The Trinity Doctrine

[camrezaie]

I am just spectating now.. who is the one trying to spur the most ridiculous ideas out of everyones comments here? who is the one making assumptions about peoples beliefs and ultimately not providing proof straight from the scriptures but from other random documents?

i cant believe people just dont want to accept the fact that theos does NOT mean almighty god… theos can mean divinelike, divine, a god, godly, a king, a ruler… satan was called a god in 2 cor 4:4, men were called gods in psalm 82:6, Paul was called a god somewhere too, im not using my bible right now so im just thinking of verses from the top of my head…. somewhere in isaiah i believe jesus is called “a mighty god”… does that say he is ALMIGHTY god? you just need to stop avoiding these facts…

think about this for two seconds, i might have said this before but this is a VERY strong point… John 10:33-36… Jesus was accused of blasphemy and claiming himself equal to god, correct? did jesus deny this blasphemy and say he was merely calling himself the son of god? he backed himself up by saying he cannot do anything of his own iniative, there were many verses that i cant think of where jesus denied the blasphemy clearly… wasnt jesus killed for blasphemy by the romans? what is the trinity doing? its putting blasphemy upon the name of Christ. its claiming him of equal rights and attributes of god…. why would i want to side with the beliefs of the romans who killed jesus? especially when it was jesus himself who denied this blasphemy… how do you expect to be on jesus's side when your actually siding with the beliefs of the roman's who killed him? for those of you who believe in the trinity, good luck gaining the favor of Jesus Christ with the beliefs of those who killed him :/ …

[camrezaie]

so i meant to say stop using John 1:1 as proof because of what i said up there…. and besides how can someone be with god and also be him at the same time… makes no sense… and if youll look at the greek scriptures youll see their is actually a clear distinction between the god used to describe almighty god and the god thats used for jesus… the last greek letter if changed… and if youll look at the greek text in any other place where they call jesus a god like in matthew 20:28 it uses the same wording as the one they use for the word in john 1:1, but if youll also notice they can refer to almighty god with this version of theos used for jesus too, HOWEVER, the version of theos used for almighty god is NEVER used for jesus… one can only say that almighty god is THE divine and he is also A divine… but you can only say that jesus is A divine and not THE divine by this….

[camrezaie]

excuse me i meant john 20:28 not matthew 20:28

[Oxy]

Quote (camrezaie @ Aug. 19 2006,21:33)

so i meant to say stop using John 1:1 as proof because of what i said up there…. and besides how can someone be with god and also be him at the same time… makes no sense… and if youll look at the greek scriptures youll see their is actually a clear distinction between the god used to describe almighty god and the god thats used for jesus… the last greek letter if changed… and if youll look at the greek text in any other place where they call jesus a god like in matthew 20:28 it uses the same wording as the one they use for the word in john 1:1, but if youll also notice they can refer to almighty god with this version of theos used for jesus too, HOWEVER, the version of theos used for almighty god is NEVER used for jesus… one can only say that almighty god is THE divine and he is also A divine… but you can only say that jesus is A divine and not THE divine by this….

It is beyond man to understand God. Hence the good healthy debate. There is so much we can derive from Scripture, there is so much we can derive from knowing Him, and the rest is speculation.

It is vanity to think we can understand God. He is far above us and His ways far beyond ours.

I have no difficulty with John 1:1, but having said that, I don't suggest that I understand it, but I accept it because it is Scripture and a very bold, provocative opening statement, designed I think to cause impact. LOOK, HERE IS THE WORD OF GOD, BORN AS JESUS!

Because Israel had always known of the Word of God, for Him suddenly to be with them in the flesh was indeed an awesome event! Hence the name immanuel, God with us!

[Proclaimer]

Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 20 2006,17:56)

LOOK, HERE IS THE WORD OF GOD, BORN AS JESUS! Because Israel had always known of the Word of God, for Him suddenly to be with them in the flesh was indeed an awesome event! Hence the name immanuel, God with us!

