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2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: god knoweth;) such a one caught up to the third heaven.
12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Paul was not sure when telling the story if this man was “in the body, or out of the body” as it was over 14 years ago for him.The man he knew was alive and obviously given a vision, but would not say what he saw, only that he was caught up to the “third heaven” and also called this third heaven “paradise”. We also know that whatever this man heard, was not lawful to be repeated.
This one has always been a bit of a mystery.
So we learn now that if there's a “third heaven”, then there must be a first heaven, and a second heaven.This third heaven is referred to as “paradise”
Man has always referred to the Garden of Eden as “Paradise”, and I can't find much in scripture to indicate this, except for this one;
Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
We know in Genesis, the tree of life was planted in the Garden of Eden and God had angels to protect it.
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
This Garden of Eden would have to be in “Jerusalem”,… chosen from the beginning (despite what the “experts” say, Iraq?) And the tree of life would have to be “The Word of God”.
SO ALL THIS JUST FROM THE WORD “PARADISE” AS MENTIONED IN 2 CORINTHIANS?
EVERYTHING OPENS UP A CAN OF WORMS.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE READING LONG POSTS, OR PLENTY OF SCRIPTURE THEN CHANGE THE CHANEL, FOR OUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS SHOWING US SOMETHING HERE.Ezekiel 36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries; according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. (SPEAKING OF ISRAEL)
Ezekiel 36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. (ISRAEL, THE CHOSEN PEOPLE BROUGHT GOD SHAME)
Ezekiel; 36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. (WHERE-EVER ISRAEL WENT, NOT JUST THEN, BUT NOW ALSO, THEY HAVE GONE TO USA, CANANDA, IRAN, TURKEY, MORROCO, AFGANISTAN…AND GERMANY HAS THE THIRD LARGEST POPULATION OF JEWS IN WESTERN EUROPE (200,000), AFTER FRANCE (600,000) AND GREAT BRITAIN (300,00) ALSO IN THE SOVIET UNION, SO EVERYWHERE)
Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
Ezekiel 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (For those who think this already happened in 1948, think again when you read the next verse)
Ezekiel 36:25 then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.(WAS ISRAEL MADE CLEAN SINCE 1948?)
Ezekiel 36:26 A New heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.(ISRAEL STILL DENY JESUS CHRIST AS THE SON OF GOD)
EZEKIEL 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED YET?)
Ezekiel 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. (STILL TALKING TO PHYSICAL ISRAEL)
Ezekiel 36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses; and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
Ezekiel 36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
Ezekiel 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. (THEY DID NOT REALISE THIS IN 1948, AND STILL DO NOT REALISE THEY KILLED THEIR MESSIAH)
Ezekiel 36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you; be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. (THIS DAY IS COMING WHEN THEY WILL BE ASHAMED, THE SAME WILL HAPPEN TO CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE BEEN ASLEEP)
Ezekiel 36:33 Thus says the Lord GOD, In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. (THESE CITIES WILL BE RULED BY CHRIST & HIS KINGS AND PRIESTS)
Ezekiel 36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. (THIS LAND WAS SPIRITUALLY DESOLATE, AND ALSO DESTROYED BY THE ARMIES WHO COME IN TO WAR ON THE 6TH TRUMPET)
Ezekiel 36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. (FUTURE – 1000 YEAR REI
GN)
Ezekiel 36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.
Ezekiel 36:37 Thus saith the LORD GOD; I will yet, for this be inquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
Ezekiel 36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD. (SO THERE IS ANOTHER FLOCK TO COME IN DURING THE MILLENNIUM)So to sum it all up. The original Garden of Eden was a “Paradise”. (plentiful, beautiful, safe etc) The original garden had to be in Jerusalem, for that place was chosen from the beginning. The tree of life was in that same garden guarded by angels. Jerusalem now, will be destroyed by armies to come and when Christ returns, the land will be in heaps. Total devastation, but God said he will rebuild there, not only spiritually, but physically, and the Tree of Life will be there in Jerusalem and we christians have permission to feed on this tree now, for we are told that to have life, we must have Christ (the Word of God)
But the Jews have not been feeding on this tree of life but scriptures say they will be cleansed. So they will be allowed to feed there (learn of Christ) at the start of the millennium.…So this man who had a vision and was taken up to the third heaven, paradise, must of had his spirit taken into “the future”. He heard a man speak words to bad to utter, so if it's in the 1000 year time frame, he must of heard “Gog” speaking at the end of the thousand years (Israel still in paradise period) rounding up his armies?
