The Trinity Doctrine

[Oxy]

Can there be any doubt? Mary was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was this way (for His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph) before they came together, she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

The Son of God was no mere title, it was indeed the Word of God made flesh. The firstborn of the family of God.
Heb 1:1 God, who at many times and in many ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds,
Heb 1:3 who being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence, and upholding all things by the word of His power, through Himself cleansing of our sins, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high,
Heb 1:4 being made so much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did He say at any time, “You are My Son, this day I have begotten You?” And again, “I will be to Him a Father, and He shall be to Me a Son?”
Heb 1:6 And again, when He brings in the First-born into the world, He says, “And let all the angels of God worship Him.”

And then… I love this.
Heb 1:8 But to the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity, therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows.”

Sooo.. looks like the Son IS God. According to Scripture.

That doesn't take away from God the Oneness, for Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One, yet the three are each “one” in their own right.

[NickHassan]

Hi Oxy,
The bible teaches in 1Cor 8 and
consistently throught His living words
we have one God.

“There is for us one God..”

God is a Father
God has a Son
He is the Son of God.

He is our Lord
“..and one Lord Jesus Christ”

God calls His Son God.
That does not change anything.
He is not the one the Jews called God.
Jesus told us that is the Father.
God does not have a God
Jesus does and he told us the Father was greater than him.
In the same context of Hebrews 1
“therefore God, YOUR GOD, has anointed you..”
God is not a triune being because God calls Jesus God.
The divine origins of the Son remain.
Original nature does not define being.
Men devised that thought.
Not cute nor clever.

Trinity is not of the bible.
It is not of faith.
Thus it is of sin
and you should abhor it.

[Oxy]

So we ignore this Scripture?
Heb 1:8 But to the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
Heb 1:9 You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity, therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows.”

I don't know why you find it so hard to see that our One God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. You can't confine GOD according to understanding. He is way bigger than that.

[Oxy]

Seriously Nick.. can you explain Hebrews 1:8-9 for me?

[NickHassan]

Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 05 2006,09:46)

So we ignore this Scripture? Heb 1:8  But to the Son He says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. Heb 1:9  You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity, therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows.” I don't know why you find it so hard to see that our One God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  You can't confine GOD according to understanding.  He is way bigger than that.

Hi Oxy,
You say we should not ignore a man made concept of God?
If you are following men that is true but surely you are not?

Jesus told us the Word is truth and to abide in those teachings.

How can you compare his teachings with those of theologians?

If our God is a trinity
God is not a Father
and
He does not have a Son.

Our faith is built on that sound and vital foundation and men would elevate their vain selves and undermine those truths.

They would even devise a
“now you see it, now you don't “
view of God where
there is a Father and a Son
in one light
but never was in another

and paper this nonsense over with pretty words
and cries of “mystery”.

Wake up Oxy
and choose whom you would serve
as lukewarm followers
who will not defend him and his teachings
will earn no useful reward.

[Oxy]

Please don't tell me to wake up Nick. Don't insult me with your “wiser than thou” attitudes. I believe I am right as much as you believe you are right.

You have not explained those verses to me.. Hebrews 1:8-9 as yet. I have noticed that you tend to ignore questions that you can't answer.

Just because you can't understand that our God is well able to be a Father and a Son and the Holy Spirit doesn't mean that it isn't so.

The arguments you pose above are ridiculous.

It's time you woke up Nick!

[Oxy]

I should also add that it is totally unScriptural to call the Bible the Word of God. I thought anyone claiming to have the wisdom that you claim to have would understand that.

There is only ONE Word of God (logos), His name is Jesus!

[jmsad07]

Quote (Elidad @ Sep. 03 2006,23:47)

Did the disciples worship Jesus? Should Christians worship someone other than God? Does worship of Jesus prove He is God? WORSHIP! In the English language it can mean: 1. Reverent homage or service paid to God. 2. Recognition, honor, respect given to men. 3. Great love or adoration for a person or thing. 4. A title of respect for some officials. (such as magistrates or mayors) In the Bible, the main meaning comes across as much the same. 1. To bow down before. 2. By kneeling or prostration to do homage (to one) or make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication. It is used of homage shown to superior rank …. to GOD; and to MEN; and to ANGELS. WHEN ANGELS OR MEN RECEIVE “WORSHIP” IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY ARE GOD! WORSHIP OF GOD ALONE It can be seen above that “worship” has several meanings. But there is ONE particular sense in which GOD ALONE is to be worshipped. Worship in this sense applies to no other. There are many places in the Old Testament where it is clear that The LORD is to be the sole object of divine worship. The LORD (Yahweh) is the ONLY GOD. “For thou shalt worship NO OTHER GOD: for the LORD, (Yahweh) whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.” (Exodus 34:14) It is quite clear from many OT references that God the Father is Yahweh, and that Jesus is NOT Yahweh.