Hi Oxy,

Yes that is right, the Word became flesh. That much is certainly revealed in scripture.

Q: Now who was it who came in the flesh? Was it Jesus or God?
A: It was Jesus who came in the flesh. The antichrist spirit denies this of course.

Jesus is also called the “Word of God” even in the Book of Revelation, which describes Christ in glory. God himself is the Father.

Think about this:
No one recorded in the scriptures were waiting for God to come in the flesh were they. They knew that the messiah of God was going to come though. Is that not the true confession? Is this not what Peter declared and with what Jesus commended and built his Church on?

This messiah did not come in his own name but the name of his Father. He came to this world and guess what? God was in him.

2 Corinthians 5:19
that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

So if God was IN Christ redeeming the world back to himself, then who is Christ? Can you see how such an assumption just makes Jesus disappear? Or how can Almighty God be in Almighty God. That makes 2 Gods which is a breach of the first commandment.

When we deny that God was in Christ and instead say that Christ is God, then we have misplaced Jesus altogether and denied that he exists as another with whom God dwelt inside.

As someone once said “What have they done with our Lord”. They have somehow made him disappear.

Oxy, would you believe if I showed you a scripture that says that Christ isn't the Almighty God?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (camrezaie @ Aug. 19 2006,21:33)

so i meant to say stop using John 1:1 as proof because of what i said up there…. and besides how can someone be with god and also be him at the same time… makes no sense… and if youll look at the greek scriptures youll see their is actually a clear distinction between the god used to describe almighty god and the god thats used for jesus… the last greek letter if changed… and if youll look at the greek text in any other place where they call jesus a god like in matthew 20:28 it uses the same wording as the one they use for the word in john 1:1, but if youll also notice they can refer to almighty god with this version of theos used for jesus too, HOWEVER, the version of theos used for almighty god is NEVER used for jesus… one can only say that almighty god is THE divine and he is also A divine… but you can only say that jesus is A divine and not THE divine by this….

Hello camrezaie,
I wonder if you can clarify for me and Oxy exactly what you mean by what you wrote here (the highlighted part). I personally think you are just parroting the Watchtower argument, even though you appear clueless about the actual Greek in John 1:1 and John 20:28. I think you are well out of your depth, but we'll see I suppose….

In your own words can you plainly explicate the grammatical point you are trying to make.

Also, according to you how many divine beings exist?

[Is 1:18]

Hello t8,
Well it's been a week and by my reckoning you have yet to produce one verse that shows that there was a pre-incarnation begettal. Should I assume that the cornerstone of your entire Christology is totally unsupported by scripture?? Sure looks that way…..

I am also waiting for an answer to this question:

What does it mean that Yahshua is the Son of God?

Seminarian refused to answer this question, I hope you will show more courage.

[Proclaimer]

I asked you to first quote where I say this and then I will know what I am defending.

I await your quote, and then will explain what I wrote.

Jesus is the son of God means that he is of God. That he is God's offspring. However in his case he is the firstborn, the prototype.

[Proclaimer]

To Is 1:18.

BTW more than a week a go, perhaps a couple or a few weeks ago, I asked you to show why you do not see John 1:1c as qualitative even though that is grammatically and contextually possible even from your understanding of this verse.

I asked for your reason and to please not include bias as the reason. For surely you rest your doctrine on something greater than bias and bias proves nothing anyway.

Thanks.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2006,00:45)

I asked you to first quote where I say this and then I will know what I am defending. I await your quote, and then will explain what I wrote.

You demand a quote and then promtly give me one. Thanks for saving me the trouble of finding one. Here is what you are defending:

“Jesus is the son of God means that he is of God. That he is God's offspring. However in his case he is the firstborn, the prototype.”

If Jesus was God's offspring, and was before his incarnation,  then obviously He must have been 'begotten' before this incarnation. It stands to reason. But where is this begettal mentioned in scripture?

Quote

Jesus is the son of God means that he is of God. That he is God's offspring. However in his case he is the firstborn, the prototype.

