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throne means power and being a god of some kind also mean power over some thing ,if you like it or not t8
A throne from my understanding is an actual set of power. Does Jesus have a literal throne that he sits on?
I am guessing that the god of this world has one too, why wouldn’t he. But it is possible that he stands up all the time and directs his adherents without ever sitting down on a throne. However, Revelation says that his throne was in Pergamon. A weird thing to give a specific location if it doesn’t mean that. Your allegorical view here is that it means that it is not in Pergamon which seems strange to me because it mentions it. Your view is it mentions Pergamon but means it is not Pergamon. Strange logic at work here and I also have to ignore the super coincidental fact that the temple of Zeus was in this area and was the god that created the other gods and man. The temple of Zeus could have had Satan behind it. I think it was Paul that said those who worship idols actually worship the demon behind it.
Sorry, I cannot concur with your view. No need to reply either, unless you have additional support or a smoking gun. Otherwise it is just two people with a different view that could debate eternally about it and accomplish nothing.
The one who had the revelation saw that throne. He also saw the throne of those who reign with him.
You will find that nearly all governments have a literal seat of power. Those that do not are on the move all the time such as cultures and kingdoms like ISIS, or the Mongols. But even then, they probably have and had a seat, but just moved it around.
Paul tells us that those who worship idols worship the demon behind it. What do you think was behind the altar of Zeus? Remember that Zeus supposedly ruled as king of the gods, not just some obscure idol. I wouldn’t say for sure that the throne of Satan was that particular altar, but I certainly wouldn’t rule it out if I am to embrace biblical understanding regarding idols and demons.
Am I suggesting, then, that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God. And I do not want you to be participants with demons. You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot partake in the table of the Lord and the table of demons too.…
does God has a throne were he sits on ? i don’t believe so ,but does he reign with absolute power yes ,what John saw was shown to him so he could understand what he saw and tell it in a way that it could be understood,
the rest of your comment about demons and their worship versus God worship tells you that it is applied in a spiritual way with in some case physical actions,
scriptures says we must worship God in spirit and truth
The Father has a throne, but Jesus is seated upon it. The glory of God the eternal emanates from there and through the son.
The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing pat the right hand of God. And he said, “Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God.”
your scriptures you now showed are my foundation and some others,but i am sure you do not understand what it says at all except that you can read it for it is your language
Right, so this isn’t talking about a throne but is talking about something else?
The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne.
are you now subjecting that all those people that are granted to sit on Jesus or God throne are no equal to Jesus and God ?
That seems like a different and unrelated point you are making.
Back to the allegory. Because something is an allegory, it doesn’t rule out that it is not actually the case either.
You have no proof that Satan doesn’t have an actual throne, so I can only go by what scripture says.
To the angel of the church in Pergamum write:
‘I know where you dwell, where Satan’s throne is;You would have me believe that this means that Satan doesn’t have a throne in that area. You would have me believe that yes Pergamum is mentioned, but it doesn’t literally mean anything, especially not Pergamum. Thus all the other letters written to specific locations would also mean that they are not written to the people in that area. Such as:
- Ephesus
- Smyrna
- Pergamum
- Thyatira.
- Sardis
- Philadelphia
- Laodicea
At some point, you have to acknowledge that if John received a message from the Father to Christ, to the Angel, then addressing certain Churches probably means that they were directed to them at that time and to anyone else that is willing to learn from history. But your view has the implication that it is not literal that these places mean nothing. I find that a little disturbing myself.
t8
at the time of John receiving the vision to the seven churches ,where they the only churches on earth or even in the region ?did you ever study those 7 letters ? and compere all those letters to the teachings of Christ ?
John sent seven churches a message that existed in that day. It doesn’t say that it was all the Churches or some of them and it doesn’t matter. The letters were addressed to specific locations that existed. But you say this doesn’t matter as it is all an allegory. Thus he might as well have sent a message/letter to the Church of the moon because to you the locations matter not.
Okay, I will let you have the last word though so you will be happy. Feel free to make a post and put the words ‘last word’ in it.
I see the scriptures in the spiritual view of all the scriptures and so cannot reach you with your earthly views,
remember Nicodemus ?
So believing that each message to the seven churches as actually being a message to each of those churches is the earthly view?
Are you sure about that? Prove it. I am willing to view this proof.
the letters are open letters to all churches at that time and those to follow ,until the time of Jesus return (end of the age)
all are describing how to keep the true faith and the reward of it
They are addressed to specific churches because it clearly says so and each letter contains both praise and criticism unique to the works of each church. Of course, we learn from history and history repeats itself so today it speaks to us. This ties in nicely with our other discussion about learning from history. Thanks for your previous post as it allowed me to address both issues with the truth.
you seem to give more importance to the name than to the content of the letters ,for this reason you cannot understand the true message in them,
spiritual meaning as a clear understanding of what is of God and what is not of God ,it is for this reason that the devil could not understand God’s way
No that is not true. I only stress the name because that is what you are arguing about. I care little about the location myself as the importance of the location has faded away in history now. My previous post states that the message is important because we learn from history which is observing the mistakes and successes of others. My previous post rests two discussions we are having and ties them together in one answer for you. A wise man accepts instruction and truth while it is a fool and a proud man that despises it. I now await your opposition to my answer and stretch this out further than need be.
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