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True, Woutlaw & Nick.
Truth is way more important than most think.
If it is not truth, then it is not of God.Simple as that.
Dear Woutlaw,
We know the truth brother and we must pray for the rest. I attribute allot of the problem it because of the interference of the enemy, the devil. And part is doctrincation. And part is spiritual growth. Here is the problem. If a seed is planted and it starts to grow, the seed being a new believer, if they get involved in a church that teaches unsound doctrine, often times it can cause them to backslide or make them weary of religion altogether. The spiritual growth becomes deformed or stunted or dead. I believe this is the result of man turning from the word of God. You mark my word. The further man gets from the KJ bible, the more evil he will become.
Hi H,
We do not worship a bible version nor should we. It too comes through the hands of fallible men.Hey heiscomingintheclouds,
I personally do not agree with your statement regarding the KJV.
Why don't you start up a discussion regarding the KJV?
Quote (malcolm ferris @ June 07 2006,22:49) Can Jesus save whom he will? (JOHN 14:6 )
Or does he save whom the Father draws? (JOHN 6:44)You cannot have eternal life unless you get it through Jesus
You cannot come to Jesus for eternal life, unless God draws you. (JOHN 6:37-40 )Quote Being given eternal life does not make us as God having always existed but does make us like Him from then on in that way. Didn't say having eternal life makes us God, there is but One God. I completely agree we become as He is, like Him, but we do not become Him.
And He is always before us, and above us, even as Jesus – who is not the Eternal One – but who pre-dates us as to existence – is before us and above us.Quote …and it is he who comes to bring life to men , not the Father… If Jesus does it, the Father does it as far as I am concerned. Why? Because he only works according to his Father's will.
When he was here in his flesh he said: “…I work and hitherto my Father works…”
Hi Malcolm,
Jesus is the WAY to God and brings from God to us good things.
A FATHER DOES NOT GIVE SCORPIONS TO HIS CHILDREN
and our Father wants us to have good things, a share in His Spirit in His Son.
We have to go to that gate believing and repentant and be baptised into Christ to be safe in that vine.Hi Nick
What is it that makes Jesus and His Father one?
Their perfect harmony as to will and purpose. Jesus truly is the image of the invisible God
for what he does is in perfect accord with his Father.
That is why I asy if the son does it the Father does it effectively.Quote A FATHER DOES NOT GIVE SCORPIONS TO HIS CHILDREN Well obviously Nick – let no man say when he is tempted I am tempted of God for God tempts no man.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 07 2006,20:00) Hi Malcolm,
He Who Is Spirit and Eternal Life can give life to any being that He chooses to.
Jn 5.24
“Him Who sent me has eternal Life”[2222]
Jn 521
“also give life[2222] to whom He wishes”
Jn 5.26
“as the Father has life[2222] in Himself”
Jn 5.26
“The Son also to have life[2222]in himself”
Jn 6.63
“It is the Spirit who gives life[[2222]”He has given for the Son to have eternal life. In him is life[Jn 1.14[2222],1 Jn 5,.11[2222]
For men to have that life they must come to Jesus. He is the way, the truth and the Life [2222]and the resurrection and the life[2222]. He is the Prince of Life[2222]
If a being is eternal life and that life is given to another as to the Son in the beginning, then that being cannot spiritually die. Jesus partook of condemned flesh and that flesh died as it must but he lived.
If we come to the Son and are reborn of his eternal life then we cannot spiritually die either but have eternal life. What life we did not have we now have and thence we have eternal life.
Being given eternal life does not make us as God having always existed but does make us like Him from then on in that way.
This should continue perhaps in the LIFE thread.
Jesus is the medaitor between us and God , who is the Father, and it is he who comes to bring life to men , not the Father. Without Him no man could approach the Father. They were terrified even to approach the mountain of which God manifested a tiny amount of His glory and power. Jesus is not that God but his vessel carried the full measure of God's manifold Spirit to reveal God to men. Trinity is a fabricated nonsense.
Just a thought
Does Jesus ever do anything or make any decision contrary to God's will? – I don't believe so.
So if the Son quickens whom he will, is it not that he wants to quicken all whom God wants quickened?
Are not their two wills perfectly in harmony?Hi Malcolm,
The Life that the Son gives
was given to him.He is in the Father and the Father is in him.
Why have we gotten off the denominations theme? Shouldn't the Trinity be in Biblical Discussions?
I have a sugesstion since the Trinity always find's it's way through ALL of the site may be the Trinity should have it's own cateragory (you know a special place) plus Biblical Discussion may be that would suffice the matter.
I posted this in General Questions but may be it should have been posted in Feedback & Suggesstions because it does in a way speak again of “denominations”.
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David,If we don't “have” the truth, at least we know what it is then, based on what you said. We have all the definitions of every word. “Truth” is in the Bible. So we know what truth is. (I know this isn't really on topic, but it made me smile, so I had to say something.)