If you study the OT and NT applications for the term 'first born', it soon become apparent that it has a applications outside of first progeny born:

For example, Ps 89.27 speaking of King David, the YOUNGEST or LAST BORN of Jesse says God will make him his firstborn:

Psalms 89:27
“I also shall make him My firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth.”

God calls Israel his firstborn:

Exodus 4:22
“Then you shall say to Pharaoh, 'Thus says the LORD, “Israel is My son, My firstborn.”

All Christians are called God’s firstborn:

Hebrews 12:23
”to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Biblically speaking, the term “first born” is frequently used to signify priority in importance or rank.

[Is 1:18]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2006,00:51)

To Is 1:18. BTW more than a week a go, perhaps a couple or a few weeks ago, I asked you to show why you do not see John 1:1c as qualitative even though that is grammatically and contextually possible even from your understanding of this verse. I asked for your reason and to please not include bias as the reason. For surely you rest your doctrine on something greater than bias and bias proves nothing anyway. Thanks.

I am still waiting for your admission that you have intentionally decieved possibly thousands of people by intimating that the article has any bearing on the correct rendering of the predicate nominative in John 1:1c. I''ll ask you again, is the article important? Yes or no.

When you fess up and confess that you have lied about the grammar in order to strengthen the validity of your argument we can move on to context.

[Oxy]

Quote (t8 @ Aug. 20 2006,00:15)

Quote (Oxy @ Aug. 20 2006,17:56) LOOK, HERE IS THE WORD OF GOD, BORN AS JESUS! Because Israel had always known of the Word of God, for Him suddenly to be with them in the flesh was indeed an awesome event! Hence the name immanuel, God with us! Hi Oxy, Yes that is right, the Word became flesh. That much is certainly revealed in scripture. Q: Now who was it who came in the flesh? Was it Jesus or God? A: It was Jesus who came in the flesh. The antichrist spirit denies this of course. Jesus is also called the “Word of God” even in the Book of Revelation, which describes Christ in glory. God himself is the Father. Think about this: No one recorded in the scriptures were waiting for God to come in the flesh were they. They knew that the messiah of God was going to come though. Is that not the true confession? Is this not what Peter declared and with what Jesus commended and built his Church on? This messiah did not come in his own name but the name of his Father. He came to this world and guess what? God was in him. 2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. So if God was IN Christ redeeming the world back to himself, then who is Christ? Can you see how such an assumption just makes Jesus disappear? Or how can Almighty God be in Almighty God. That makes 2 Gods which is a breach of the first commandment. When we deny that God was in Christ and instead say that Christ is God, then we have misplaced Jesus altogether and denied that he exists as another with whom God dwelt inside. As someone once said “What have they done with our Lord”. They have somehow made him disappear. Oxy, would you believe if I showed you a scripture that says that Christ isn't the Almighty God?

t8, at no stage have I ever said that Jesus, or the Word of God, is Almighty God. I don't know where you got that from.

Blessings.

[Is 1:18]

Hi Oxy,
Either Christ is fully God or He is not God in any respect, scripture allows no middle ground at all. I’ll show you why:

Deuteronomy 6:4,5
4Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: 5And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

And;

Isaiah 43:10,11
10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. 11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

And;

Isaiah 44:6,8
6Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God. 7And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them. 8Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.

And;

Isaiah 45:5,14,18,21,22
5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:… 14Thus saith the LORD, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God… 18For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else…. 21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me….. 22Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

And;

Isaiah 46:9
Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

And;

Galatians 3:20
Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

And;

Ephesians. 4:4-6
4There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And;

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

Also see: Deu 4:35, 39; 32:39, 2Sa 22:32, Isa 37:20; Joh 5:44; Rom 3:30; 16:27; 1 Cr 8:4-6; 1 Ti 1:17, 2:5; Jud 1:25…..

So there cannot be a primary and a secondary God because there is only one God – He is in a metaphysical category by Himself, scripture couldn’t be clearer on this matter. There is one God and everything else is creation. All other “gods” are false gods (idols) and not really gods at all.

