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Do realize that when Yahweh states he is God of gods he is essentially stating he is the God of those who behave in a godly manner. That is why he also calls the angels gods but when he uses the title he is speaking to Hebrews and commanding them to obey the Law if they want to be his worshipers.
The use of gods is the same as in the passage Jesus stated that Yahweh called the group that receive the word, the Hebrews, gods. God does it in at least one other passage as well.
Interesting in itself though it does not resolve the situation of your chose doctrine being broken.
I have to disagree Kerwin. Once the disciples turned to Jesus, they no longer were Jews, Messianic yes, a true Jew no. You know well enough they are still waiting for their messiah to come. That is their faith. However I do agree that there are too many rituals & traditions held by many religions that are just smoke and mirrors. What you going to do Kerwin.
I do so enjoy talking about the Sabbath, I have yet to experience someone that appreciates the beauty of partaking. Not the traditions/ritual Sabbaths that man has so created. But a true Sabbath. I will be ever grateful for such experiences and the lessons taught during these times.
Then again bring up the Sabbath, the new say it is done away with. then you have let’s cherry pick the ten commandments, into they don’t apply anymore due to love fulfills all the laws. then grace versus works comes into conversation. Always a vicious circle. I tend to stay away from eon debates. As you know I don’t really post on the forums much. Life happens and well to say the least after so many years of it, nothing new is really being discussed.
I don’t know the reason why Heaven Net came to mind haven’t thought of it in months. I have come listen when my spirit lays something on my heart even it be for my own. I mean why does one need to establish Jesus is God? really? the only reason is due to that is the God they believe in and it must be justified for themselves. So it is to me ‘who you trying to convince me or you? Religion is so physical anymore…look at the book, it’s right there. Take the book away and then we will see what is your heart. Churches across the world have some form of watchtower they get their ‘lesson of the week from’ to teach of. When others say Oh that is what my church is talking about, they think it is the spirit bringing them together, when it is most likely a email.
Most recent is the use of EL, ELLA, ELOHIM, El is male, Ella is female and Elohim is androgynous. So much is out there to learn, then churning the same old thing over and over again I just cant handle it, muddles the mind. I’m not really worried about the end of times, know it is coming, know I have to be ready. Not worried about the names or titles. or how this verse proves this and that verse proves that and on and on and on and on. I need peace. That is what I strive for. Not want it, need it.
Sis and I were talking the other day we were discussing sin, so she creates a list of what sin is in the bible. Let me tell you Kerwin I had a lot of check marks on that list. Kerwin you would have to know my sister, she loves therapy, need I say more. So getting to the root of the matter she is relentless especially with me. I’m not the ‘let’s share our feelings type’ so you could only imagine what I must go through. Then as I am looking at the list I recall what was going on in my life, then sis started to do the same thing. Our conclusion was how much chaos we had going on in our lives at the time. We had no clear thought of how precious we are, how wonderfully and fearfully made we are, no unity. Just chaos.
It changed both of us. Chaos brings in all kind of nasty things. What is the opposite of chaos? Peace. How do you sin with peace on your heart? Well Kerwin that is my rant for the day. as always Kerwin.
Peter identifies Jesus as the stone of stumbling written about in scripture. In the OT scripture referred to, the Lord God calls the Lord of Hosts the stone of stumbling. See that here:
1 Peter 2:4 regarding Jesus as a living stone.
4And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
6For this is contained in Scripture:
“BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone,
AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”7This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve,
“THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED,
THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,”8and,
“A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”;
for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.Compare the above with this passage in Isaiah 8:
11For the LORD spoke thus to me with his strong hand upon me, and warned me not to walk in the way of this people, saying: 12“Do not call conspiracy all that this people calls conspiracy, and do not fear what they fear, nor be in dread. 13But the LORD of hosts, him you shall honor as holy. Let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14And he will become a sanctuary and a stone of offense and a rock of stumbling to both houses of Israel, a trap and a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15And many shall stumble on it. They shall fall and be broken; they shall be snared and taken.”
Hi LU,
Of course scripture refers to the Spirit filled man not a human vessel.
Men without the Spirit are as grass.
As Peter said
“ALL flesh is like grass,
And all it’s glory like the flower of grass.
The grass withers, and the flower falls off,
but the Word of the Lord endures forever”
Worldly inference is no help in grasping truth.
The Son is not the Father
I don’t see anything from you except opinion. I have given you many scriptures that defend YHVH as two who are one, the Father and the Son. You don’t seem to have the faith to see that the Lord of lords who is with the God of gods as YHVH could become flesh, resist temptation, walk rightly, suffer and die and be resurrected (for you and every one of us, btw). I can.
I really don’t think we are going to get anywhere until you have that faith. I suggest that you lay down your ideas and ask the Father to open your eyes to these things.
The Lord of lords is the exact representation of the nature of the God of gods. Hebrews 1.
In your view, the Lord of lords is completely different than the nature of the God of gods.
Hi LU,
Of course the God of Jesus Christ is the Father.