You know what the truth is but you don't have it. “So we know what truth is” You have every definition of every word but the JWs misss the “spiritual” part of God's Word which is the most important part. If you have the Spirit (who bears witness with the Word) even if there were no New Testament the Spirit would GUIDE YOU TO ALL TRUTH ( John 16:13). Without the Spirit their would be no WORD. Men were inspired by the Holy Spirit. So if you don't have the Holy Spirit (and the JWs don't) then you are trying to understand a book wtitten by the Spirit by using “MANS” method. Which concerning Spiritual matters is always WRONG. If you had the Spirit (David) you woud know this.
It is really sad what Satan has accomplished with the JWs. So I'm NOT smiling
The JWs certainly have one of the obvious traits of her Mother The Catholic church they too are the only true church and IF you don't join them then you're doomed. Isn't that right David?It IS funny that though NO denominations are allowed YET David and the Witnessess ARE.
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:True this is about the Trinity doctrine.
However because this doctrine formed the creeds, it may spill over to the subject of denominations as most are founded on the Trinity doctrine or a creed that has the Trinity doctrine as it's main pillar.
But yes the focus should the the Trinity doctrine.
Hi t8,
Yes.
The trinity doctrine has maintained an almost unchallenged supremacy in the minds of men for 1800 years, generation after generation despite schisms and splits and even acrimonious hatred, warfare and murder between opposing groups. Amazing the power of Satan over the minds of men.Now they want to all come together back under the wing of Rome as the ecumenical movement.
Hi t8,
If apostasy is the rejection of truth then it is 1800 years old. Coming together-I do not know if it changes anything except gives men the clear choice between Christ and the whore.The rejection of truth happened a long time ago.
The sin of man will be fully known in time and will culminate to the man of sin.Perhaps the fruit of apostacy will demonstrate this rejection more clearly to many. It seems that more people are starting to wake up so to speak. At some point there will be a collision of ideals regarding the Kingdom of God.
We need to make sure that we are listening to what God is saying and not what men think is a good idea. For this is the collision that must take place. Ultimately it is about what God says and wills and what men do in their own name.
We have seen centuries of man's way of governing the Church. Surely it is about time for many to realise that is not working. Look at the path of destruction men have left over the centuries in the name of their religion. Death, deception, in fact every sin imaginable.
We must move off this foundation and onto the foundation that will not fail. Nor do we want to be judged by building our works on an apostate foundation. The foundation we need to build on is of the Apostles, prophets, with Jesus as the chief corner stone. It is not the Nicene Creed, so-called Apostles Creed, not even the Trinity doctrine. It is not the Catholic Church, the Jehovah Wintnesses, or any other denomiantion or cult.
The Kingdom of God is in the Church and the Church is on this earth. The Kingdom is inside us. Do not let the Devil make you think the Kingdom is your denomination, or this so-called church or that one. The kingdom is inside you if you are born-again of the Spirit of God.
If we are led by the Spirit then we are the children of God. Those who think the children of God are a particular denomination or creed are deluded.
The Kingdom of God cannot be molded into the shape or image of mens minds or hands. It is simply this:
It is what God reveals it to be.
God reveals things to me in different ways. One of those ways is scripture and another is through the ministries and gifts that he has given to men. These 2 will never contradict.
Scripture tells us that there is one God. In the NT it is even more specific, “there is one God the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ”. True faith cannot contradict the commandments nor scripture. The Trinity doctrine does both.
We need to shun the works of men for they are apostate. It is only that which is done by leading of God's Spirit that is true.
Quote (kenrch @ June 11 2006,15:09) I have a sugesstion since the Trinity always find's it's way through ALL of the site may be the Trinity should have it's own cateragory (you know a special place) plus Biblical Discussion may be that would suffice the matter.
Goog idea.I will put it to a vote in the Feedback section.
Kenrch, you seem to use quotes in a way no one else does. Just wondering what your purpose was adding the above quote that you did?
Quote (david @ June 13 2006,01:11) Kenrch, you seem to use quotes in a way no one else does. Just wondering what your purpose was adding the above quote that you did?
Is something bothering you, David?Hi,
Trinity is a not a biblical teaching.
If you accept this teaching you are not abiding in the Word of God. The God you will learn about is not the God of the bible. You have gone beyond the teaching of Christ and so you do not have the Father or the Son.[2jn]
Repent. Retrace your steps. Build only on the founadtion which is sound-the Word of God.Hi,
1 Thess 1 .9
” For they, themselves report what kind of reception we had with you,
and how you turned from idols to serve a living and true God,
and to wait for His Son from heaven,
whom He raised from the dead,
that is Jesus,
who rescues us from the wrath to come”So for us there is only one true and living God, the Father
All others to us are idols and we have turned from them
He has a Son sent from heaven, whose name is Jesus
We wait for his return from heaven.
He will save us from the wrath of God
that all who refuse that message must endure.1Jn 5.21
” Little children, guard yourself from idols.”trinity is one such idol.
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