Galatians 4:8-9
8Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. 9But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Also see: Deu 32:21, 1 Sa 21:21; Ps 96:5; Isa 37:19; 41:23-24, 29; Jer 2:11; 5:7; 16:20; 1 Cr 8:4; 10:19-20

You can play semantics with the appelatives “Mighty” and “Almighty” until the cows come home, as the Watchtower often does, but you cannot escape the conclusion that, scripturally speaking, there is:

Only One God, and

None like Him.

Blessings

[seminarian]

Quote (Is 1:18 @ Aug. 20 2006,00:33)

Hello t8, Well it's been a week and by my reckoning you have yet to produce one verse that shows that there was a pre-incarnation begettal. Should I assume that the cornerstone of your entire Christology is totally unsupported by scripture?? Sure looks that way….. I am also waiting for an answer to this question: What does it mean that Yahshua is the Son of God? Seminarian refused to answer this question, I hope you will show more courage.

Is,

I've been away and the website was down for a few days also so please do not lie and say I refused to answer anything.  You never answered my two simple questions which I asked first a LONG time ago when I came to this board.

1.) Does the Lord Jesus have a God”

2.) Does God the Father have a god?”

Yahvahshua as the Son of God means just what it says.  The Father is the Begetter and His Son Jesus is the one who is begotten.  He is the only begotten of the Father and thus a unique monogene or one of a kind.  Read also the genelogy of Jesus in the book of Luke, third chapter.  Last verse, 38 shows that ADAM is also called the son of God.  Christ is called the LAST ADAM.  What do you think that means, Is?

See you are exchanging the meaning of the Son of God for “God the Son” which is NOT in the Bible at all.  Do you think it pleases God to add words, phrases and titles He did not inspire anyone to write in the Bible?

Now would YOU like to finally show some courage and answer my two questions using scripture?  No extra-Biblical doctrines such as the so called dual nature of Christ nonsense is allowed either.  Your answer must be from scripture.

Oh for your rambling post above, (wasn't sure where you were going with all that), here's what the scripture says of who God is:

“Yet for us there is but ONE God, the Father…and but one Lord, Jesus Christ…”  [1 Corn 8:6]

Doesn't get any clearer than that my friend.

Bless ya',

Semmy

[Is 1:18]

Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 20 2006,04:03)

Is, I've been away and the website was down for a few days also so please do not lie and say I refused to answer anything.  You never answered my two simple questions which I asked first a LONG time ago when I first came to this board. 1.) Does the Lord Jesus have a God”     2.) Does God the Father have a god?”

That is untrue Seminarian, I answered those question on the third post of page four of the Heb 1:8 thread (click here)

Actually, to the best of my knowledge, every active trinitarian that you have posed those questions to have directly answered them, showing you unequivically that it's not at all good evidence against the trinity doctrine. So you can abandon that line of questioning and start thinking of a better one.

If you follow my link you will also note that I answered every question from your post to me on pg 2 of the above mentioned thread (click here) and only asked you two in return, but they were ignored so I had to reiterate them on page 5. They were still ignored Seminarian. So to refresh your memory, here they are again:

Quote

So Seminarian, the two questions I would like you to answer for me are: 1. What kind of being was the pre-incarnate Logos? 2. Can you point me to a verse that shows that the Father was always the Logos' God? Thanks and regards Is 1:18

Looking forward to hearing back from you with some answers Seminarian (but not holding my breath)

[seminarian]

Is,

You call this an answer to my question: “Does Jesus have a God?”

“Jesus has a God because He is also a man, born of woman and born under the law (Gal. 4:4). As a man, if He does not have His Father as His God, and all that that entails, He would have been a transgressor of that law. Is His Father a man? No. That is why He doesn’t have a God, Seminarian. It's really quite simple.” END

This is simple? This is the same dual nature of Jesus garbage that is not in the Bible!!! Didn't I just say your answer had to be from the Bible? His Father couldn't be a man? Who said he was? This is nothing but doublespeak nonsense. “Uh, yeah he has a God but no he really doesn't have a God in the true sense.” What

So Jesus is a liar when he STILL says he has both a God and Father AFTER he has returned to Heaven? Why would he need to say that now? He's no longer a man, right?