I'm still working it out, but it seems to be getting clearer,
anyone have any better explanations?Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 26 2013,00:44) 2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: god knoweth;) such a one caught up to the third heaven.
12:3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
Paul was not sure when telling the story if this man was “in the body, or out of the body” as it was over 14 years ago for him.The man he knew was alive and obviously given a vision, but would not say what he saw, only that he was caught up to the “third heaven” and also called this third heaven “paradise”. We also know that whatever this man heard, was not lawful to be repeated.
This one has always been a bit of a mystery.
So we learn now that if there's a “third heaven”, then there must be a first heaven, and a second heaven.This third heaven is referred to as “paradise”
Man has always referred to the Garden of Eden as “Paradise”, and I can't find much in scripture to indicate this, except for this one;
Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
We know in Genesis, the tree of life was planted in the Garden of Eden and God had angels to protect it.
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Genesis 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
This Garden of Eden would have to be in “Jerusalem”,… chosen from the beginning (despite what the “experts” say, Iraq?) And the tree of life would have to be “The Word of God”.
SO ALL THIS JUST FROM THE WORD “PARADISE” AS MENTIONED IN 2 CORINTHIANS?
EVERYTHING OPENS UP A CAN OF WORMS.
IF YOU DON'T LIKE READING LONG POSTS, OR PLENTY OF SCRIPTURE THEN CHANGE THE CHANEL, FOR OUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS SHOWING US SOMETHING HERE.Ezekiel 36:19 And I scattered them among the heathen, and they were dispersed through the countries; according to their way and according to their doings I judged them. (SPEAKING OF ISRAEL)
Ezekiel 36:20 And when they entered unto the heathen, whither they went, they profaned my holy name, when they said to them, These are the people of the LORD, and are gone forth out of his land. (ISRAEL, THE CHOSEN PEOPLE BROUGHT GOD SHAME)
Ezekiel; 36:21 But I had pity for mine holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the heathen, whither they went. (WHERE-EVER ISRAEL WENT, NOT JUST THEN, BUT NOW ALSO, THEY HAVE GONE TO USA, CANANDA, IRAN, TURKEY, MORROCO, AFGANISTAN…AND GERMANY HAS THE THIRD LARGEST POPULATION OF JEWS IN WESTERN EUROPE (200,000), AFTER FRANCE (600,000) AND GREAT BRITAIN (300,00) ALSO IN THE SOVIET UNION, SO EVERYWHERE)
Ezekiel 36:22 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.
Ezekiel 36:23 And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.
Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. (For those who think this already happened in 1948, think again when you read the next verse)
Ezekiel 36:25 then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.(WAS ISRAEL MADE CLEAN SINCE 1948?)
Ezekiel 36:26 A New heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.(ISRAEL STILL DENY JESUS CHRIST AS THE SON OF GOD)
EZEKIEL 36:27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. (THIS HAS NOT HAPPENED YET?)
Ezekiel 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God. (STILL TALKING TO PHYSICAL ISRAEL)
Ezekiel 36:29 I will also save you from all your uncleannesses; and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.
Ezekiel 36:30 And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, and the increase of the field, that ye shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.
Ezekiel 36:31 Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations. (THEY DID NOT REALISE THIS IN 1948, AND STILL DO NOT REALISE THEY KILLED THEIR MESSIAH)
Ezekiel 36:32 Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you; be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. (THIS DAY IS COMING WHEN THEY WILL BE ASHAMED, THE SAME WILL HAPPEN TO CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE BEEN ASLEEP)
Ezekiel 36:33 Thus says the Lord GOD, In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. (THESE CITIES WILL BE RULED BY CHRIST & HIS KINGS AND PRIESTS)
Ezekiel 36:34 And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. (THIS LAND WAS SPIRITUALLY DESOLATE, AND ALSO DESTROYED BY THE ARMIES WHO COME IN TO WAR ON THE 6TH TRUMPET)
Ezekiel 36:35 And they shall say, This land th
at was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited. (FUTURE – 1000 YEAR REIGN)
Ezekiel 36:36 Then the heathen that are left round about you shall know that I the LORD build the ruined places, and plant that that was desolate: I the LORD have spoken it, and I will do it.
