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and i kind of do consider jesus to be a prince… a prince takes over his fathers kingdom… jesus is taking over his fathers kingdom, the bible says that he sits at his right hand until all enemies are placed under his feet and then jesus will be made king over the earth…
Amen cam,
Then know and respect the Son
who is greater than all other sons of God,
The Prince of princes.but i dont see how it proves me wrong… it calls michael a great prince too… and even chief prince… yes we know there are many princes but if michael is chief prince and jesus is chief prince then i dont see how i can be wrong
Quote (camrezaie @ Aug. 25 2006,21:33) and i kind of do consider jesus to be a prince… a prince takes over his fathers kingdom… jesus is taking over his fathers kingdom, the bible says that he sits at his right hand until all enemies are placed under his feet and then jesus will be made king over the earth…
camrezaie,
And here is that King:Zechariah 14
1Behold, the day of the LORD [YHWH] cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3Then shall the LORD [YHWH] go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD [YHWH] my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD [YHWH], not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9And the LORD [YHWH] shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD [YHWH], and his name one.
10All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD [YHWH] will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD [YHWH] shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD [YHWH] of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD [YHWH]will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD [YHWH] of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD [YHWH] of hosts.camrezaie, you requested a scriptural verse in which Yahshua is called YHWH (Jehovah). I have just given you a whole chapter.
Can you give me a verse that states that Yahshua is Michael the archangel?
Amen Is 1.18,
Our God will return in the King he has appointed.
They are two as one,
united in eternal love.
Ps 2.1f
” 1Why are the nations in an uproar
And the peoples devising a vain thing?
2The kings of the earth take their stand
And the rulers take counsel together
Against the LORD and against His Anointed,…… 8'Ask of Me, and I will surely give the nations as Your inheritance,
And the very ends of the earth as Your possession.
9'You shall break them with a rod of iron,
You shall shatter them like earthenware.'”
10Now therefore, O kings, show discernment;
Take warning, O judges of the earth.
11Worship the LORD with reverence
And rejoice with trembling.
12Do homage to the Son, that He not become angry, and you perish in the way,
For His wrath may soon be kindled
How blessed are all who take refuge in Him! “
Nick you mentioned:
Dan 10.14
“13”But the prince of the kingdom of Persia was withstanding me for twenty-one days; then behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left there with the kings of Persia.”Can I ask who was being withstood here? Was it not the same man that was being described in verses 10:5-6, if so then who was he? The Prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood this person being described in the verse you mentioned. (I seem to remember these words from Daniel 10:5-6 elsewhere in Revelation 1)
What are your thoughts.
Camrezaie:
In Daniel 10:13 says that Michael was ONE of the Chief Princes; he was one of a few and not the only one – do you agree with this from what is written in the book of Daniel. Does this scripture contradict your post about Michael being the archangel – the highest of angels and the only one in that position. Just a thought.Hi A7,
Jesus clearly showed that Satan has a kingdom that is well organised.Lk 11.15f
” 15But some of them said, “He casts out demons by Beelzebul, the ruler of the demons.”16Others, to test Him, were demanding of Him a sign from heaven.
17But He knew their thoughts and said to them, “Any kingdom divided against itself is laid waste; and a house divided against itself falls.
18″If Satan also is divided against himself, how will his kingdom stand? For you say that I cast out demons by Beelzebul.”
The god of this earth has rebellious princes [eg the prince of Persia]under him who are influential in the life that is played out down here among the lives of men.
If you are not in Christ you are controlled by the spirit of the air. If you are not in the kingdom and obeying the Spirit you are following other spiritual influences.
Eph 2.1f
” 1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.”If your prince is not the prince of princes
then you are in the kingdom of darkness
following the wishes of another prince.Hey Nick,
Either I did not make myself clear or you wrongly read what I wrote, probably the first… I was asking who you thought the angel was who was speaking to Daniel in the verse you mentioned. The one that was being withstood, not about the prince of Persia who was doing the withstanding… I wanted to know who you thought was Speaking to Daniel. Is that clearer?
I believe Satan has a kingdom so no worries there…
I wanted to know who the angel was and if it is the same one that is spoken of in Daniel 10:4-6?
