied himself of his former glory and came in the flesh, he died for our sins, was resurrected, and is at the right-hand of the majesty on high.
I usually ask this as we get so many types coming here. Trinitarian, Unitarians, JWs, Christadephians, etc.
We are trying to call people from out of these, to be set free to serve in spirit and truth.
God bless.
Quote (heiscomingintheclouds @ Sep. 08 2006,19:44) Nick, at least Oxy does not deny that we should call Jesus God. Even though I disagree with his stand on the trinity, for I believe the Son was begotten of the Father in the beginning, even before creation, and that the Father made him God, and by the Son and through the Son by the will of the Father, all of creation came into begin by the unction of the Holy Spirit, I believe Oxy's stand is stronger in the faith then that of yours. For he does not deny God, who is Chirst Jesus. For none can come to the Father, but through the Son. Yet, there will come a time once all things have been subdued that the Son will relinquish his authority of the Godhead unto the Father so the that Father will be all in all. For there is only one God.
Hello H.I.C.I.T.C, Really I think we are arguing at cross purposes at times, as I read through the various posts.In fact, unless I have missed something somewhere, I don't think Nick or t8 have any problem referring to Christ as God. Nick and t8 , please correct me if I have got it wrong.
What they are challenging, as with myself, is the belief that Christ is Almighty God; in other words Yahweh. I have just recently listened to a CD by Charles Swindoll and he strongly insists that Christ is Yahweh, using such references as John 8:58 (among others) to support his contention.
In spite of what he makes of John 8:58, where he is totally and absolutely incorrect, the Scriptures do not teach that Christ is Yahweh. Christ is the Son of God, the Messiah spoken of extensively throughout the Old Testament. He is not Almighty God.
But as Nick has pointed out, he is referred to as a God. Why because his Father, the Almighty God, has made Him be a God to us, in exactly the same way he made Moses be God (Elohim) to Pharoah of Egypt. Exodus 7:1 reads (KJV)“And the LORD (Yahweh) said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (elohim) to Pharoah: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet”
Compare also with Exodus 4:16.
So yes, whilst I contest trinitarian theology, I stand with Thomas when he said to Christ “My Lord and my God” but I see a vast difference between this and saying “My Lord and my Almighty God” as trinitarian theology urges.
Thus I think it is important in this dicussion Forum to understand what is being contested. It is not the fact that Jesus is referred to as God, but rather as Almighty God.
Scripture is quite clear, if you carefully compare Scripture with Scripture, and allow it to be its own interpreter, that Christ is not Almighty God. He is not Yahweh. It may well be right to refer to Christ as the Mighty God as we read in Isaiah 9:6 but certainly not as Almighty God. As an aside, it is interesting to read what other translators and commentators have said about Isaiah 9:6, where it speaks of Christ as the Mighty God and everlasting Father – seems the KJV translators didn't quite get it right.
Christ made known who the only true God was, and said,
“This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3)The only “true” God is Yahweh, the Father, the Almighty God and His son is Jesus Christ.
Can anything be clearer? It is essential that we get this sorted out, because Christ said, 'eternal life' is bound up in understanding this consideration.
Perhaps the catch cry of Elijah is very relevant, if I may paraphrase:
“How long halt ye between two opinions? if the LORD be God, follow him: but if the trinity be God, then follow such. And the people answered him not a word. (1 Kings 18:21)
As for me, I will follow the LORD; Yahweh, and do Him honor, and glorify His name, by falling into line behind His son; like He instructed, whom He has appointed heir of all things (Hebrews 1:2)
Incidently, no one has ever explained to me how Christ can be the heir of all things, and also be the benefactor?
Peace be with you.
Elidad
Quote (Elidad @ Sep. 09 2006,18:54) But as Nick has pointed out, he is referred to as a God. Why because his Father, the Almighty God, has made Him be a God to us, in exactly the same way he made Moses be God (Elohim) to Pharoah of Egypt. Exodus 7:1 reads (KJV)”And the LORD (Yahweh) said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god (elohim) to Pharoah: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet” Compare also with Exodus 4:16.
So yes, whilst I contest trinitarian theology, I stand with Thomas when he said to Christ “My Lord and my God” but I see a vast difference between this and saying “My Lord and my Almighty God” as trinitarian theology urges.
A good post Elidad.Quote (Elidad @ Sep. 09 2006,07:58) Quote It should also be noted that the trinity doctrine is a mainstream doctrine and held as truth by the absolute vast majority of Christians across almost all the creditable denominations, not just the catholics. Hi Is 1:18,
Did Jesus, go along with “popular opinion” during the time of his ministry?
I have just noticed on the WEB that mainstream Churches are increasingly accepting and supporting the “theory” of Evolution as fact; some 10,000 ministers having signed a petition to this effect. Go here to read about it: http://www.butler.edu/clergyproject/religion_science_collaboration.htm
Would you also advocate that we should now throw out the Genesis account of Creation, because an increasing number of mainstream churches think Evolution is the truth of the matter?
Cheers
Elidad
Good point Elidad.Perhaps someone could make a heap of money by writing a book titled:
The Trinity created everything through Evolution.The biggest support for such a theme would be that it is mainstream.
He he.
Oxy, I am still waiting for your explanation as to why the trinity doctrine that you promote, directly breaks hundreds of scriptures.
How do you explain away that fact that the word “God” replaced with the word “Trinity” nullifies the word of God?
Do you just ignore this fact? Or do you have a reason. I await your reason, but if I do not get one, then I can only conclude that you choose to remain ignorant.
Dear Elidad,
I agree with t8 that your post was well written. Thank you for sharing it brother, but I don't agree with all of it. The part where you said that t8 and Nick believe that Jesus is God, but not Father God I am not sure is correct. I believe t8 believes this, but Nick I do not. Nick has led me to believe that he does not believe Jesus is God. And I believe this is his stand. This is denying Christ. For to deny the Son is to deny the Father. None, no, not one will be able to come unto the Father, but through the Son. For the Father and the Son are one.
The Father begat the Son in the beginning, giving him all the authority of the Godhead, making the Son God of all creation. All things were made by the Son and through the Son by the will of the Father through the untion of the Holy Spirit.
I have seen no proof that Nick believes that Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God. Yet, he is not God Almighty, he is the Word made God. The Word is the Alpha, the Omega, the beginning, and the end, the first and the last.
Quote Perhaps someone could make a heap of money by writing a book titled:
The Trinity created everything through Evolution.LOL. I bet it would be a best seller. The world will believe a lie before it will the Word of God. That is a good point t8. I believe the trinity doctrine is definitely the foundation for the evolution beliefs. I believe it was the start that led to it.
By corrupting God's Word, you can make man believe anything.
Quote (Elidad @ Sep. 08 2006,23:54) But as Nick has pointed out, he is referred to as a God.
Hello Elidad,
Can you please point me to a verse in the Bible where Yahshua is referred to as “a God”?Thanks
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