Ezekiel 36:37 Thus saith the LORD GOD; I will yet, for this be inquired of by the house of Israel, to do it for them; I will increase them with men like a flock.
Ezekiel 36:38 As the holy flock, as the flock of Jerusalem in her solemn feasts; so shall the waste cities be filled with flocks of men: and they shall know that I am the LORD. (SO THERE IS ANOTHER FLOCK TO COME IN DURING THE MILLENNIUM)So to sum it all up. The original Garden of Eden was a “Paradise”. (plentiful, beautiful, safe etc) The original garden had to be in Jerusalem, for that place was chosen from the beginning. The tree of life was in that same garden guarded by angels. Jerusalem now, will be destroyed by armies to come and when Christ returns, the land will be in heaps. Total devastation, but God said he will rebuild there, not only spiritually, but physically, and the Tree of Life will be there in Jerusalem and we christians have permission to feed on this tree now, for we are told that to have life, we must have Christ (the Word of God)
But the Jews have not been feeding on this tree of life but scriptures say they will be cleansed. So they will be allowed to feed there (learn of Christ) at the start of the millennium.…So this man who had a vision and was taken up to the third heaven, paradise, must of had his spirit taken into “the future”. He heard a man speak words to bad to utter, so if it's in the 1000 year time frame, he must of heard “Gog” speaking at the end of the thousand years (Israel still in paradise period) rounding up his armies?
I'm still working it out, but it seems to be getting clearer,
anyone have any better explanations?
Excellent journey,but some will say it is your own composition and your own made up story.
The scales are in the eyes for some.
Remember: The land is desolate.wakeup.
I think that the bad words uttered would be amongst the
none believers. The mockers,blasphemers. We have them in these days also.wakeup.
Journey, Wakeup, and anyone else that is concerned,
Quote
Paul was not sure when telling the story if this man was “in the body, or out of the body” as it was over 14 years ago for him.That is an untruth told among men.
The man was in Christ when it occurred and Paul was not in Christ until after his experience on the road to Damascus.
Paul did not ascend to heaven on the road to Damascus.
Paul said he knew this man.
Paul said “Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory…”
Is Paul the one he will glory or is it another man he will glory?
Journey,
Quote The man he knew was alive and obviously given a vision, but would not say what he saw, only that he was caught up to the “third heaven” and also called this third heaven “paradise”. We also know that whatever this man heard, was not lawful to be repeated. This part I agree with. An addition is that Paul expressed his lack of knowledge whether or not a body ascended to the the third heaven which at the most means he did not know that a living body could not ascend to the third heaven.
j42/w
Quote So to sum it all up. The original Garden of Eden was a “Paradise”. (plentiful, beautiful, safe etc) The original garden had to be in Jerusalem, for that place was chosen from the beginning. The tree of life was in that same garden guarded by angels. Jerusalem now, will be destroyed by armies to come and when Christ returns, the land will be in heaps. Total devastation, but God said he will rebuild there, not only spiritually, but physically, and the Tree of Life will be there in Jerusalem and we christians have permission to feed on this tree now, for we are told that to have life, we must have Christ (the Word of God)
But the Jews have not been feeding on this tree of life but scriptures say they will be cleansed. So they will be allowed to feed there (learn of Christ) at the start of the millennium.…So this man who had a vision and was taken up to the third heaven, paradise, must of had his spirit taken into “the future”. He heard a man speak words to bad to utter, so if it's in the 1000 year time frame, he must of heard “Gog” speaking at the end of the thousand years (Israel still in paradise period) rounding up his armies?
I'm still working it out, but it seems to be getting clearer,
anyone have any better explanations?all this is rerun of all the other quotes you have already made else ware ;
I do not kick a dead horse ,,,,
Journey,
Quote
Man has always referred to the Garden of Eden as “Paradise”, and I can't find much in scripture to indicate this, except for this one;You support the idea that Eden is called Paradise in Scripture but you did not test if that word paradise is reserved to Eden or if it is used for other places.
Journey,
Quote …So this man who had a vision and was taken up to the third heaven, paradise, must of had his spirit taken into “the future”. He heard a man speak words to bad to utter, so if it's in the 1000 year time frame, he must of heard “Gog” speaking at the end of the thousand years (Israel still in paradise period) rounding up his armies? Paul was not certain if the man was taken to the third heaven in body or out of body so is it wise to be certain he was taken the spirit?