He is the one Who anointed Him and empowered the human vessel to do His work.
Nick, true, the Son is not the Father, and my post doesn’t suggest that He is.
In Isaiah 8, the LORD of hosts who is the stone of stumbling is not the LORD who is speaking. He is someone other than the one who is speaking to Isaiah. The Father is not sent as the stone of stumbling, the Father is not the cornerstone of the spiritual house. The Son is. The Son is the LORD of hosts that the LORD sends to be the cornerstone.
Nick, you completely miss that the Son is truly a son and who was in the beginning with God the Father and was God with the Father. Together they are God of gods and Lord of lords. That One who is the Lord of lords who laid the foundation of the earth and spread out the heavens with His hands, is the same one who emptied Himself to become flesh, was born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, suffered and died, was buried and rose again. The Lord of lords is once again with the God of gods in heaven as well as dwelling in believers by their Spirit.
Hi LU,
And as the Spirit of Christ said through Jesus in Jn8
“.. I proceeded forth and came from God.”
The word was with God and was God.
The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
Now the lord is the Spirit.
We will come to you
Hi LU,
It is all about the one Spirit that God has allowed us to see in two dimensions.
Almighty Father and servant Son.
@pinces.
I have to disagree Kerwin. Once the disciples turned to Jesus, they no longer were Jews,
That is absurd.
Jesus never stopped being a Jew, nor Paul. Peter, etc.
Instead you are repeating a teaching a teaching that comes out of the bigotry that certain so called Christians and Jews had for one another during the early centuries. It is a long time pass we should have gotten over that and consigned such false teachings into the flames.
The only difference between Jews and early Christians were some minor doctrinal differences and the fact that believed that Jesus was the Christ and the other did not.
The strange thing that Jesus spoke at that time.
The Sabbath does not apply to Gentiles. It is a gift God gave to the Jewish people.
Look up the seven laws of Noah on the web and see it is not mentioned.
LU,
I see you do mot know what the opinion means because you are misusing it.
It is quite easy James is not speaking an untruth when God cannot be tempted by evil but you imply he is by saying there is a way for God to be tempted by evil.
That is not an opinion; rather it is the bottom line.
Jewish religion states the messiah has not come yet. Any well respecting Jew of this era will tell you the same. They will say all the disciples & Christ were false prophets & they would not be considered a Jew. As times change so do the gods that can be found written in stone. What would make you think that yours hasn’t been tampered with?
Like I stated before, I have yet to come across someone who appreciates Sabbath.
Keep busy with all the defending, debating & pulling verse to defend your God. Deception is an understatement.
Hi LU, can you (or anyone) explain to me what ‘a begotten God’ is?
In my understanding, GOD is one… ‘A begotten God’ would be ‘A’nother God.
In fact, what exactly does the name, title or term, ‘God’ mean?
I think that the exposition of the word will give great insight into why there are so many trinitarian misunderstandings concerning such things as where a minstrel sings about King David, saying, ‘God said to my god…’ (First is almighty God: the Father. Second is the minstrel’s “god” – his King).
Let me lead on my thought: ‘God’ simply means, ‘Great and mighty person; a mighty hero on a contextual level; the ultimate head of a group…’ Indeed, a King is a ‘God’ to his subjects, a worthy Father is a ‘God’ to his family, a principal teacher is a ‘God’ to his staff members and attendant pupils.
Of course, the Spiritual ‘God’ is of a different and greater context to those on a human level – a deity is the term used here. But nonetheless, the base meaning of ‘God’ or properly, ‘a God’ is as I outlined previously.
Using the context I outlined then explains how the minstrel uses the title, ‘God’ to both a deity (Almighty God’) and to his King (David). Notice that no one ever confuses King David with Almighty God….! Yet… when the very same verse is applied to Jesus Christ many many persons (even those claiming great intelligence in language, genius capacity or spiritual wisdom) suddenly claim that Jesus Christ is being called ‘Almighty God’… Oops, no, sorry, they are CAREFUL NOT to say ‘Almighty God’ but say ‘God’ only – as if they know NOT to actually pain Jesus is THE ALMIGHTY GOD: The Father…
Little children, don’t be fooled by trinitarian delusion – read carefully what they actually say, not what they APPEAR to say…. Notice little nuances, minor alterations of text… Ask the question: ‘Id Jesus Wlmighty God’ and you will receive the answer like: ‘Now we know that God is three…so Jesus is the son of God…therefore he is God!’…
But excuse me but did the response answer the question: ‘Is Jesus ALMIGHTY GOD’… Of course not – and why did the context change but he responder if Reid trinity ideology is true… Why did they not answer with ‘Yes, Jesus is almighty God… ‘?
Something to ponder next time you confront a trinitarian with their raise ideology. … WATCH for the modified context; the ‘Let me first ask you w question’; the ‘First, understand the trinity creed where it says….’… Darlings, don’t be taken in by this devilish chess move!!!
Any well respecting Roman Catholic will tell you that Seven Day Adventists are not Christians and yet does that mean they are not.