I think that we need first to clarify the term “worship” which is the subject of this discussion. What does it really mean?

I have found information in The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia about the term worship. In the Bible there were so many words which are translated in English language as “worship” but there is something very important to notice that we need to be careful in chosing the word to be used for worship.

WORSHIP: Proskuneo(greek) (Strong's Number 4352)

1) to kiss the hand to (towards) one, in token of reverence.
2) among the Orientals,esp. the Persians, to fall upon the knees and touch the ground with the forehead as an expression of profound reverence.
3) in the New Testament by kneeling or prostration to do homage shown to men of superior rank.
1) to the Jewish high priest
2) to GOD
3) to Christ
4) to heavenly beings
5) to demons
According to this reference,
It is rendered 16 times to Jesus as a beneficient superior; at least 24 times to GOD or to Jesus as GOD.

With regard to your question, Does Worship of Jesus prove he is God? My answer is Yes. Why? Let us analyze these verses!

I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow,every tounge shall take an oath. Isaiah 45:23

If we will compare this verse to Phill.2:10-11, it says;

That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow , of those in heaven ,and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, And that every tounge shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

We will simply notice that in Isaiah the Speaker says ” I have sworn by Myself” ” to Me every knee shall bow” (Myself,Me). It notably means that He SWORN by Himself that to Him (only to Him) every knee shall bow and every tounge shall take an oath.
So why did He commanded angels to worship Jesus? Did GOD violate His very own word?

The answer is “NO.” Jesus is worthy to recieved worship just as the Father because Jesus is of equal essence or nature as the Father. In Zechariah 13:7 the word “fellow” has the Hebrew meaning “equal.”

There is a verse in the Bible that flagrantly saying, “I will not give My glory to another.” So why did God give his glory to another? In the name of Jesus by commanding angels to worship Jesus if Jesus is just only a man.

Also the book of Jeremiah says in chapter 17 verses 5;

Thus says the LORD: “Cursed is the man who trusts in “MAN” and makes his flesh his strength, whose heart departs from the LORD.

But in Book Of Psalms the scripture says;

Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish in the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are those who trust in Him. Ps.2:12 NKJV

Only GOD has the right to recieved worship as Exodus 20:5 says. In the ministry of Jesus Christ here on earth he allowed his believers and even his apostles to worship him without any rejection or hesitation and it happened that Jesus never rebuked any one of them but instead blessed.

In the solid confession of Thomas in John 20:28 “My LORD and my GOD” ( Gk. The LORD of me the GOD of me) Jesus never rebuked Thomas but instead affirmed ” Thomas because you have seen Me,you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”John 20:29

[Oxy]

Amen jmsad07

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 06 2006,04:04)

That doesn't take away from God the Oneness, for Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One, yet the three are each “one” in their own right.

To Oxy

Looks like we and angels are God too according to your view:

John 10:34
Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods (theos)'

Psalm 97:7
All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you gods (elohim)!

Your statement above actually nullifies the word of God.

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”),
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Oxy, what is your advice. Should I believe that God is triune, or should I believe that there is one God the Father?

[Proclaimer]

Quote (jmsad07 @ Sep. 06 2006,05:44)

I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to Me every knee shall bow,every tounge shall take an oath. Isaiah 45:23 If we will compare this verse to Phill.2:10-11, it says; That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow , of those in heaven ,and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, And that every tounge shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

To jmsad07

So God swore by himself that every toungue should take an oath.

The oath being that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow , of those in heaven ,and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, And that every tounge shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Yes Jesus is the Lord, but it doesn't say we will confess that Jesus is God as I think you are teaching us to say.

We say that Jesus is Lord.
And this is done to glorify God.

Why?

Because God loves his son and gave him all things and if we do not honour his son, then we do not honour God his Father.

So how this teaches a Trinity is beyond me my friend.

This is what you should be confessing:
That Jesus Christ is Lord and that the Father is Jesus God and our God.

Even the verse you quoted says “to the glory of God, the Father”.

To confirm what I have written in defence of your babylonian doctrine, I give you the following scripture which most Trinitarians simply ignore:

1 Corinthians 8:6
6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

If you want a creed jmsad07, then what is wrong with 1 Corinthians 8:5-6. Why do you need something that is outside the scripture as your statement of faith?