Why do you believe this speaks of the future as I see no evidence of that is the words “caught up ” but instead see that the man was elevated to a higher place?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,04:23) Journey, Wakeup, and anyone else that is concerned, Quote
Paul was not sure when telling the story if this man was “in the body, or out of the body” as it was over 14 years ago for him.That is an untruth told among men.
The man was in Christ when it occurred and Paul was not in Christ until after his experience on the road to Damascus.
Paul did not ascend to heaven on the road to Damascus.
Paul said he knew this man.
Paul said “Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory…”
Is Paul the one he will glory or is it another man he will glory?
KerwinWe need not to add anything to the story. It's simple. Paul knew a man over 14 years ago. Whether in the body or out of the body, Paul didn't know, but this man was caught up to the third heaven.
I'm confused as to why you would say that is an untruth told among men?What is this third heaven, also called paradise by Paul? That is the question.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2013,01:12) Excellent journey,but some will say it is your own composition and your own made up story.
The scales are in the eyes for some.
Remember: The land is desolate.wakeup.
Ezekiel 36:35 And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities are become fenced, and are inhabited.This is the verse that mentions a place that shall become like the garden of Eden. No place on this earth can compare to that same Garden, not just in it's beauty, but in peace.
God was specifically speaking to Israel. So this place is in Israel. Jesus is coming again to rule in Jerusalem. This must be the place that will be changed. This place is where the “tree of life” was originally planted, and will be there again according to the scriptures. So this must be Eden.This place called the third heaven, is also called paradise. There is a new paradise coming, and it is “rebuilt” so if it is rebuilt, then it must of existed before.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,04:59) Journey, Quote …So this man who had a vision and was taken up to the third heaven, paradise, must of had his spirit taken into “the future”. He heard a man speak words to bad to utter, so if it's in the 1000 year time frame, he must of heard “Gog” speaking at the end of the thousand years (Israel still in paradise period) rounding up his armies? Paul was not certain if the man was taken to the third heaven in body or out of body so is it wise to be certain he was taken the spirit?
Why do you believe this speaks of the future as I see no evidence of that is the words “caught up ” but instead see that the man was elevated to a higher place?
KerwinCaught up, meaning not ascended.
If we start picking on the wording, then we will not see the picture, there is something bigger here Kerwin than the word caught up.I believe this speaks of the future because of the scriptures I gave. You have to read them to connect the dots.
Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 26 2013,04:32) all this is rerun of all the other quotes you have already made else ware ; I do not kick a dead horse ,,,,
Then don't join in Pierre,No one is asking for your opinion. We are here to discuss this mystery, and I have given scripture to present my case.
Only those interested in solving the puzzle can put in their two cents worth, as long as it means something that can help.If anyone can honestly say that those scriptures I gave have already come to pass or mean something else, then you are desperately lacking truth, because those scriptures prove your theory wrong and make our case even stronger for it is the Word of God.
Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 26 2013,04:52) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,04:23) Journey, Wakeup, and anyone else that is concerned, Quote
Paul was not sure when telling the story if this man was “in the body, or out of the body” as it was over 14 years ago for him.That is an untruth told among men.
The man was in Christ when it occurred and Paul was not in Christ until after his experience on the road to Damascus.
Paul did not ascend to heaven on the road to Damascus.
Paul said he knew this man.
Paul said “Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory…”
Is Paul the one he will glory or is it another man he will glory?
KerwinWe need not to add anything to the story. It's simple. Paul knew a man over 14 years ago. Whether in the body or out of the body, Paul didn't know, but this man was caught up to the third heaven.
I'm confused as to why you would say that is an untruth told among men?What is this third heaven, also called paradise by Paul? That is the question.
Journey,Scripture does not tell us what the third heaven is as it is from a extra bible teaching that was among the Jews and Christians of the First Century. The one I have heard of is the Seven Heavens doctrine and the Garden of Eden was removed to Shehaqim, which is the third heaven. The Land of the Dead is there as well. It is mentioned in the book of Enoch according to Wikipedia's article on the Seven Heavens. There is evidence that Paul was using the Apocalypse of Moses as a source or at least teaching that volume also uses variations of. I found this out by Wikipedia's article on the Third Heaven.
