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Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 23 2005,23:02) Hi FYI,
Was Jesus Christ any different to us as a child or a young adult in your view? Did he have the power then?
The incarnation of Jesus Christ , tha son of God, is a wonderful event that enabled God's plan to be fulfilled but it did not bring God's power to the people. He was still like us, a vessel and an utterly magnificent one in a body, till he was Baptised and filled with the Spirit of God which brought God and His power to men. It was not his nature that did the work but God in him and he worked “by the finger of God”. Likewise “God is at work in us to will and to do”, by that same Spirit.Do you agree?
Nick,This gets into the doctrine in the bible from the Greek word kenosis and is taken from yours and my favorite verses which cause soo much contention – Phillipians 2:1-7
You with me?
Can we be civil?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2005,00:08) Always.
Nick,You said:
“The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of his Son. Jesus was born with his own spirit like any of us, and like us was filled with the Spirit of God which was his power. That Spirit of God can now be called the Spirit of Christ as well.
Do you think we are filled with two Spirits?”The Holy Spirit rested upon Christ – it was NOT who He is:
Isaiah 11:2 – And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Horns are symbols of power and authority in all prophetic cases. Christ is identified as having seven horns:
Revelation 5:6 – And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
With me?
also:
Revelation 1:4 – John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
Revelation 3:1 – And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Revelation 4:5 – And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God.
*BUMP*
Hi FYI,
I gues it come down to whose work was being done while Christ was on earth.
Was Christ doing the work in his own strength and power?
Which begs the question of how you understand the work of the Holy Spirit and baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Does it change us as at Pentecost?
Was Christ baptised in the Spirit and did it change him?
If so how?
If there was a change whence did that change come from?
Did that change come from a change to Jesus Christ or did the spirit produce change in Christ?Of course it does get complicated when you say that Christ and the Spirit are one and the same anyway so how can one person baptise another in itself?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2005,00:22) Hi FYI,
I gues it come down to whose work was being done while Christ was on earth.
Was Christ doing the work in his own strength and power?
Which begs the question of how you understand the work of the Holy Spirit and baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Does it change us as at Pentecost?
Was Christ baptised in the Spirit and did it change him?
If so how?
If there was a change whence did that change come from?
Did that change come from a change to Jesus Christ or did the spirit produce change in Christ?Of course it does get complicated when you say that Christ and the Spirit are one and the same anyway so how can one person baptise another in itself?
That's why I said it is arrogant to try and define God – it is only going to get worse not better – so we have to let scripture and the Holy Spirit teach us – these things CANNOT be understood in our human mind.That is where I was heading in the other post about the disciples.
Christ told them the words but until they are “made” life to the hearer by the Holy Spirit then they are just lifeless words. The difference is being taught of the Spirit – the word in the greek is rehma (I think that's how you spell it)
Rehma refers to the revealed word – the word that is made alive by the spirit. Jesus was waiting for the Spirit to make the word alive!
OK?
Hi,
not really FYI,
All that has to be decided is whether Christ moved in his own power or the power of His Father? That power is by the Spirit of power, the Holy Spirit of God.Yes the word must take root and that is only possible if the land is ploughed and the soil is good and soaks up the rain falling on it.
Then as Paul said of the growth of the Spirit of Christ in us,”it is no longer I that liveth but Christ that liveth in me”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2005,00:31) Hi,
not really FYI,
All that has to be decided is whether Christ moved in his own power or the power of His Father?
Nick,We're getting there – but the question is also who is He – spiritually?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2005,00:38) Yes we are always going to stumble over that gulf of understanding.
I do not want to cut corners and get right to the answer without the scriptural foundation.Do you?
Well FYI,
You believe that Christ is and has never been separate from the Father.Right?
So anointing by the Holy Spirit to which you also believe Christ has been connected cannot change that situation?Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2005,00:43) Well FYI,
You believe that Christ is and has never been separate from the Father.Right?
So anointing by the Holy Spirit to which you also believe Christ has been connected cannot change that situation?
I guess you want to cut corners – well I don't. So if you do not understand the scripture we have already gone over to build a foundation then we cannot continue.*BUMP*
Quote (Guest @ June 24 2005,00:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2005,00:08) Always.