[Mercy]

Oxy,

Maybe you have read this already, if not I think you will find it a very good definition of the conviction most of us non-trinitarians have.

I am not sure who wrote it, but I think they were wisely guided by the spirit when they did.

I have used this as a resource for showing friends and family my understanding of who Jesus is. It is amazing watching their faces as understanding takes it's hold.

https://heavennet.net/writings/trinity.htm

[Artizan007]

Here is a link by Charles Finney on the Trinity, and the Triad God's in almost every continent before and after Christ came. Also many Jewish writings about a trinity of sorts. I found it interesting… what do others think?

http://www.gospeltruth.net/1840skeletons/sk_lecture17.htm

[NickHassan]

Hi and welcome j,

You say
“With regard to your question, Does Worship of Jesus prove he is God? My answer is Yes.”

If Jesus is God who is the God of Jesus?
If Jesus is God then who is the Son of God?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
From Mr Finney on evidence for a trinity God.
He is trinitarian in his beliefs despite proclaiming his independance of thought
and presents no direct scriptural proofs,
as there are none,
relying on tired old inferential myths.

“4. If it be a fundamental doctrine, or a doctrine the belief of which is essential to salvation, it is reasonable to expect traditionary notices of it, where there are traditionary notices in heathen nations of other fundamental truths of revelation.”

And such evidence?
I will next refer you:

1. To intimations of this doctrine among ancient heathen nations, which I shall borrow from DWIGHT'S THEOLOGY, vol. 2, page 390:

(1.) “The Hindoos have, from the most remote antiquity, holden a Triad in the Divine nature.[“]

The name of the Godhead among these people is Brahme. The names of the three persons in the Godhead are Brahma, Veeshnu, and Seeva. Brahma they considered as the Father, or Supreme Source; Veeshnu as the Mediator, whom they assert to have been incarnate; and Seeva as the Destroyer, and Regenerator: destruction being in their view nothing but the dissolution of preceding forms, for the purpose of reviving the same being in new ones.

The three faces of Brahma, Veeshnu, and Seeva, they always formed on one body, having six hands; or two to each person. This method of delineating the Godhead is ancient beyond tradition, universal, uncontroverted, and carved every where in their places of worship; particularly in the celebrated cavern in the Island of Elephanta.

(2.) Equally well known is the Persian Triad; the names of which were ORMUSD, MITHR, AND AHRIMAN; called by the Greeks OROMASDES, MITHRAS, and ARIMANIUS. Mithras was commonly styled Triplasios. Among them, as well as among the Hindoos, the second person in the Triad was called the Mediator, and regarded as the great Agent in the present world.

In the Oracles ascribed to Zerdusht, or Zoroaster, the famous Persian Philosopher, are the following declarations:

'Where the Eternal Monad is, it amplifies itself, and generates a Duality.'

'A Triad of Deity shines forth throughout the whole world, of which a Monad is the head.'

'For the mind of the Father said, that all things should be divided into Three; whose will assented, and all things were divided.'

'And there appeared in this Triad, Virtue, Wisdom, and Truth, who knew all things.'

'The Father performed all things, and delivered them over to the Second mind, whom the nations of men commonly suppose to be the First.'

The third Person, speaking of himself, says, 'I Psyche, or Soul, dwell next to the Paternal mind, animating all things.'

(3.) The Egyptians, also, acknowledge a Triad, from the earliest antiquity, whom they named originally OSIRIS CNEPH, and PHTHA; and afterwards Osiris, Isis, and Typhon. These Persons they denoted by the symbols Light, Fire, and Spirit. They represented them, also, on the doors, and other parts of their sacred buildings, in the three figures of a Globe, a Wing, and a Serpent. Abenephius, an Arabian writer, says, that 'by these the Egyptians shadowed Theon trimorphon, or God in three forms.'

One of the Egyptian fundamental axioms of Theology, as given by Damascius, and cited by Cudworth, is, 'There is one Principle of all things, praised under the name of the Unknown Darkness, and this thrice repeated.'

In the Books, attributed to Hermes Trismegistus, is the following passage:

'There hath ever been one great, intelligent Light, which has always illumined the Mind; and their union is nothing else but the Spirit, which is the bond of all things.'

Here light and mind are spoken of as two Persons, and Spirit as the third; all declared to be eternal.

Jamblichus, a Platonic Philosopher, styled by Proclus the Divine, declares, that 'Hermes speaks of Eicton as the first of intelligences, and the first intelligible; and of Cneph, or Emeph, as the Prince of the Celestial Gods; and of the Demiurgic, or creating Mind, as a third to these.' Jamblichus calls these the Demiurgic Mind, the Guardian of Truth, and Wisdom.