Obviously there is some truth in both the Book of 1st Enoch and the Apocalypse of Moses but I hold that neither are the word of God.
There is a third heaven and most like Eden was moved to it by God but I doubt Hell is also in it as one descends to Hell.
Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 26 2013,05:08) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,04:59) Journey, Quote …So this man who had a vision and was taken up to the third heaven, paradise, must of had his spirit taken into “the future”. He heard a man speak words to bad to utter, so if it's in the 1000 year time frame, he must of heard “Gog” speaking at the end of the thousand years (Israel still in paradise period) rounding up his armies? Paul was not certain if the man was taken to the third heaven in body or out of body so is it wise to be certain he was taken the spirit?
Why do you believe this speaks of the future as I see no evidence of that is the words “caught up ” but instead see that the man was elevated to a higher place?
KerwinCaught up, meaning not ascended.
If we start picking on the wording, then we will not see the picture, there is something bigger here Kerwin than the word caught up.I believe this speaks of the future because of the scriptures I gave. You have to read them to connect the dots.
Journey,Actually they do though one is an action committed by the subject and another is an action committed on the subject. The bottom line is than in each case the subject is moves from a lower place to a higher place. That is what I intended to show by using ascended.
Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 26 2013,04:52) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,04:23) Journey, Wakeup, and anyone else that is concerned, Quote
Paul was not sure when telling the story if this man was “in the body, or out of the body” as it was over 14 years ago for him.That is an untruth told among men.
The man was in Christ when it occurred and Paul was not in Christ until after his experience on the road to Damascus.
Paul did not ascend to heaven on the road to Damascus.
Paul said he knew this man.
Paul said “Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory…”
Is Paul the one he will glory or is it another man he will glory?
KerwinWe need not to add anything to the story. It's simple. Paul knew a man over 14 years ago. Whether in the body or out of the body, Paul didn't know, but this man was caught up to the third heaven.
I'm confused as to why you would say that is an untruth told among men?What is this third heaven, also called paradise by Paul? That is the question.
Journey,I fine with not adding anything to the story. That is what I am convinced people do when they say Paul is speaking of himself despite evidence to the contrary.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,10:35) Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 26 2013,04:52) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,04:23) Journey, Wakeup, and anyone else that is concerned, Quote
Paul was not sure when telling the story if this man was “in the body, or out of the body” as it was over 14 years ago for him.That is an untruth told among men.
The man was in Christ when it occurred and Paul was not in Christ until after his experience on the road to Damascus.
Paul did not ascend to heaven on the road to Damascus.
Paul said he knew this man.
Paul said “Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory…”
Is Paul the one he will glory or is it another man he will glory?
KerwinWe need not to add anything to the story. It's simple. Paul knew a man over 14 years ago. Whether in the body or out of the body, Paul didn't know, but this man was caught up to the third heaven.
I'm confused as to why you would say that is an untruth told among men?What is this third heaven, also called paradise by Paul? That is the question.
Journey,Scripture does not tell us what the third heaven is as it is from a extra bible teaching that was among the Jews and Christians of the First Century. The one I have heard of is the Seven Heavens doctrine and the Garden of Eden was removed to Shehaqim, which is the third heaven. The Land of the Dead is there as well. It is mentioned in the book of Enoch according to Wikipedia's article on the Seven Heavens. There is evidence that Paul was using the Apocalypse of Moses as a source or at least teaching that volume also uses variations of. I found this out by Wikipedia's article on the Third Heaven.
Obviously there is some truth in both the Book of 1st Enoch and the Apocalypse of Moses but I hold that neither are the word of God.
There is a third heaven and most like Eden was moved to it by God but I doubt Hell is also in it as one descends to Hell.
Sure Kerwin;everytime pressure comes,just say that was not originally in the bible.
It has been added by the scribes.
Where can we draw the line?
This is exactly how the muslems coduct themsleves re' Jesus
and other scriptures.Lets throw all the bibles in the trash.
And lets worship our own desires,for only that is genuine.
Good; free for all.wakeup.
I personally believe that Paradise is the part outside the City of God. It has mansions 'dwellings' and the river of life that flows from the throne of God and into the city then flows into paradise. Eden was so named Paradise because it is an image of Paradise. While there was likely rivers of water in Eden, in the Heavenly Paradise there is the river of life.
TREE OF LIFE.
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, **and they are life**.