Get your Bible out now:

Read Revelation 3:12. Here the Lord Jesus is EXALTED and in Heaven and he says:

Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD..

He says this three times in this verse alone. Below this is being said OF Christ in Revelation 1:6..

“..and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve HIS GOD AND FATHER…”

Last of all our Lord is STILL being given Revelations by God the Father….BACK IN HEAVEN:

The revelations of Jesus Christ which GOD GAVE HIM. Rev. 1:1

So your answer just doesn't hold water. He is no longer “a man” as he has returned
to heaven. So why is he still calling Yahweh his Father and God? You know what? I'm going
to believe what comes out of my Lord Jesus' mouth over yours. You've only spoken gibberish.
The Lord's words are clear also when he said that his Father is the ONLY TRUE GOD. (John 17:3)

Jesus said, “Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the ONLY true God AND Jesus Christ whom You have sent.”

The Lord Jesus is here referring to someone other than himself as the ONLY TRUE GOD, (the Father), which means there can be no others. He then lists himself seperately as the one whom the Father has sent. Now that's Very simple.

Summary: You can't be God or equal to God and HAVE A GOD at the same time. Your dual nature answer is simply smouldering in flames here. I told you not to use extra-Biblical doctrines but just like a trained seal you jumped right according to hand signals! Your mind is so preprogrammed that I can tell what you are going to write before you even type it.

Your two questions are irrelevant because it assumes the logos is referring to a pre-incarnate being in the first place. The scriptures do not conclude such as capitilaztions have been placed there by the translators which were not present in the original Greek.

Nice try. Stop wasting your time.

Unbelieveable,

Semmy

[Is 1:18]

Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 20 2006,04:03)

Yahvahshua as the Son of God means just what it says.  The Father is the Begetter and His Son Jesus is the one who is begotten.  He is the only begotten of the Father and thus a unique monogene or one of a kind.  Read also the genelogy of Jesus in the book of Luke, third chapter.

Seminarian, so did the begettal happan before the incarnation? That's interesting, what have you read in scripture that has led you to this conclusion?

Quote

See you are exchanging the meaning of the Son of God for “God the Son” which is NOT in the Bible at all.  Do you think it pleases God to add words, phrases and titles He did not inspire anyone to write in the Bible?

Although I don't use that title personally, I have no problem with anyone else using it. Scripture ascribes the titles “God” and “Son” to Yahshua, so a composite title is perfectly legitimate.

Quote

Now would YOU like to finally show some courage and answer my two questions using scripture?  No extra-Biblical doctrines such as the so called dual nature of Christ nonsense is allowed either.  Your answer must be from scripture.

I have answered your questions. My courage in answering questions is not in question here Seminarian.

Quote

Oh for your rambling post above, (wasn't sure where you were going with all that), here's what the scripture says of who God is: “Yet for us there is but ONE God, the Father…and but one Lord, Jesus Christ…”  [1 Corn 8:6]

Are “theos” and “kurios” used by Paul in 1 Cr 8:6 to draw an ontological contra-distinction between Yahshua and His Father?

Yes

No

(Please provide your rationale.)

I have also addressed this verse in the post I wrote on page four of the Heb 1:8 thread. I am still awaiting your rebuttal.

Quote

Doesn't get any clearer than that my friend.

I believe you need to start thinking these verses through properly Seminarian.

[NickHassan]

Hi Is,
“Either Christ is fully God…”
Now what on earth does this mean.
Can God not beget a son in His image ?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (seminarian @ Aug. 20 2006,05:08)

Is, You call this an answer to my question: “Does Jesus have a God?” “Jesus has a God because He is also a man, born of woman and born under the law (Gal. 4:4). As a man, if He does not have His Father as His God, and all that that entails, He would have been a transgressor of that law. Is His Father a man? No. That is why He doesn’t have a God, Seminarian. It's really quite simple.” END This is simple?  This is the same dual nature of Jesus garbage that is not in the Bible!!!  Didn't I just say your answer had to be from the Bible?  His Father couldn't be a man?  Who said he was?