(4.) The Orphic Theology, the most ancient recorded in Grecian history, taught the same doctrine.

In the abridgement of this Theology by Timotheus, the Chronographer, are found its most important and characteristical doctrines. Of these the fundamental one is, that an Eternal, Incomprehensible Being exists, who is the Creator of all things. This supreme and eternal Being is styled in this Theology, Phos, Boule, Zoe; Light, Counsel, Life.

Suidas, speaking of these three, says, 'they express only one and the same power.' Timotheus says further, that Orpheus declared, 'All things to have been made by One Godhead in three names; or rather by these names of One Godhead; and that this Godhead is all things.'

Proclus, a Platonic Philosopher, already mentioned, says, that Orpheus taught 'the existence of One God, who is the ruler over all things; and that this One God is three Minds, three Kings; He who is; He who has, or possesses; and He who beholds.['] These three Minds he declares to be the same with the Triad of Orpheus; viz: Phanes, Uranus, and Chronus.

(5.) The Greek Philosophers, also, extensively acknowledged a Triad.

Particularly, Pythagoras styled God to hen, or the Unity; and monas, or that which is alone; and also to agathon, or the good.[']

'From this Eternal Monad,' says Pythagoras, 'there sprang an infinite Duality; that is from Him, who existed alone, two proceeded, who were infinite.'

Plato also held a Triad; and named them to Agathon, the Good; Nous, or Logos, Mind, or Word; and Psuche kosmou, the Soul of the World. The to Agathon he also calls protos Theos, and megistos Theos.

Parmenides, the founder of the Eleatic Philosophy, says, The Deity is hen kai polla; one and many. Simplicius, commenting on Plato's exhibition of the doctrine of Parmenides, says, that 'these words were a description of the autou Ontos,' the true or original existence; and Plotinas[sic.] says, that Parmenides acknowledged three Divine Unities subordinated. The first Unity he calls the most perfectly and properly One; the second, One many; and the third, One and many. Plotinus further says, that Parmenides acknowledged a Triad of original Persons. Plotinus speaks of God as being 'the One, the Mind, and the Soul;' which he calls the original or principal persons. Amelius calls these Persons three Kings, and three Creators.

Numenius, a famous Pythagorean, acknowledged a Triad. The second Person he calls the Son of the first; and the third he speaks of, as proceeding also from the first.

(6.) In the Empires of Tibet and Tangut, a Triune God is constantly acknowledged in the popular religion. Medals, having the image of such a God stamped on them, are given to the people by the Delai Lama, to be suspended, as holy, around their necks, or otherwise used in their worship. These people also worshipped an idol, which was the representation of a three-fold God.

(7.) A medal, now in the Cabinet of the Emperor of Russia, was found near the River Kemptschyk, a branch of the Jenisea, in Siberia, of the following description:

A human figure is formed on one side, having one body and three heads. This person sits upon the cup of the Lotos; the common accompaniment of the Godhead in various Eastern countries; and on a sofa, in the manner of eastern kings. On the other side is the following inscription: 'The bright and sacred image of the Deity, conspicuous in three figures. Gather the holy purpose of God from them: love him.' A heathen could not more justly or strongly describe a Trinity.

(8.) The ancient Scandinavians acknowledged a Triad; whom they styled Odin, Frea, and Thor.

In the Edda, the most remarkable monument of Scandinavi
an Theology, Gangler, a Prince of Sweden is exhibited as being introduced into the hall or palace, of the gods. Here he saw three thrones raised one above another, and on each throne a sacred person. These persons were thus described to him by his guide: 'He, who sits on the lowest throne, is Har, or the Lofty One. The second is Jafn Har, or Equal to the Lofty One. He, who sits on the highest throne, is Thridi, or the Third.'

(9.) The Romans, Germans, Gauls, acknowledged a Triad, and worshipped a Triad, in various manners.

The Romans and Germans worshipped the Mairiæ; three goddesses inseparable, and always united in their worship, temples, and honors.

The Romans also, together with the Greeks and Egyptians, worshipped the Cabiri, or Three Mighty Ones.

The Diana of the Romans is stamped on a medal, as having three faces or three distinct heads, united to one form. On the reverse is the image of a man, holding his hand to his lips; under whom is this inscription: 'Be silent; it is a mystery.'

The German goddess Trygla, was drawn in the same manner.