Nick,You said:
“The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of his Son. Jesus was born with his own spirit like any of us, and like us was filled with the Spirit of God which was his power. That Spirit of God can now be called the Spirit of Christ as well.
Do you think we are filled with two Spirits?”The Holy Spirit rested upon Christ – it was NOT who He is:
Isaiah 11:2 – And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Horns are symbols of power and authority in all prophetic cases. Christ is identified as having seven horns:
Revelation 5:6 – And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
With me?
Hi FYI,
Ez 36.27 promised thegift of the indwelling SpiritJesus was filled with the Spirit[Lk 4.1]
The apostles were all filled with ths Spirit[Acts 2.4,13.52,Rom 8.9, eph 5.18] as was Peter[Acts 4.8]Stephen[Acts 7.55]Paul[Acts 9.17,13.9]Barnabas[Acts 11.24]etc
The One Spirit has many manifestations-wisdom, knowledge Faith,healing, powers[1Cor 12]
Nick,
That is correct, but Christ had the Spirit “without measure” – the full and complete authority of God.
Quote (Guest @ June 24 2005,02:53) Nick, That is correct, but Christ had the Spirit “without measure” – the full and complete authority of God.
John 17:5 – And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.Glory:
Main Entry: 1glo·ry
Pronunciation: 'glOr-E, 'glor-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural glories
Etymology: Middle English glorie, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French, from Latin gloria
1 a : praise, honor, or distinction extended by common consent : RENOWN b : worshipful praise, honor, and thanksgiving
2 a : something that secures praise or renown b : a distinguished quality or asset
3 a (1) : great beauty and splendor : MAGNIFICENCE (2) : something marked by beauty or resplendence b : the splendor and beatific happiness of heaven; broadly : ETERNITY
4 a : a state of great gratification or exaltation b : a height of prosperity or achievementQuote (Guest @ June 24 2005,02:53) Nick, That is correct, but Christ had the Spirit “without measure” – the full and complete authority of God.
Hi FYI,
Yes. God was in heaven but of Jesus it is said
Coll 1.8
” For IN HIM all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form”So he revealed the full power and loving nature of God in him by the Spirit of the Father in him, the finger of God.
Quote (Guest @ June 24 2005,03:05) Quote (Guest @ June 24 2005,02:53) Nick, That is correct, but Christ had the Spirit “without measure” – the full and complete authority of God.
John 17:5 – And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.Glory:
Main Entry: 1glo·ry
Pronunciation: 'glOr-E, 'glor-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural glories
Etymology: Middle English glorie, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French, from Latin gloria
1 a : praise, honor, or distinction extended by common consent : RENOWN b : worshipful praise, honor, and thanksgiving
2 a : something that secures praise or renown b : a distinguished quality or asset
3 a (1) : great beauty and splendor : MAGNIFICENCE (2) : something marked by beauty or resplendence b : the splendor and beatific happiness of heaven; broadly : ETERNITY
4 a : a state of great gratification or exaltation b : a height of prosperity or achievement
Hi FYI,
Here the faithful Jesus, having emptied himself of his own power and glory to be a vessel for his Father on earth and successfully completed his mission asks his Father God for a restoration of what he had with God in the beginning.God does answer and he receives far more than he had before. He is now more than just the firstborn Son but a proven obedient servant worthy of everything God can give him. He is now at the right hand of God in glory.
Quote (Guest @ June 24 2005,00:17) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 24 2005,00:08) Always.
Nick,You said:
“The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of his Son. Jesus was born with his own spirit like any of us, and like us was filled with the Spirit of God which was his power. That Spirit of God can now be called the Spirit of Christ as well.
Do you think we are filled with two Spirits?”The Holy Spirit rested upon Christ – it was NOT who He is:
Isaiah 11:2 – And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
Horns are symbols of power and authority in all prophetic cases. Christ is identified as having seven horns:
Revelation 5:6 – And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
With me?
Hi,
I did not say Jesus was the Spirit. He was the vessel for the Spirit of the Lord.
That vessel was his body, which died and his soul and spirit which was his living personal nature from the beginning.
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