THE WORD OF GOD IS SPIRIT; THE WORD OF GOD IS LIFE.
JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD,IN THE FLESH.NOW SPIRIT.
EATING HIS FLESH IS LIFE GIVING.THE TREE OF LIFE WAS IN THE MIDS OF THE GARDEN FOR ADAM AND EVE TO EAT; IF THEY FOLLOW GODS COMMAND.
THE WORD OF GOD IN THE FORM OF A PHYSICAL FRUITING TREE.THAT TREE MUST HAVE BEEN SITUATED IN JERUSALEM.
MT MORIAH; IN THE RIGHT SPOT WHERE THE TEMPLE WAS.
RIGHT IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES,BEHIND THE CURTAIN.IN THE MIDS OF THE GARDEN.
Revelation 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
THE JEWS AND GENTILES WILL HAVE THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE IN THE EATING OF THE TREE OF LIFE IN THE COMING PARADISE.(EATIG OF THE WORD OF GOD).
THE SAINTS HAVE EATEN OF THE TREE OF LIFE.
THEY HAVE KNOWLEDGE,AND HAVE FOLLOWED THE LAMB WHERESOEVER HE GOETH.Revelation 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
THE LEAVES ARE FOR THE HEALING OF **THE NATIONS* OUTSIDE.(NATIONS WITH NO DOMINIONS);FOR THE HEALING OF THE SPIRIT.
Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
IF ONE DO THE COMMANDMENTS HE CAN ENTER INTO PARADISE AND PARTICIPATE IN THE TEACHINGS OF CHRIST.
AND GIVEN LIFE AFTER THE SECOND RESURRECTION.
PARADISE = NEW JERUSALEM.wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 26 2013,15:20) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,10:35) Quote (journey42 @ Dec. 26 2013,04:52) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2013,04:23) Journey, Wakeup, and anyone else that is concerned, Quote
Paul was not sure when telling the story if this man was “in the body, or out of the body” as it was over 14 years ago for him.That is an untruth told among men.
The man was in Christ when it occurred and Paul was not in Christ until after his experience on the road to Damascus.
Paul did not ascend to heaven on the road to Damascus.
Paul said he knew this man.
Paul said “Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory…”
Is Paul the one he will glory or is it another man he will glory?
KerwinWe need not to add anything to the story. It's simple. Paul knew a man over 14 years ago. Whether in the body or out of the body, Paul didn't know, but this man was caught up to the third heaven.
I'm confused as to why you would say that is an untruth told among men?What is this third heaven, also called paradise by Paul? That is the question.
Journey,Scripture does not tell us what the third heaven is as it is from a extra bible teaching that was among the Jews and Christians of the First Century. The one I have heard of is the Seven Heavens doctrine and the Garden of Eden was removed to Shehaqim, which is the third heaven. The Land of the Dead is there as well. It is mentioned in the book of Enoch according to Wikipedia's article on the Seven Heavens. There is evidence that Paul was using the Apocalypse of Moses as a source or at least teaching that volume also uses variations of. I found this out by Wikipedia's article on the Third Heaven.
Obviously there is some truth in both the Book of 1st Enoch and the Apocalypse of Moses but I hold that neither are the word of God.
There is a third heaven and most like Eden was moved to it by God but I doubt Hell is also in it as one descends to Hell.
Sure Kerwin;everytime pressure comes,just say that was not originally in the bible.
It has been added by the scribes.
Where can we draw the line?
This is exactly how the muslems coduct themsleves re' Jesus
and other scriptures.Lets throw all the bibles in the trash.
And lets worship our own desires,for only that is genuine.
Good; free for all.wakeup.
Wakeup,I have no idea what you are addressing as I did not say anything that is actually is in Scripture is not in Scripture. There are certainly parts that were more likely inserted later but even those I seek to interpret in accordance with the truth though I try not to use them as proof text. If you have a different opinion of 1 Enoch and or the Apocalypse of Moses and that is what you are speaking of then please be more explicit.
Quote (t8 @ Dec. 26 2013,15:31) I personally believe that Paradise is the part outside the City of God. It has mansions 'dwellings' and the river of life that flows from the throne of God and into the city then flows into paradise. Eden was so named Paradise because it is an image of Paradise. While there was likely rivers of water in Eden, in the Heavenly Paradise there is the river of life.
T8,Perhaps.
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