You may not like the answer, but nonetheless you have been answered. I disagree that it's not scriptural, it is. Many passages in scripture attest to His divinity and humanity. Gal 4:4 shows that He was born under the law. Had His Father not been His God He would have been a transgressor of that Law. This submission was utterly necessary for our redemption.

Quote

This is nothing but doublespeak nonsense.  “Uh, yeah he has a God but no he really doesn't have a God in the true sense.”  What

I didn't write that. Please do not misquote me Seminarian, it is sinful to bear false witness, remember?.

Quote

So Jesus is a liar when he STILL says he has both a God and Father AFTER he has returned to Heaven?  Why would he need to say that now?  He's no longer a man, right? Get your Bible out now: Read Revelation 3:12.  Here the Lord Jesus is EXALTED and in Heaven and he says: Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of MY GOD.. He says this three times in this verse alone.  Below this is being said OF Christ in Revelation 1:6.. “..and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve HIS GOD AND FATHER…” Last of all our Lord is STILL being given Revelations by God the Father….BACK IN HEAVEN: The revelations of Jesus Christ which GOD GAVE HIM. Rev. 1:1 So your answer just doesn't hold water.  He is no longer “a man” as he has returned to heaven.

Please show me where I have written, or intimated, that Yahshua is “no longer a man”. It seems to me that you have jumped to that conclusion, even though I have told you otherwise:

From Page 4, Heb 1:8 thread:

Quote Seminarian:
Our Lord Jesus always has been and always will be subject to the Father.  However, God the Father is subject to NO ONE.  Nice try though.

Quote Is 1:18
I agree that Yahshua will always be subject to His father, but if you are asserting that the Lord always was subject to Him (i.e. before the incarnation) then I disagree and would like you to substantiate this, if you can. Can you point me to a verse that shows that the Father was also the pre-incarnate Logo’s God?

Quote

So why is he still calling Yahweh his Father and God?  You know what?  I'm going to believe what comes out of my Lord Jesus' mouth over yours.  You've only spoken gibberish.

You have not even come close to accurately representing my position Seminarian. Please try to gain an understanding before making your assessments of it in future.

Quote

Summary:  You can't be God or equal to God and HAVE A GOD at the same time.

Oh really. Why not? (remember – being a monotheist, I don't hold to the existence of two Gods, but two personages)

Quote

Your dual nature answer is simply smouldering in flames here.  I told you not to use extra-Biblical doctrines but just like a trained seal you jumped right according to hand signals!  Your mind is so preprogrammed that I can tell what you are going to write before you even type it.

Okay Seminarian, prove me wrong, the onus is now on you to show me and others that Christ could not have had a dual nature.

Quote

Your two questions are irrelevant because it assumes the logos is referring to a pre-incarnate being in the first place.

I think you are afraid to answer any questions from me because the flaws in your theology will be exposed for all to see. But maybe you will surprise me one day…..

BTW, is it your understanding that Yahshua did not pre-exist His incarnation? Please clarify this for me.

Quote

The scriptures do not conclude such as capitilaztions have been placed there by the translators which were not present in the original Greek.

He he…are capitals used at all in kione Greek?

[Is 1:18]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Aug. 20 2006,05:38)

Hi Is, “Either Christ is fully God…” Now what on earth does this mean. Can God not beget a son in His image ?

The question is not “Can God beget a Son [before the incarnation]”, of course He could have done this, the question IS “Did He” beget a Son [before the incarnation]”

I am open minded on this, but someone will need to give me a verse(s) that:

1) Describes, or alludes to, the pre-incarnation begettal of The Word.

or;

2) Shows that the title “Son of God” means pre-incarnate progeny of God.

I'm going to need some scripture to convince me, so far there has been none forthcoming.

[Author]

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