Hi Is 1:18
It is funny that the prophet Zechariah never once mentioned that this Lord GOD was the second person in a triune Godhead. I am sure all of Israel would have happily accepted a triune God if this was the case. God revealed himself as the ONE LORD, and not as the Triune God. If this were known to the Prophets of Old as you suggest, then why did the Israelites not believe in a triune God? Why did the prophets of old never fight for a triune God; surely in writing and being inspired by spirit of God they would have understood and would have done something about it, like you are doing today? To know something and to keep it hidden for thousands of years is folly…My questions then is, does God change, I dont think so… I am the LORD I change not… (Malachi 3). I can understand God revealing a different name in a given situation ie: the God who heals, or the God who is more then enough, but to be known as the ONE God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob to suddenly becoming the Three-in-One God of the Christian faith (or as I say the pick and mix God observing by how people pray today) – I find it absurd.
I dont believe God has changed, but I do believe that we have changed God to conform to our image of him, like the children of Israel did with the Calf and like we as humanity quite easily do in making Jesus God.
I am not beyond learning but you will need to help me understand this chapter in question if you want to convince me. I have never read it as being Jesus.
The Three in One God was never an issue of the early church, but early I mean up to around 120AD. The Jews would have fought this, but there was never an issue about Jesus being God but there was an issue about Jesus being the true Messiah that had been promised.
I personally do not believe that Z even thought what you are persuming that he was saying.
So it was not a vision of Jesus. Revelations 1:13 has the same image of Jesus, eyes like fire, gold shash etc…
Dan 10:5-6
5. Then I lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a certain man clothed in linen, whose loins were girded with fine gold of Uphaz: (a…: Heb. one man)6. His body also was like the beryl, and his face as the appearance of lightning, and his eyes as lamps of fire, and his arms and his feet like in colour to polished brass, and the voice of his words like the voice of a multitude.
Revelation 1:13-15
13. And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
14. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
15. And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Here is an interesting verse…
Revelation 19-1-6
5. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all His servants, and the ones fearing Him, the small and great.6. And I heard as the {sound of a great multitude}, [and] {as the sound of many waters}, and as the sound of strong thunders, saying, Hallelujah! For the Lord God omnipotent reigns!
Who was speaking here in this last verse, it came out of the throne – just an interesting verse I noticed but need to study further.
Hi A7,
The throne itself is discussed in the early chapters of Ezekiel and seems to be made up of living beings, Cherubim.Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 24 2006,20:43) I don't know why all the confusion. Scripture clearly points out that the Word was WITH God and WAS God. The Word gave up His deity to be born of Mary. At that point He became the only begotten of the Father. Before that there was no Father because He had no children, but He who was God submitted Himself to be born into this earth, the Firstborn of the Father. The Word (Jesus) has returned to the Father and has been given all authority. Because of this God is able to be the Father to His many children that He always wanted to be. Simple, no?
Hi Oxy,
Scripture says that the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON was sent into the world.
1Jn 4 9f
” 9By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.10In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins.”
So
the Son
was
a son.And other sons of God prior to even the foundation of the earth are shown in scripture before he came into the World.
Jb 38.4f
” 4″Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth?
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
5Who set its measurements? Since you know.
Or who stretched the line on it?
6″On what were its bases sunk?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7When the morning stars sang together
And all the sons of God shouted for joy?'They too were created through the firstborn Son.
The Voice in Revelation 1 was as the sound of many waters.
The Voice in Daniel 10 was as the sound of a great multitude
The Voice Revelation 19 was as the sound of a great multitude and as the sound of many waters.It is pretty evident to me that John is using imagery from Daniel and Zachariah to explain his vision in revelation… the imagery of the horses, the one like a son of man, the description of the son of man, the scroll, both John and Daniel are told not to disclose what has been told them at various times and told to shut the book, plus much more…
Where did the idea of the 1000 year reign of Christ come from does anyone know?
Hi,
The trinity theory is offensive
because it attacks the integrity of the Scriptures.
Scripture is the wisdom of God.Lk 11.49
“49”For this reason also the wisdom of God said,
'I will send to them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and some they will persecute,”Trinity doctrine says that we do not need the wisdom of God to be taught to us. We can derive teachings outside of the driect revelation of God's wisdom by applying human logic to scripture.
We must abhor what doctrines God has not shown us.
Only if we abide in the wisdom of God as his true sons can we expect that God would abide with us.
Lk 7
” 35″Yet wisdom is vindicated by all her children.”2Jn
” 9Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.”trinity denies Jesus is the Son of God
1 Jn 2.23f
” 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.”
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