The Gauls also, united their gods in triple groups, in a manner generally similar, as is evident from sculptures, either now or lately remaining.

(10.) The Japanese and Chinese anciently acknowledged a Triad.

The great image of the Japanese is one form, with three heads; generally resembling that of Brahma, Veeshnu, and Seeva, already described as worshipped by the Hindoos. The Chinese worshipped in ancient times one Supreme God, without images, or symbols of any kind. This worship lasted until after the death of Confucius, about 500 years before the birth of Christ.

Lao-Kiun, the celebrated founder of one of the philosophical, or religious sects, in China, delivered this, as the great leading doctrine of his philosophy: 'That the Eternal Reason produced One; One produced Two; Two produced Three; and Three produced All things.'

(11.) The American Nations also, have in several instances acknowledged a Triad.

The Iroquois hold, that before the creation, three Spirits existed; all of whom were employed in creating mankind.

The Peruvians adored a Triad, whom they styled the Father and Lord Sun, the Son Sun, and the Brother Sun.

In Cuquisaco, a province of Peru, the inhabitants worshipped an image, named Tangatanga; which in their language signifies One in Three, and Three in One.”

So Mr Finney attempts to show because pagan nations worship triune Gods that our God is triune. He seems to have an underlying thought that all religions are the same and all gods the same as our God.

I say because the truly 'godless' pagans worship triune idols
is even further evidence that such idolatrous concepts
have been brought into our understandings by their god,
the god of this world.

[NickHassan]

HI,
Mr Finney

“5. Ps. 45:7: “Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”

Here God, or Eloheim, addresses another Eloheim.”

Hello.
Scripture says it is Jesus-no problem there
And angels are called Eloheim so are they God?

“1. Isa. 48:16: “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit hath sent me.”

So Jesus, the Word of God, is sent by God from heaven,
and empowered and led by the Spirit of that God on earth-
even called HIS Spirit in this verse yet men think the Spirit is another person!

[NickHassan]

Hi
Mr Finney's folly continures
“2. Num. 6:24-26: “The Lord bless thee, and keep thee; the Lord make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee; the Lord lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.”

The repetition of the divine name, Jehovah, three times in this passage is very remarkable, and, as we shall by and by see, was understood by the Jews to intimate the doctrine of a divine Trinity.”

If the Lord God blesses anyone three times does that prove He is three? O dear.

Now where is the proof the Jewish people believed in a trinity God?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
More
“5. John 14:23: “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.”

Here Christ promises that himself and his Father will come and make their abode with those who love him. Other passages abundantly teach that they come in the person of the Holy Spirit.”  

So is he saying the Spirit is the Father and the Son in spirit?
I agree with that.
Then what of another third person called The Spirit?

“6. 2 Cor. 13:14: “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.”

This benediction appears to be a prayer addressed to the three persons of the God-head.”  

This is a prayer to a triune God?

No it is a blessing from Paul to the saints and shows God and his Son in heaven, from Whom, and through whom come all grace, extending that grace to men, through the Spirit in them on earth.

[Oxy]

Quote (t8 @ Sep. 05 2006,11:12)

Quote (Oxy @ Sep. 06 2006,04:04) That doesn't take away from God the Oneness, for Father, Son and Holy Spirit are One, yet the three are each “one” in their own right. To Oxy Looks like we and angels are God too according to your view: John 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods (theos)' Psalm 97:7 All who worship images are put to shame, those who boast in idols; worship him, all you gods (elohim)! Your statement above actually nullifies the word of God. 1 Corinthians 8:5-6 5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live. John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Oxy, what is your advice. Should I believe that God is triune, or should I believe that there is one God the Father?

Man you talk some rubbish. I have said none of the above, nor is it what I believe.

You still haven't explained Hebrews 1:8-9.

[Oxy]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 05 2006,20:14)

Hi, More “5. John 14:23: “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Here Christ promises that himself and his Father will come and make their abode with those who love him. Other passages abundantly teach that they come in the person of the Holy Spirit.” So is he saying the Spirit is the Father and the Son in spirit? I agree with that. Then what of another third person called The Spirit? “6. 2 Cor. 13:14: “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.” This benediction appears to be a prayer addressed to the three persons of the God-head.” This is a prayer to a triune God? No it is a blessing from Paul to the saints and shows God and his Son in heaven, from Whom, and through whom come all grace, extending that grace to men, through the Spirit in them on earth.

You quoted “6. 2 Cor. 13:14: “The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.”

So why is the Holy Spirit mentioned if He is not an identity, but part of God? Do you see the Holy Spirit as just a “force” as the JWs do? An “it”?

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