In addition John labeled unbelieving Jews as being the synagogue of Satan and false claimants to Judaism. Jesus called his brothers who did not believe children of the devil and not the children of Abraham for they did not do as Abraham the father of their bodies did.
I do take the testimony of both John and Jesus as they judge by the fruit but not that of any of the rest as they are not creditable witnesses.
The Trinitarians did start a new religions as their God is not the God of Isaac, Jacob, pr Jesus.
The Jews finally admitted Samaritans are Jews even though their Scriptures differ and the later worships in a high place instead of in the temple. Jesus was more inclusive as were his disciples. Jesus went to the Samaritans as if he included them in the house of Israel and they were preached to by the apostles long before the later figured out that “all nations” included the Gentile inhabitants as well as the Jewish ones.
LU…..ALMIGHTY God (adonia) is. not JESUS, THAT ALMIGHTY GOD WAS HIS GOD ALSO,JUST AS HE IS OURS ALSO. DID Jesus not say he was going to “his” God and “our” God, his Father and our Father? You would have us believe Jesus went to himself, that he was the God of himself.
ANOTHER POINT IS your definition of the man is obvisely wrong because it dosen’t fit the specific scriotures written in 2Ths2, Jesus will abolish it by his own mouth, at his return it says, not at the end of the thousand year reign when Satan is released from the bottomless pit, AND AS FAR AS HIM being in men, who are the temples of GOD, THAT IS RIGHT, NOW ASK YOURSELF WHO IS BEING WORSHIPED AS A GOD IN YOU? IS IT NOT JESUS, YOU WORSHIP AS A GOD ALSO, SO THE MAN JESUS TAKES HIS SEAT IN YOUR HEART AS A GOD RIGHT?, THAT MEAN YOU YOURSELF ARE AN EXACT FULFILLMENT OF THOSE WORDS RIGHT?
YOU HAVE NOT looked up the meanings of the words LORD “ADONIA” AND lord “ADONI” HAVE YOU? You are trying to rob GOD of his glory BY MAKING Jesus EQUAL TO HIM, EVEN THOUGH Jesus said GOD the FATHER WAS GREATHER THEN HIM. Twisting scripture to meet false dogmas won’t work here LU. Jesunever said he was a God of anykind, but said this to “his” God, “for “thou” art the “only” “true” GOD”. NOW TELL ME SOMETHING WHICH PART OF THOSE WORDS YOU DO NOT BELIEVE , AND AGAIN the shama, “hear O Israel, the LORD our GOD is “one” LORD .
ALSO SCRIPTURE SAYS ” GOD IS “NOT” A MAN, THAT HE SHOULD LIE, NOR A SON OF MAN THAT HE SHOULD REPENT”. BUT Jesus said around 60 times he was a SON OF MAN. SOGOD SAY HE IS NOT A MAN AND JESUS SAYS HE IS A SON OF MAN, SEEMS YOU HAVE A DELIMA ON YOU HANDS to sort out.
peace and love to you and yours. …….gene
Nick,
Hi KW,
There is no longer Jew nor Greek in Christ Jesus.
You try to sit on the fence.
What passage of Scripture are you basing your words on?
Hi Jael,
You asked:
Hi LU, can you (or anyone) explain to me what ‘a begotten God’ is?
In my understanding, GOD is one… ‘A begotten God’ would be ‘A’nother God.
In fact, what exactly does the name, title or term, ‘God’ mean?
A central truth of the gospel is that Jesus is the only begotten son of God. I believe that He really is the only true son of God the Father and that He is the exact representation of the Father’s nature like a true son would be and like scripture says. The Father has an eternal nature and so must the Son in order to exactly represent the Father’s nature and be a true son. So, I believe in two eternal beings, one inside the other from eternity. At one point before creation, was begotten from the other. Because they have the same nature (eternal) they would both be unique and in authority over created beings that have an origin from them. The NT is clear that there were two beings involved in creation.
YHVH is the creator who created alone. YHVH defines Himself as the God of gods and the Lord of lords. I see that as a unity. Unities take singular pronouns often and singular verbs, sometimes a plural pronoun is used and sometimes a plural verb. Paul tells us that there is one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus Christ. John identifies Jesus as the Lord of lords. Peter identifies Jesus as the stone of stumbling that is the cornerstone of the spiritual house. Isaiah tells us that the name of the one who is the stone of stumbling is YHVH of hosts who was sent by YHVH. Jesus is identified as YHVH of hosts there.
Example of a unity taking a singular pronoun:
Hosea 4
17Ephraim is joined to idols;
Let him alone.We can know that Ephraim is more than one person here with a knowledge of scripture.
Now here is an example of two who are called God. One is the Son, the other is the Father:
John 1:18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
I see a perfect unity of two divine eternal beings in scripture…a Father and a Son. They act as one and often come across as one.
The word “god” takes on different meanings depending on contexts. The true God would be the creator. There were two involved in creation who alone created the heavens and the earth.
I hope that helps!
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